The right to bare arms......not really, this thread officially hijacked...it's all 'Edumacation' chat now.

[-DLC-]

4 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

 

Being good at math is a life skill, not just a job skill. Math is pure logical reasoning. Being able to do math well, automatically shows that your brain is trained in logic, in isolating data, correlation, causation, governing phenomena vs ancillary phenomena of a complex dynamic, etc. Math to your brain is what lifting weights to your muscles are. Any education system that makes math lax, suffers from producing people who are not very strong in their rational, empirical and logical skills. As we see today with vast majority of Canadians.

I'd like to see supporting evidence of this.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

 

Being good at math is a life skill, not just a job skill. Math is pure logical reasoning. Being able to do math well, automatically shows that your brain is trained in logic, in isolating data, correlation, causation, governing phenomena vs ancillary phenomena of a complex dynamic, etc. Math to your brain is what lifting weights to your muscles are. Any education system that makes math lax, suffers from producing people who are not very strong in their rational, empirical and logical skills. As we see today with vast majority of Canadians.

yeah ok man  

 

I used to think you just had some outside the box views, but i realize now that you're just a dude with a chip on his shoulder. To brush all Canadians with that comment is laughable. 

[canuckistani]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah ok man  

 

I used to think you just had some outside the box views, but i realize now that you're just a dude with a chip on his shoulder. To brush all Canadians with that comment is laughable. 

Sorry i should've said vast majority of the younger Canadians who are graduating from the diluted schooling systems now compared to what the 40+ generation went through. 

[JM_]

Just now, canuckistani said:

Sorry i should've said vast majority of the younger Canadians who are graduating from the diluted schooling systems now compared to what the 40+ generation went through. 

equally ridiculous. Young people today are more enterprising and creative than ever before. They are victims of some very poor planning but the baby boom generation but thats not on them. 

[canuckistani]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

equally ridiculous.

I am sorry what we observe does not sit well with your political views. But it is what it is. 

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

Young people today are more enterprising and creative than ever before.

And less logically sound, less empirically based and less rational than ever before. 

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

They are victims of some very poor planning but the baby boom generation but thats not on them. 

They are victims of poor education system and mostly, collapsing parenthood in the western world. 

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2 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

I am sorry what we observe does not sit well with your political views. But it is what it is. 

And less logically sound, less empirically based and less rational than ever before. 

They are victims of poor education system and mostly, collapsing parenthood in the western world. 

Oh really?  Again...I'd like to see "proof" of this rather than just your opinion.

 

International students are creating a lot of the dilution and failure/success issues here.  Not "collapsing parenthood of the western world", which I find quite offensive.   Why are so many flocking here FOR our educational system?  If it's poor?  They pay thousands to be victims of our systems.  

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/international-student-recruiter-institution-exploitation-1.4668831

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

I am sorry what we observe does not sit well with your political views. But it is what it is. 

And less logically sound, less empirically based and less rational than ever before. 

They are victims of poor education system and mostly, collapsing parenthood in the western world. 

who's "we"? have you worked with any post-secondary students recently? hired any? whats your specific experience? 

 

You have a very odd idea of Canada. 

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Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

who's "we"? have you worked with any post-secondary students recently? hired any? whats your specific experience? 

 

You have a very odd idea of Canada. 

Haha, as I have a student working beside me who is doing a practicum at our office this month....

[canuckistani]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

who's "we"? have you worked with any post-secondary students recently? hired any? whats your specific experience? 

 

You have a very odd idea of Canada. 

we as in people who work STEM. and yes, i play a vital part in hiring of employees for my department. 

[canuckistani]

3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Oh really?  Again...I'd like to see "proof" of this rather than just your opinion.

 

International students are creating a lot of the dilution and failure/success issues here.  Not "collapsing parenthood of the western world", which I find quite offensive.   Why are so many flocking here FOR our educational system?  If it's poor?  They pay thousands to be victims of our systems.  

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/international-student-recruiter-institution-exploitation-1.4668831

They are flocking for post secondary. Not secondary education. Secondary education here is ghastly, which is why afterschool tutoring is such a big thing amongst us immigrant parents. 

