[Proposal] Demko for Ristolainen

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

No thanks. The ED is the year after next, 2021, not his year. Markstrom has been amazing, but so is the potential of Demko. 8/9 games for Demko has been great for him in the NHL and he is going to come back better next season. Give it a couple years and see where we're at. Trying to accelerate this rebuild would be a mistake. We're going to have a bunch of desirable players for the ED, but I wouldn't give up on Demko for another couple of years. Likewise Virtanen, who everyone in the media is trying to trade.

If you look at who's going to be ED eligible, we're most exposed in goal. And Markstrom needs an extension next year, hence we don't have until 2021 IMO.

 

It's not about 'accelerating the rebuild', it's about limiting our exposure.

[vannuck59]

you can keep Markstrom or Demko you will loose one or the other. It would be crazy to keep both  protected . Trading Markstrom for a top end D prospect or a top 10 draft slot  Buffalo Florida or Detroit need Markstrom . We are two years away at least Demko and another place holder would do until we are ready. Buffalo's First strait up. or Detroit's First strait up. or Florida's first and Tippet  for Goldy and Markstrom.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

4 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

you can keep Markstrom or Demko you will loose one or the other. It would be crazy to keep both  protected . Trading Markstrom for a top end D prospect or a top 10 draft slot  Buffalo Florida or Detroit need Markstrom . We are two years away at least Demko and another place holder would do until we are ready. Buffalo's First strait up. or Detroit's First strait up. or Florida's first and Tippet  for Goldy and Markstrom.

You're not getting a top 10 pick for Markstrom.  You'd be lucky to get a late first for him, he's 29 years old turning 30 and has one decent season under his belt.  If you look at the last goalies to muster up first round picks straight up you'll see they are all 26 and under

Lehner was 24 and traded for a 21st overall

Jones was 26 and traded for a 29th overall

Andersen was 26 and traded for 30th overall

Schnieder was a 26 and traded for a 9th overall

Varlamov was 22 and was moved for a 11th overall

 

The only other goalie that comes to mind to have gotten a 1st round pick in recent years was Miller who was 33 and about as proven as you can get.  From my opinion I don't think it's realistic believe we'd land a 1st round pick let alone a top end D prospect or top 10 pick for Markstrom, especially from those three teams.

Florida has been linked to Bobrovsky who's UFA this summer.  Wings already got 7 million locked up in goalies for next season and realistically Bernier who is also 30, is about as proven as markstrom is.  Two goalies with inconsistent careers. I highly doubt they are going to pay a big price for such as their top 10 pick in the midst of there rebuild for a markstrom. And then there's all the other options in UFA this year, Varlamov, Elliot, Talbot, Lenher all who you know some teams will take a chance on.   

[vannuck59]

11 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

You're not getting a top 10 pick for Markstrom.  You'd be lucky to get a late first for him, he's 29 years old turning 30 and has one decent season under his belt.  If you look at the last goalies to muster up first round picks straight up you'll see they are all 26 and under

Lehner was 24 and traded for a 21st overall

Jones was 26 and traded for a 29th overall

Andersen was 26 and traded for 30th overall

Schnieder was a 26 and traded for a 9th overall

Varlamov was 22 and was moved for a 11th overall

 

The only other goalie that comes to mind to have gotten a 1st round pick in recent years was Miller who was 33 and about as proven as you can get.  From my opinion I don't think it's realistic believe we'd land a 1st round pick let alone a top end D prospect or top 10 pick for Markstrom, especially from those three teams.

Florida has been linked to Bobrovsky who's UFA this summer.  Wings already got 7 million locked up in goalies for next season and realistically Bernier who is also 30, is about as proven as markstrom is.  Two goalies with inconsistent careers. I highly doubt they are going to pay a big price for such as their top 10 pick in the midst of there rebuild for a markstrom. And then there's all the other options in UFA this year, Varlamov, Elliot, Talbot, Lenher all who you know some teams will take a chance on.   

