[PGT] Vegas Golden Knights at Vancouver Canucks | Mar. 09, 2019

[Tyndall2]

Got to agree with Cpt Canuck 16 that we seldom see our players, other than the odd rush by Biega or Stetcher, carry the puck into the opposition end along with their fellow forwards.  90% dump and chase and tip 100 foot passes and get off the ice.  Sorry this is what you do when you are ahead in the game with 5 minutes left not from the get go.

And Edler--totally lost out there.  He is making Pouliot look good!  Our whole backend needs a major overhaul.  

[oldnews]

7 minutes ago, CptCanuck16 said:

So how many other teams do you see that continually circle back into their own zone or attempt to make 100ft passes up the boards because their is no other passing options. Why do all 4 of our lines consistently play this way? Because of injuries? Because they have no talent?  Nope, it's the system TG has them playing. All the fwds rush up and stand at the blue line while the puck carrier gets swarmed in the D zone and is forced to make a bad stretch pass that doesn't work the majority of the time. When it does work the forwards aren't gaining the zone with any speed as they were literally standing still before accepting the pass. They immediately get swarmed by the D and either dump it to the corner or turn it over at the line.

 

It's so glaringly obvious. They repeat this game after game, shift after shift. How can anyone say that this isn't the style that TG wants them to play? I don't hear him complaining about it but rather commending them game after game on the podium for playing exactly how he wants them to play.

cool story.

 

I can tell the difference between this team when it was healthy and competing in the playoff race - when not a single person was whinging about 'the system'  - and the present half replacement roster with a blueline treading water and at times, bordering on harm reduction hockey.

 

Anecdotes / situational stories like you're engaging in don't register for me, sorry. 

 

It's going to be replacement hockey for the most part down the stretch - don't mistake that for what the roster will look like next opening night.  Just buckle your seatbelts for a decent pick at the draft they host.  If they intended to compete for a playoff spot they wouldn't have left spots to placeholders like Luke Schenn down the stretch.

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

PRACTICE | Travis Green

 

[CptCanuck16]

29 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Anecdotes / situational stories like you're engaging in don't register for me, sorry.

Lol, do you even watch the games?  Every time the D recovers the puck in our zone the forwards immediately skate away and go stand at the O zone blue line. Virtually every time. Pay attention next game, you'll see what I'm talking about. It's glaringly obvious.

 

On a successful team, instead of skating away from the puck carrier the three forwards skate up the ice with him providing support and multiple passing options. This method allows the team to break into the O zone at speed, with possession, while causing the opposition to back off and give them space because there are multiple passing options.  When a player is all alone it's very easy to pressure him to cough up the puck.

 

 

[riffraff]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

yeah - but Tanev is probably the best transition defenseman the team has - in the sense that he's a borderline elite puck retriever who turns and makes that first pass as consistently and reliably as anyone.

 

I'm not necessarily against moving one of Edler or Tanev - but I don't think the team can afford to, or will walk away from Edler (probably not going to find better value in free agency and an additional advantage in re-signing him is that you can get 'transitional' term - ie half the term you'd have to commit to other targets.

 

Where Tanev is concerned, I'd be willing to move him - if there's a young RHD principal as the return - ie if Tampa for example sent us a Cernak type - then ok - or otherwise if they were able to land a reasonable replacement in free agency.   Even if they signed a Stralman under the present circumstances, imo they'd need another RHD in any event.

 

But as a baseline, given the assets they have and assuming Edler re-signs, I think they're realistically only one or two signings from filling in a reasonably competitive roster = one Stralman and perhaps a depth Petrovic or Sbisa and I think that blueline is entirely serviceable enough in another transition year.   That shoud be enough suport for the higher end guys they have coming in imo.....and they could either middle along with a respectable season, or if the Hughes/Juolevi types excel - they could surprise a few people.

Agree on the context of “transition year”

 

mostly becuase if the the alternative is signing a pricy FA I don’t think it’s the right time for that imo - be it a panarin or a karlsson.

[steviewonder20]

It was my first game in three years. It was a lot of money to see us get spanked. It was also a tale of two teams: one that can get out of their own end, and one that can’t; one that provides puck support and one that doesn’t; one that stands up at the blue line and one that doesn’t; one that passed crisply and one that didn’t. We have a ways to go and I hope the draft, dumping dead weight for picks and UFAs get us closer. Demko looked good.

[oldnews]

13 minutes ago, CptCanuck16 said:

Lol, do you even watch the games?

good discussion - that's evidently reached it's conclusion.

g'day.

[shiznak]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Pouliot looks like he had the least of the problems - 14% ozone starts, 55.9% corsi.

Looks like Edler/Stech had a tougher night - and Gaudette (who it would not be surprising if he struggles in his role in the absence of half a blueline and Sutter = no easy task to step into 3rd line minutes under these circumstances).

 

 

Didn’t see the game as well, only saw highlights, but from an “analytics” standpoint. Pouliot was our best defensemen.