 

You may find the concept of collapsing parenthood in the western world as offensive, but it is a fact. What is fact, is the western world, for the first time in the history of the species, has deviated from the model of at least one adult (or more) at home, raising children. This is the default child rearing strategy for species homo sapiens and i shouldn't have to point out that for a species that exhibit tremendous amount of learned behavior and very little genetically imprinted behavior ( ie, we are like elephants - we have to be taught how to use our hands, like elephants have to be taught how to use their trunks. we are not like dogs, who you can toss into the lake and they genetically know how to swim), parenting model and messing with that has huge consequences. 

[RUPERTKBD]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah ok man  

 

I used to think you just had some outside the box views, but i realize now that you're just a dude with a chip on his shoulder. To brush all Canadians with that comment is laughable. 

How to win friends and influence people:

 

Create an account on a Canadian Sports Forum, then proceed to tell everyone their level of education is inferior to your own...

"I'll take Smug and Condescending for $2000, Alex".

[JM_]

Just now, canuckistani said:

we as in people who work STEM. and yes, i play a vital part in hiring of employees for my department. 

Oh so you're including me and my wife then in your scenario? no thanks. 

 

My wife works with STEM students both here and international placements who come here to learn R&D skills, and has for about 20 years now. I volunteer to help mentor engineering capstone projects. 

 

In our experience kids are getting better and more skilled every year. I have seen nothing that would support your thesis. 

 

I'll say it again, I think this is all some sort of personal grudge you have. Not making this a 'personal attack' but you seem to have internalized some very strange ideas about Canada and young Canadians in particular. Just an observation from a guy with some STEM experience. 

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12 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

They are flocking for post secondary. Not secondary education. Secondary education here is ghastly, which is why afterschool tutoring is such a big thing amongst us immigrant parents. 

 

You may find the concept of collapsing parenthood in the western world as offensive, but it is a fact. What is fact, is the western world, for the first time in the history of the species, has deviated from the model of at least one adult (or more) at home, raising children. This is the default child rearing strategy for species homo sapiens and i shouldn't have to point out that for a species that exhibit tremendous amount of learned behavior and very little genetically imprinted behavior ( ie, we are like elephants - we have to be taught how to use our hands, like elephants have to be taught how to use their trunks. we are not like dogs, who you can toss into the lake and they genetically know how to swim), parenting model and messing with that has huge consequences. 

That is not true.  People are coming here early on to enroll their kids in our system.

 

And again...fact because you say so isn't "factual" for me.

 

We are quite progressive here and understand that kids don't need helicopter parenting - it sets a good example to see parents working hard for the family.    It also instills confidence and independence in children.

 

I was a single mother who had to work and my kids are THRIVING.   They learned, early on, that we have to carry our weight in this world, work hard and earn things that we want and yes...even mothers...are part of that.  I do not judge parents who do stay at home (I did when my kids were young) but I also know it doesn't "hurt" them if parents are working rather than simply rearing them.    So having a parent at home can be beneficial or not.  What if the parent is lazy?  

 

It's a very old fashioned mindset ... but we evolve/grow over time.   Hell, many parents who are at home with the kids shove them in front of a screen....are they any better off?

 

Part of "raising" children is teaching (demonstrating) strong work ethics, independence and confidence in order to groom them to do things for/on their own. 

The fact that you're grouping "Canadians/westerners" all together here is just wrong.  Don't do it. 

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I'm curious...where in the world do you feel they're doing it "right"?  If we're not?  So I can have something to compare against.

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15 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

we as in people who work STEM. and yes, i play a vital part in hiring of employees for my department. 

My western education taught me to start sentences with a capital letter (as well as "I").

[-DLC-]

16 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

They are flocking for post secondary. Not secondary education. Secondary education here is ghastly, which is why afterschool tutoring is such a big thing amongst us immigrant parents. 

 

You may find the concept of collapsing parenthood in the western world as offensive, but it is a fact. What is fact, is the western world, for the first time in the history of the species, has deviated from the model of at least one adult (or more) at home, raising children. This is the default child rearing strategy for species homo sapiens and i shouldn't have to point out that for a species that exhibit tremendous amount of learned behavior and very little genetically imprinted behavior ( ie, we are like elephants - we have to be taught how to use our hands, like elephants have to be taught how to use their trunks. we are not like dogs, who you can toss into the lake and they genetically know how to swim), parenting model and messing with that has huge consequences. 

So there's only one "parenting model" that's effective for all people?

