[Proposal] Demko for Ristolainen

[Grape]

Man you've gotta be incredibly biased to think that Demko for Ristolainen is bad value for us.

 

Ristolainen's value is at an all time low right now. A perennial 6'4, 40 point scorer on defence has never been as devalued.

 

If all we have to do is trade Demko, an unproven goalie so far at this point in time to get him, I'm sure that nearly every single team in the league would do it in a heartbeat. 

[aGENT]

39 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

I’d definitely kick the tires on Risto.  His value is probably the lowest it’s ever going to be, plus he’s a right handed Dman with size and skill. Not the greatest defensively though.

People like to poo-poo him because of his +/- but he probably would have been our best D not named Edler this year. And his stats are at least partially due to playing (though nothing like Tanev-esque usage) relatively harder minutes (and more of them) than his team mates on a poor, rebuilding team.

 

That's not to say he'd be some defensive stalwart on a better team, he could certainly stand to improve his play in his own end, but he's better than what his numbers might indicate on the surface.

 

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm not opposed to the idea.... both Demko and Markstrom are likely to be two of the better goalies available for the expansion draft. 

 

I'd prefer that the deal have a few more moving parts to help hedge the risks in the form of some kind of prospect back as well. 

 

Hirsh also thought Nilsson was better than Marky tho 

By the sounds of Ian Clark's comments, he's sold on Marky which likely means management is pretty sold on Marky by extension. I'd not be remotely surprised to see him extended sooner than later.

 

And if he's our starter for the next +/-5 years, there's no long term fit for Demko (as much as I love the guy) and no sense in risking him in the ED or waiting until the 11th hour for his trade value to decrease from ED market pressures. If there was no ED, we could likely let this play out another 2'ish years. We simply don't have that luxury. We have this summer or next, at the latest.

 

And in trade, you need to give to get and an early 20's goalie who looked increasingly comfortable at this level every game he played, and has pretty solid draft and development pedigree represents solid trade value to fill a hole elsewhere. This team's not going to move forward this summer by trading out a Goldobin or a Leivo. We're going to need to move some solid pieces. Whether that's for Ristolainen or otherwise.

 

Agree I'd like to see a larger package if possible. IMO any of Hutton, Demko (or Markstrom but I doubt management leans that direction), Sutter, Baer, and Tanev as the larger parts of those packages should be available for the right return. 

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, aGENT said:

People like to poo-poo him because of his +/- but he probably would have been our best D not named Edler this year. And his stats are at least partially due to playing (though nothing like Tanev-esque usage) relatively harder minutes (and more of them) than his team mates on a poor, rebuilding team.

 

That's not to say he'd be some defensive stalwart on a better team, he could certainly stand to improve his play in his own end, but he's better than what his numbers might indicate on the surface.

 

By the sounds of Ian Clark's comments, he's sold on Marky which likely means management is pretty sold on Marky by extension. I'd not be remotely surprised to see him extended sooner than later.

 

And if he's our starter for the next +/-5 years, there's no long term fit for Demko (as much as I love the guy) and no sense in risking him in the ED or waiting until the 11th hour for his trade value to decrease from ED market pressures. If there was no ED, we could likely let this play out another 2'ish years. We simply don't have that luxury. We have this summer or next, at the latest.

 

And in trade, you need to give to get and an early 20's goalie who looked increasingly comfortable at this level every game he played, and has pretty solid draft and development pedigree represents solid trade value to fill a hole elsewhere. This team's not going to move forward this summer by trading out a Goldobin or a Leivo. We're going to need to move some solid pieces. Whether that's for Ristolainen or otherwise.

 

Agree I'd like to see a larger package if possible. IMO any of Hutton, Demko (or Markstrom but I doubt management leans that direction), Sutter, Baer, and Tanev as the larger parts of those packages should be available for the right return. 

yeah its got to be a "sure thing" deal, someone that we would be happy to protect in the ED. 

 

I guess we still have one more year for Demko to prove himself, if he shows well in 30ish games then his value goes up that much more for a team that would be happy to protect him. 

 

Nice to have this problem tho 

[Ronaldoescobar]

Will take far far far more than TD to get Risto. 

[JeremyCuddles]

I am hard pressed to say no to this deal. I like Demko, but if Marky can continue his current play permanently I'd say Demko is somewhat expendable. Especially with DiPietro in the pipeline. Kids a bit of a stud. Undersized for today's goalies but he's got heart and he battles. Risto has defensive struggles, so that's kind of worrying. But offensively he sounds pretty okay. He's got a lot of Dzone starts. Maybe coming here and playing in a more offensive role alongside Hughes or Juolevi or something will help hide those defensive woes. 235 hits, he's no slouch physically.

 

Edit: But yeah. Something tells me a relatively unproven backup, albeit a good young kid, is not enough to get a deal done. But who really knows?

[aGENT]

18 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

I am hard pressed to say no to this deal. I like Demko, but if Marky can continue his current play permanently I'd say Demko is somewhat expendable. Especially with DiPietro in the pipeline. Kids a bit of a stud. Undersized for today's goalies but he's got heart and he battles. Risto has defensive struggles, so that's kind of worrying. But offensively he sounds pretty okay. He's got a lot of Dzone starts. Maybe coming here and playing in a more offensive role alongside Hughes or Juolevi or something will help hide those defensive woes. 235 hits, he's no slouch physically.

 

Edit: But yeah. Something tells me a relatively unproven backup, albeit a good young kid, is not enough to get a deal done. But who really knows?

It would likely require some sort of add, agreed. But that 'relatively unproven kid' was looking awfully comfortable in his last few starts behind an unimpressive team and even less impressive D. They weren't easy, 'gimme' games either. He's also got the pedigree and history.