 

Ice-time: 20:00

Corsi: 56%

off. zone start: 14%

scoring chance against: 8 (tied for least of our defencemen with Sautner who only played 13 minutes.)

scoring chance for: 10

High-end scoring chance against: 3 (only Sautner had less)

High-end scoring chance for: 5

 

However, he did have two turnovers, with a minus one rating......so the loss falls on him.

[TheCammer]

7 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Didn’t see the game as well, only saw highlights, but from an “analytics” standpoint. Pouliot was our best defensemen.

 

Ice-time: 20:00

Corsi: 56%

off. zone start: 14%

scoring chance against: 8 (tied for least of our defencemen with Sautner who only played 13 minutes.)

scoring chance for: 10

High-end scoring chance against: 3 (only Sautner had less)

High-end scoring chance for: 5

 

However, he did have two turnovers, with a minus one rating......so the loss falls on him.

He was , as he often is despite the hate he gets on CDC.

[Angry Goose]

2 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

It is difficult to watch the tire fire that is the Canucks right now.

 

Not sure what Benning needs to do this summer to make this a team. Obviously they need 2-3 more actual top 6 players. They only have 3.

 

The defense is trash. How does Benning deal with that? He has not done well so far changing up this crap defense.

 

Boy o boy.

maybe youve heard but weisbrod made it pretty clear that the defense is going to be a top priority for them this off season. 

 

I sad it elsewhere but I think this season was one to see what they had with certain players, and now with a good idea in mind they can tweak the roster for next season and hopefully improve.  The players with ??? around them though will be guys like Leivo/Virtanen/Gaudette/Goldobin/Hughes/Juolevi etc.  These are guys that can make a big difference results wise if their development takes bigger steps next year.  

I like the mix this group has, and of course it has its short comings too.  If you think about it 3/4 of this roster are guys that havnt really established themselves and need to keep getting better

[TheCammer]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

cool story.

 

I can tell the difference between this team when it was healthy and competing in the playoff race - when not a single person was whinging about 'the system'  - and the present half replacement roster with a blueline treading water and at times, bordering on harm reduction hockey.

 

Anecdotes / situational stories like you're engaging in don't register for me, sorry. 

 

It's going to be replacement hockey for the most part down the stretch - don't mistake that for what the roster will look like next opening night.  Just buckle your seatbelts for a decent pick at the draft they host.  If they intended to compete for a playoff spot they wouldn't have left spots to placeholders like Luke Schenn down the stretch.

 

I wouldn't say it was necessarily the system that is in question but last night the forwards were all exceptionally high on the breakout. I can think of at least 15 instances last night where the D had literally no first pass options. It's fine to run a few guys high on the breakout if they are moving there feet and looking for open ice. Last night I kept seeing three forwards north of centre either checked or standing still.

 

The only thing worse than the breakout last night was our futile attempts to clear in front of our net. Lots of standing around watching Knights score. At the end of the night I doubt a single Knight player had a boo boo from going to the front of the net. It was literally the worst effort of the season.

 

I'm not putting last night on Green but his team was not prepared to play at all last night.

[oldnews]

26 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Didn’t see the game as well, only saw highlights, but from an “analytics” standpoint. Pouliot was our best defensemen.

 

Ice-time: 20:00

Corsi: 56%

off. zone start: 14%

scoring chance against: 8 (tied for least of our defencemen with Sautner who only played 13 minutes.)

scoring chance for: 10

High-end scoring chance against: 3 (only Sautner had less)

High-end scoring chance for: 5

 

However, he did have two turnovers, with a minus one rating......so the loss falls on him.

Yeah - I'm going to give Pouliot the same leeway I did Hutton last year.

 

Last year I felt that MDZ clearly outplayed Hutton - but I said at the time that I'd move MDZ in a heartbeat over Hutton.

Likewise, Pouliot has a very good, young toolbox with his weakness being correctible errors - the type that can drive coaches nuts because they're 'mental' to an extent - but I'm nowhere near ready to give up on Pouliot - I like his skating a lot, I like his vision and puck moving and I like his soild center of gravity and ability to maintain coverage.  I also think he  takes some well-timed, good risks defensively.  His puck moving struggles under pressure are something I think he can improve on, but it's also a context/team issue as well, and I think he can get over it.   Whether the team is too rich in LHD for him to compete may be the main question.

[theo5789]

49 minutes ago, CptCanuck16 said:

Lol, do you even watch the games?  Every time the D recovers the puck in our zone the forwards immediately skate away and go stand at the O zone blue line. Virtually every time. Pay attention next game, you'll see what I'm talking about. It's glaringly obvious.

 

On a successful team, instead of skating away from the puck carrier the three forwards skate up the ice with him providing support and multiple passing options. This method allows the team to break into the O zone at speed, with possession, while causing the opposition to back off and give them space because there are multiple passing options.  When a player is all alone it's very easy to pressure him to cough up the puck.

 

 

 

[canuck73_3]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Yeah - I'm going to give Pouliot the same leeway I did Hutton last year.

 

Last year I felt that MDZ clearly outplayed Hutton - but I said at the time that I'd move MDZ in a heartbeat over Hutton.