 

That's your first mistake.  That's far too rigid ... we're individuals and needs will vary with that.

[canuckistani]

4 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

That is not true.  People are coming here early on to enroll their kids in our system.

 

And again...fact because you say so isn't "factual" for me.

 

We are quite progressive here and understand that kids don't need helicopter parenting - it sets a good example to see parents working hard for the family.    It also instills confidence and independence in children.

 

I was a single mother who had to work and my kids are THRIVING.   They learned, early on, that we have to carry our weight in this world, work hard and earn things that we want and yes...even mothers...are part of that.  I do not judge Mothers who do stay at home (I did when my kids were young) but I also know it doesn't "hurt" them if parents are working rather than simply rearing them.  

 

It's a very old fashioned mindset but we evolve/grow over time.   Hell, many Moms who are at home with the kids shove them in front of a screen....are they any better off?

1. I am not making this up. I don't know where you live but if you do in Vancouver, Toronto or Calgary ( i mention these three cities, because i decisively know of these three cities), go look up the various afterschool tutoring services that exist and see who the vast majority of the clients are. The clients are parents of kids getting As in school, who think their kids are a year or two behind in learning concepts ( and taught at a much more topical and much easier level, thanks to no tough testing) and also happen to be immigrant parents. 

If we didn't see how deplorable Canadian high school education standards are compared to our own, we'd not be spending extra money bringing tutors for our kids in math and science, would we ? 

 

2. It is a fact, that is easy to prove, that 1 or more adult at home all the time is the dominant child rearing strategy of species homo sapiens. From Bantu culture to middle of nowhere amazon, from arabs to mongols to indians to papua new guineans, thats the model. And west is messing with it. You use the word 'old fashioned' as if its a slur. The entire world's ecosystem and dominant survival strategy IS that of 'dont mess with what works'. Sharks are the most old fashioned creature that exists - they havn't modified what works for their behavior in 200 million years. There are plenty of human behaviors that has no ethical reason to change, because they are species-istic dominant behavior that works. Child rearing is one of them. And when you mess with a dominant behavior of imparting skills to the new generation of a species that is extremely dependent on learning new skills, it has an effect on the species.  This does not mean that every parent is a competent parent, it simply pertains to the system of parenthood and the success/loss of the model employed.

[MystifyNCrucify]

Lets all wear speedos, knee high socks, and belly shirts to work. 

 

Down with societal norms!!!! Eff the patriarchy!!! Shaving sucks!!!!!

[canuckistani]

7 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I'm curious...where in the world do you feel they're doing it "right"?  If we're not?  So I can have something to compare against.

Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, private schools in Dubai, private schools in India. boarding schools in UK. these are what i know of personally and via familial links and am in a position to say are decisively superior to Canadian secondary education.

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

1. I am not making this up. I don't know where you live but if you do in Vancouver, Toronto or Calgary ( i mention these three cities, because i decisively know of these three cities), go look up the various afterschool tutoring services that exist and see who the vast majority of the clients are. The clients are parents of kids getting As in school, who think their kids are a year or two behind in learning concepts ( and taught at a much more topical and much easier level, thanks to no tough testing) and also happen to be immigrant parents. 

If we didn't see how deplorable Canadian high school education standards are compared to our own, we'd not be spending extra money bringing tutors for our kids in math and science, would we ? 

 

2. It is a fact, that is easy to prove, that 1 or more adult at home all the time is the dominant child rearing strategy of species homo sapiens. From Bantu culture to middle of nowhere amazon, from arabs to mongols to indians to papua new guineans, thats the model. And west is messing with it. You use the word 'old fashioned' as if its a slur. The entire world's ecosystem and dominant survival strategy IS that of 'dont mess with what works'. Sharks are the most old fashioned creature that exists - they havn't modified what works for their behavior in 200 million years. There are plenty of human behaviors that has no ethical reason to change, because they are species-istic dominant behavior that works. Child rearing is one of them. And when you mess with a dominant behavior of imparting skills to the new generation of a species that is extremely dependent on learning new skills, it has an effect on the species.  This does not mean that every parent is a competent parent, it simply pertains to the system of parenthood and the success/loss of the model employed.

I want you to provide stats and figures...not a bunch of (racist) opinion you're throwing around.  Stop it.  

 

What is "our own"?