Markstrom is the only reason we are not down by LA or New Jersey .with out him we would be picking 2 to 5 range in the draft.  So don't say he's not worth a first .Bobrovsky will want 8 mil plus term at his age I don't thing that will happen . Detriot is not high on ether of their goalies . As for the rest of list I doubt that any one of these retreads will have as much value as MARKSTROM 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

On 4/5/2019 at 7:45 AM, aGENT said:

If you look at who's going to be ED eligible, we're most exposed in goal. And Markstrom needs an extension next year, hence we don't have until 2021 IMO.

 

It's not about 'accelerating the rebuild', it's about limiting our exposure.

But what you really need to ask yourself, is how much value do you feel could be lost by just simply waiting a year till we have a better idea in what we have.  

 

Demko's value should only rise as he gets more proven. A 23 year old goalie who's got another 20-30 games under his belt in the NHL has way more value than the unproven 22 year old goalie who's only got 9 games played.   So if canucks believe in Marky why not play it out,  shelter Demko's starts and up his value to get max.  In the list I pointed out about, those goalies all had proven a lot more in the NHL

 

Varlamov was the youngest but he had played 59 games and had a .917 save% with a 2.39 GAA

Lenher had played 86 games and had a .914 save% with a 2.88 GAA

Schnieder had played 98 games and had a .927 save% with a 2.20 GAA

Andersen had played 125 games and had a .918 save% with a 2.33 GAA

Martin had played the least amount as he only had but he also 34 games and had a .923 save% with a 1.99 GAA and it was overpaid as it involved a series of deals that allowed him to go to a team within LA's division.  

 

Demko's 9 games played with .904 save% and a 3.06 GAA doesn't really hold up to the former goalies who landed 1st round picks.  It doesn't help that the league is filled with young goalies who have a lot of promise, it's the goalies who've proven that promise in the NHL for at least 40-50 games that get the most value in trades so really it doesn't make any sense to trade Demko yet, next summer if marky is the real deal...maybe.

 

Also a Markstrom extension really has zero impact on the ED unless we give him a NMC.  So you really have to consider what you believe his value is today vs what it could be at TD next year as a UFA vs after he's got an extension prior to the ED, vs the cost canucks would have to pay to Seattle to keep both.  It's there really going to be that dramatic of a difference in value that it puts canucks in a position that they need to panic, make move now and greatly put canucks at risk for a making a wrong decision that would greatly hurt our rebuild.  IMO we're talking about at most the value difference of around a 2nd round pick value. That's not worth the risk of how badly thing could go it get it wrong.

[Monty]

Haven’t read through the thread, but not sure how this makes sense for Buffalo. While a few years ahead in development, Buffalo already has Ukko-Pekka in the pipeline, who’ll likely be sharing starting duty in Rochester next season. If all goes well, he’ll be ready in 2-4 years time for full time NHL duty.

 

Demko isn’t a game breaker at the moment and wouldn’t speed up their rebuild and suddenly turn them into playoff contenders, so no reason to part with Ristolainen.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

11 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Markstrom is the only reason we are not down by LA or New Jersey .with out him we would be picking 2 to 5 range in the draft.  So don't say he's not worth a first .Bobrovsky will want 8 mil plus term at his age I don't thing that will happen . Detriot is not high on ether of their goalies . As for the rest of list I doubt that any one of these retreads will have as much value as MARKSTROM 

Great markstrom had once decent year on a bad team.  That doesn't mean his value is top 10 worthy.  Darcy Kuemper is 2 years younger and had a BETTER year than markstrom did on a worse team. Do you think he'd land sabres 4th overall pick?   I like markstrom but I think this is another case of fans overvaluing our own players.  

[vannuck59]

If Markstrom could get anyone of these teams into the playoffs I think its worth it to the team. Markstrom has at least 3 good years ahead of him. we can keep only one goal make the trade.

[canuckledraggin]

On 4/5/2019 at 6:45 AM, aGENT said:

If you look at who's going to be ED eligible, we're most exposed in goal. And Markstrom needs an extension next year, hence we don't have until 2021 IMO.

 

It's not about 'accelerating the rebuild', it's about limiting our exposure.