Likewise, Pouliot has a very good, young toolbox with his weakness being correctible errors - the type that can drive coaches nuts because they're 'mental' to an extent - but I'm nowhere near ready to give up on Pouliot - I like his skating a lot, I like his vision and puck moving and I like his soild center of gravity and ability to maintain coverage.  I also think he  takes some well-timed, good risks defensively.  His puck moving struggles under pressure are something I think he can improve on, but it's also a context/team issue as well, and I think he can get over it.   Whether the team is too rich in LHD for him to compete may be the main question.

What I find funny in all this is all summer we heard “let them play the rookies and young guys and let them make mistakes” Yet when they do save for Pettersson they should be traded or the coach should be fired. Even Boeser hasn't escaped the impatient tankers wrath. 

[CptCanuck16]

14 minutes ago, TheCammer said:

I wouldn't say it was necessarily the system that is in question but last night the forwards were all exceptionally high on the breakout. I can think of at least 15 instances last night where the D had literally no first pass options. It's fine to run a few guys high on the breakout if they are moving there feet and looking for open ice. Last night I kept seeing three forwards north of centre either checked or standing still.

 

The only thing worse than the breakout last night was our futile attempts to clear in front of our net. Lots of standing around watching Knights score. At the end of the night I doubt a single Knight player had a boo boo from going to the front of the net. It was literally the worst effort of the season.

 

I'm not putting last night on Green but his team was not prepared to play at all last night.

It wasn't just last night. The team has been playing this way for awhile now. Even in the game they won against TO they played the same style. I've noticed it for at least the last 20 games. 

[shiznak]

22 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Yeah - I'm going to give Pouliot the same leeway I did Hutton last year.

 

Last year I felt that MDZ clearly outplayed Hutton - but I said at the time that I'd move MDZ in a heartbeat over Hutton.

Likewise, Pouliot has a very good, young toolbox with his weakness being correctible errors - the type that can drive coaches nuts because they're 'mental' to an extent - but I'm nowhere near ready to give up on Pouliot - I like his skating a lot, I like his vision and puck moving and I like his soild center of gravity and ability to maintain coverage.  I also think he  takes some well-timed, good risks defensively.  His puck moving struggles under pressure are something I think he can improve on, but it's also a context/team issue as well, and I think he can get over it.   Whether the team is too rich in LHD for him to compete may be the main question.

I would say most of his costly errors that results in a goal is just bad puck luck or him not able to out-muscle his opponents. For instance, the first goal against Edmonton; 9 out of 10 times the puck would have gotten through the forechecker, but the one time it doesn’t, it just happens to be Pouliot who tries to make the play. The goal against San Jose, Marleau out worked him and the puck was in his feet, where Roussel couldn’t poke it to the hash-boards. It was really a nothing play, that resulted into a goal. The goal against Anaheim, he missed fire. Again, bad puck luck.

 

Despite all this and all the bad turnovers he has made. He’s still an even player on this team. A team that ranks in the top 10 in goals against. Playing top 4 minutes for half the season.

[40Dangles]

4 hours ago, beauskee said:

Look at what happened with Milan lucic. Very similar trajectory. Size and banging bodies slows you down much faster. 

Ferland is a much better skater than Lucic ever has been.  He's fast and is not a 'lethargic/heavy skater'. He's more Tom Wilson than he is Milan Lucic

[canuck73_3]

4 minutes ago, shiznak said:

I would say most of his costly errors that results in a goal is just bad puck luck or him not able to out-muscle his opponents. For instance, the first goal against Edmonton; 9 out of 10 times the puck would have gotten through the forechecker, but the one time it doesn’t, it just happens to be Pouliot who tries to make the play. The goal against San Jose, Marleau out worked him and the puck was in his feet, where Roussel couldn’t poke it to the hash-boards. It was really a nothing play, that resulted into a goal. The goal against Anaheim, he missed fire. Again, bad puck luck.

 

Despite all this and all the bad turnovers he has made. He’s still an even player on this team. A team that ranks in the top 10 in goals against. Playing top 4 minutes for half the season.

I don't expect much knowledge and understanding of the game from people who jump to calling someone “poo a lot” 

 

I prefer even keeled analysis and context like this compared whatever goes on in the lowest common denominator’s collective heads. 

[riffraff]

1 hour ago, CptCanuck16 said:

Lol, do you even watch the games?  Every time the D recovers the puck in our zone the forwards immediately skate away and go stand at the O zone blue line. Virtually every time. Pay attention next game, you'll see what I'm talking about. It's glaringly obvious.

 

On a successful team, instead of skating away from the puck carrier the three forwards skate up the ice with him providing support and multiple passing options. This method allows the team to break into the O zone at speed, with possession, while causing the opposition to back off and give them space because there are multiple passing options.  When a player is all alone it's very easy to pressure him to cough up the puck.

 

 

The team you see now wasn’t the team early in the season when puck movement up the ice was taking a lot of teams by surprise.  If you’re watching the games now I assume you were watching then.

[CptCanuck16]

52 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

 

Funny, but no I am referring to a break out style that winning teams use such as the Pens.