 

I think an inexpensive young goalie who is trending to be a starter for the next 10'ish years, with club control etc has more value than a lot of people think he does. Small NHL sample size or not.

 

But I'm not stuck on Ristolainen either. I'd have to look more in to other organizations and their early 20's goalie depth but perhaps a rebuilding team like OTT would find him attractive to grow with their young core (and likely have an expiring Ceci available). IIRC, CAR could use a goalie as well and have plenty of right D depth as well. 

There's options out there, here's hoping Benning explores them.

[aGENT]

21 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah its got to be a "sure thing" deal, someone that we would be happy to protect in the ED. 

 

I guess we still have one more year for Demko to prove himself, if he shows well in 30ish games then his value goes up that much more for a team that would be happy to protect him. 

 

Nice to have this problem tho 

I actually wonder if we might be able to snag say Dobson out of NYI? 

 

They have iffy goaltending with soon to be expiring vets (as well as some expiring forwards) and they've got pretty decent right D prospect depth (not to mention wanting to compete NOW). 

 

Give or take...something like:

 

Demko + Tanev + Leivo (or similar)

 

Dobson + 2019 1st

 

 

[WestCoastDave]

I'm not blown away by Ristolainen  underlying numbers.  I rather keep Demko  with Markstrom as a tandem.  Even with expansion other teams will have to expose one of their goalies so there is no guarantee Seattle will be selecting one of our goalies since there will  be a huge selection to pick from.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, WestCoastDave said:

I'm not blown away by Ristolainen  underlying numbers.  I rather keep Demko  with Markstrom as a tandem.  Even with expansion other teams will have to expose one of their goalies so there is no guarantee Seattle will be selecting one of our goalies since there will  be a huge selection to pick from.

Have you looked at who else we'd be exposing? Pretty sure we'd be losing a goalie.

[WestCoastDave]

Well maybe or maybe not.  We could always make a deal with Seattle to pick someone else when the time comes.

 

[Alflives]

On 4/9/2019 at 2:53 PM, Ronaldoescobar said:

Will take far far far more than TD to get Risto. 

Risotto is minus a million.  I like his size and skill,but he might have zero hockey Q.  Best avoid dumb players, especially D men. 

[Elias Pettersson]

Yeah let's trade our future all star goalie for a Dman who is a -41...  

[aGENT]

10 hours ago, WestCoastDave said:

Well maybe or maybe not.  We could always make a deal with Seattle to pick someone else when the time comes.

 

GM's discovered last draft that they were likely better off just losing a player than a player and another asset.

 

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yeah let's trade our future all star goalie for a Dman who is a -41...  

 

On 4/9/2019 at 2:15 PM, aGENT said:

People like to poo-poo him because of his +/- but he probably would have been our best D not named Edler this year. And his stats are at least partially due to playing (though nothing like Tanev-esque usage) relatively harder minutes (and more of them) than his team mates on a poor, rebuilding team.

 

That's not to say he'd be some defensive stalwart on a better team, he could certainly stand to improve his play in his own end, but he's better than what his numbers might indicate on the surface. 

And again :

 

20 hours ago, aGENT said:

But I'm not stuck on Ristolainen either. I'd have to look more in to other organizations and their early 20's goalie depth but perhaps a rebuilding team like OTT would find him attractive to grow with their young core (and likely have an expiring Ceci available). IIRC, CAR could use a goalie as well and have plenty of right D depth as well. 

There's options out there, here's hoping Benning explores them.

 

[elvis15]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yeah let's trade our future all star goalie for a Dman who is a -41...  

Welcome to page 7. If you think someone hasn't said anything about that yet, you're about 6 and 3/4 pages too late.

[WestCoastDave]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

GM's discovered last draft that they were likely better off just losing a player than a player and another asset.

That is true...so you offer less and if Seattle don't accept you lose a player.  By the time the expansion draft comes around in around 2 years time, you will have a better handle on the goaltending situation so it is not necessary to trade Demko anytime soon.

 

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, WestCoastDave said:

That is true...so you offer less and if Seattle don't accept you lose a player.  By the time the expansion draft comes around in around 2 years time, you will have a better handle on the goaltending situation so it is not necessary to trade Demko anytime soon.

 

Exceptt that the closer you get to the ED, the more it tanks trade values. We also need to extend Marky this coming season (or trade him if we're not extending him). IMO, a move needs to be made this, or at the latest, next summer.

[mll]

On 4/10/2019 at 9:04 PM, aGENT said:

I actually wonder if we might be able to snag say Dobson out of NYI? 

 

They have iffy goaltending with soon to be expiring vets (as well as some expiring forwards) and they've got pretty decent right D prospect depth (not to mention wanting to compete NOW). 

 

Give or take...something like:

 

Demko + Tanev + Leivo (or similar)

 

Dobson + 2019 1st

 

 

 

No team has allowed less goals against than NYI this year - only team with less than 200 goals against at 191.  

 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, mll said:

 

No team has allowed less goals against than NYI this year - only team with less than 200 goals against at 191.  

 

Yes, both of whom are having career years, one of whom has a reputation of being unstable and isn't under contract beyond this year, the other not beyond next year and is 33 years old.

 

Seems like a perfectly lovely spot for a young 20's future starter to land without ED protection implications.

[mll]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Yes, both of whom are having career years, one of whom has a reputation of being unstable and isn't under contract beyond this year, the other not beyond next year and is 33 years old.

 

Seems like a perfectly lovely spot for a young 20's future starter to land without ED protection implications.

 

They have Ilya Sorokin coming.  

 

 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, mll said:

 

They have Ilya Sorokin coming.  

 

 

Is he leaving Russia?