I'm not sure I follow. You're proposal didn't say anything about that deal happening next year, when you ideally would want a goalie trade to happen. If Markstrom plays the way he did this year, then he gets a deal. If Demko plays around 25 games next season, then you have a better understanding of his abilities and he likely increases his trade value. This isn't a deal you make this summer.

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

you can keep Markstrom or Demko you will loose one or the other. It would be crazy to keep both  protected . Trading Markstrom for a top end D prospect or a top 10 draft slot  Buffalo Florida or Detroit need Markstrom . We are two years away at least Demko and another place holder would do until we are ready. Buffalo's First strait up. or Detroit's First strait up. or Florida's first and Tippet  for Goldy and Markstrom.

Been thinking about this...……..

 

I don't think Buff or Det, use their 2019 1st to take a 30 year old goalie...…..won't happen

Think about it this way...…….how would you feel if the Canucks had done that?

 

I am thinking, maybe Florida does it …...Something like...……...

 

Markstrom and 2021 1st       for         Florida's 2019 1st (13th OA)

 

I think Demko looks sound enough...….albeit a small sample size

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

I'm not sure I follow. You're proposal didn't say anything about that deal happening next year, when you ideally would want a goalie trade to happen. If Markstrom plays the way he did this year, then he gets a deal. If Demko plays around 25 games next season, then you have a better understanding of his abilities and he likely increases his trade value. This isn't a deal you make this summer.

It is, if you can get value.

 

There's no guarantee that either increases their trade value next year. Markstrom could return to earth. Either could be injured. Demko could struggle under a starting load if Markstrom gets hurt, etc, etc.

 

Again, I'm not suggesting Benning should FORCE a deal this summer if there isn't value there but he should be at the very least be listening to offers, and more likely actively shopping to interested parties, in the market for goalies.

 

But one way or another, something should be fine this, or next summer/over the next year, to limit our exposure.

[vannuck59]

5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Been thinking about this...……..

 

I don't think Buff or Det, use their 2019 1st to take a 30 year old goalie...…..won't happen

Think about it this way...…….how would you feel if the Canucks had done that?

 

I am thinking, maybe Florida does it …...Something like...……...

 

Markstrom and 2021 1st       for         Florida's 2019 1st (13th OA)

 

I think Demko looks sound enough...….albeit a small sample size

Yah lots of feed back on this maybe add but there is a deal that could be done. I have seen stranger things done by Gms that want to keep their jobs

[vannuck59]

16 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Been thinking about this...……..

 

I don't think Buff or Det, use their 2019 1st to take a 30 year old goalie...…..won't happen

Think about it this way...…….how would you feel if the Canucks had done that?

 

I am thinking, maybe Florida does it …...Something like...……...

 

Markstrom and 2021 1st       for         Florida's 2019 1st (13th OA)

 

I think Demko looks sound enough...….albeit a small sample size

So your giving Ma rkstrom away for nothing. LOL. Markstrom will help Florida get to the playoffs whats that worth to that team. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, vannuck59 said:

So your giving Ma rkstrom away for nothing. LOL. Markstrom will help Florida get to the playoffs whats that worth to that team. 

No, I am not

 

Firs off Markstrom's  value is that of a 28th to 35 OA pick at best...…...that is just what you get for older starters...….not a lot in the grand picture

 

But what you are getting and what is important, is that you are getting your 2021 1st round draft pick, 2 years earlier, and hopefully a lot higher in the draft....

 

True, it is a gamble, but I am gambling that the Canucks in 2 years are a much better club...…..

 

Consider, that Vancouver in 2 years is in a position to pick around the 20th-22nd pick, which is a couple of tiers down from where Florida's pick is this year

 

So what do we get?

 

We get an upgraded pick, 2 years earlier, so that it can develop that pick 2 years earlier, so that it grows with the core...……..

 

I find this a very valuable move...….there will be a lot of good assets still in and around the 13th OA pick

 

Off the top of my head....possible 13th picks

 

Krebs could be there...………...LW/C...…...if some of the earlier clubs go after Dmen, it will push Krebs down

Caulfield could be there...……..RW...……..most prolific goal scorer USDP 

Lavoie will be there...…………..C...……….Big solid guy, a little inconsistent, but if he finds that, would have been a top 10

Harley will be there...…………..LHD...……I have seen him ranked as high as 10th OA

Broberg could  be there...……..LHD...……Big powerful LHD ranked in top 10 in some poles

Soderstrom could be there...….RHD...…..Smaller (5'11") more consistent defenseman...is neck and neck with Broberg

Seider will be there...…………..RHD...…..A bigger, slightly lesser, Soderstrom, inside the top 20, seen him as high as 16

Knight...………………………….G...……...ranked inside the top 16 on some polls...….seen as a possible franchise goalie

 

These guys are all, top end players, who could be available at the #13 spot, and you give them a 2 year head start, compared to a 2021 draft pick, that could possibly be a lot higher as a pick. Again, I think Markstrom is a lot, but if Benning thought that Markstrom would not be around after the draft, then there is room in the argument to move him at a time where there is a strategic gain.

 

Personally, I believe, that may be now......

[aGENT]

FWIW, they (Hirsch in particular) were discussing re-signing Markstrom and moving Demko on 650 this morning... 

[komodo0921]

If Demko were on the block, I really like the fit in Columbus.

They need cap relief to, hopefully, sign, at least, one of Duchesne or Dzingle.

Bobby's rumored to be looking for the planet in a new deal. Acquiring Demko allows them to move on from him and gives them control over a young goalie for a few seasons.

We, in the meantime, commit to Marky for the next few seasons.

My want would focus on their first 2020. The question is; without a first rounder in 2019, would they be willing to let go of two-first rounders in a row.

My reasoning for wanting that first-round pick is simple. I want to see JB go after Trouba if he makes rfa. Getting that pick would offset the loss of a first round pick that would go to Winnipeg as compensation ( I'm certain we'd be forking over next years as the deal would be a large one.

[aGENT]

23 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

If Demko were on the block, I really like the fit in Columbus.

They need cap relief to, hopefully, sign, at least, one of Duchesne or Dzingle.

Bobby's rumored to be looking for the planet in a new deal. Acquiring Demko allows them to move on from him and gives them control over a young goalie for a few seasons.

We, in the meantime, commit to Marky for the next few seasons.

My want would focus on their first 2020. The question is; without a first rounder in 2019, would they be willing to let go of two-first rounders in a row.

My reasoning for wanting that first-round pick is simple. I want to see JB go after Trouba if he makes rfa. Getting that pick would offset the loss of a first round pick that would go to Winnipeg as compensation ( I'm certain we'd be forking over next years as the deal would be a large one.

I'd prefer to see if we can't get one of their D....

[mll]

23 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

If Demko were on the block, I really like the fit in Columbus.

They need cap relief to, hopefully, sign, at least, one of Duchesne or Dzingle.

Bobby's rumored to be looking for the planet in a new deal. Acquiring Demko allows them to move on from him and gives them control over a young goalie for a few seasons.

We, in the meantime, commit to Marky for the next few seasons.

My want would focus on their first 2020. The question is; without a first rounder in 2019, would they be willing to let go of two-first rounders in a row.

My reasoning for wanting that first-round pick is simple. I want to see JB go after Trouba if he makes rfa. Getting that pick would offset the loss of a first round pick that would go to Winnipeg as compensation ( I'm certain we'd be forking over next years as the deal would be a large one.

 

CBJ has Elvis Merzlikins - for them he's their Bobrovsky replacement.  They believe it won't take long for him to adjust to the NHL.

 

[messier's_elbow]

I’d definitely kick the tires on Risto.  His value is probably the lowest it’s ever going to be, plus he’s a right handed Dman with size and skill. Not the greatest defensively though.

[JM_]

On 4/8/2019 at 10:34 AM, aGENT said:

FWIW, they (Hirsch in particular) were discussing re-signing Markstrom and moving Demko on 650 this morning... 

I'm not opposed to the idea.... both Demko and Markstrom are likely to be two of the better goalies available for the expansion draft. 

 

I'd prefer that the deal have a few more moving parts to help hedge the risks in the form of some kind of prospect back as well. 

 

Hirsh also thought Nilsson was better than Marky tho