Alflives Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 5 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said: Yea, 11M sounds about right Point per game winger. If Parnarin gets 11 what is Marner worth? 12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 How does one look at a team in the eyes and expect nearly 12mil when you never hit 90 points in your life? Kucherov is a 9.5mil player and just walked away with 3 prominent awards. The only award he's won was the Calder that he won as a 24 year old. This guy is a 8-9mil guy. Tops. The league is bending us over cause of Lu's contract but continues to allow teams to grossly overpay Free Agents. GMs: Hard cap is too restrictive!!! Also GMs: Here Panarin, take 12mil for 7 years :D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beni Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: How does one look at a team in the eyes and expect nearly 12mil when you never hit 90 points in your life? Kucherov is a 9.5mil player and just walked away with 3 prominent awards. The only award he's won was the Calder that he won as a 24 year old. This guy is a 8-9mil guy. Tops. The league is bending us over cause of Lu's contract but continues to allow teams to grossly overpay Free Agents. GMs: Hard cap is too restrictive!!! Also GMs: Here Panarin, take 12mil for 7 years :D Matthews has a career best of 73 pts and makes over 11. Dubas has really screwed up the market 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 56 minutes ago, Alflives said: If Parnarin gets 11 what is Marner worth? 12? Marner had a good year with a very good support cast offensively. Panarin's numbers weren't as high this past season, but he was leading his team in points by 20-25 points in the past couple of seasons. Panarin has proven to be more consistent so far and we don't know if Marner is just a one off or how he would do without a Tavares. IMO Panarin is worth the offer although I thought closer to 10 before the absurd deals given to Hayes and Skinner probably boosted his ask. With that said, Marner can actually PK as well, so that's a huge added bonus. Not sure what he's worth anymore because the market is so wild right now, but I still feel an RFA shouldn't be getting UFA value because Panarin is getting his crazy offer since there's a bidding war. Marner shouldn't have this luxury and while he could get an offer sheet, that team would have to give up 4 1st, so the market is not quite the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) That's a fair price and what I expected him to go far. I'd love it if the canucks could get him for that, but he's not going to sign here. He's a game changer and really good. Would probably hit 100 points playing with Pettersson. I would take panarin over marner and I think Marner is worth 10-11m. Edited June 29, 2019 by FireGillis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, DeNiro said: Two things: One, if Panarin signs with the Rangers it's obvious he's more about money than winning. In that case hard pas on a player like that. Two, I gotta think this is gonna be another Hossa like contract if any team signs hi for that. Great if you win a few cups. But it's not likely that the team that signs him will. Not many contenders can pay him his true worth and any team he goes to he makes them a lot better. Plus, you could say the same about anyone that signs with us. Jay Beagle just won a cup and signed with us because he didn't care about winning anymore and chased the money. If Myers signs with us, he doesn't care about winning leaving a good team like Winnipeg and is chasing the money. Both beagle and Myers could have stayed with their original playoffs teams if they took lower salaries. Therefore, if you hold that against panarin you also have to hold that against every free agent that signs with us. It's not something I hold against players. Edited June 29, 2019 by FireGillis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: Marner had a good year with a very good support cast offensively. Panarin's numbers weren't as high this past season, but he was leading his team in points by 20-25 points in the past couple of seasons. Panarin has proven to be more consistent so far and we don't know if Marner is just a one off or how he would do without a Tavares. IMO Panarin is worth the offer although I thought closer to 10 before the absurd deals given to Hayes and Skinner probably boosted his ask. With that said, Marner can actually PK as well, so that's a huge added bonus. Not sure what he's worth anymore because the market is so wild right now, but I still feel an RFA shouldn't be getting UFA value because Panarin is getting his crazy offer since there's a bidding war. Marner shouldn't have this luxury and while he could get an offer sheet, that team would have to give up 4 1st, so the market is not quite the same. Marner led Leafs in scoring last two seasons. 12 million is not too high for him, considering what AM and WN got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Marner led Leafs in scoring last two seasons. 12 million is not too high for him, considering what AM and WN got When compared to the Leafs inflated RFAs I agree. But team value-wise I'd argue that he's not worth more, maybe equivalent at best. Marner led the team 2 seasons ago because Matthews was hurt for 20 games otherwise I'm sure Matthews would've led that team. They added Tavares who was linemates with him and his number jumped up. So after the one season, it's hard to tell if Marner has taken his game to another level or if a player like Tavares has opened up ice for him. Would be a tough decision for me to give up 4 1sts based on that unknown, but worst case scenario is he's probably a 70 point winger that can play defense too. Panarin looked like he was maybe riding Kane's coattails but he's proven for 2 years in a role that he's the driver of the offense not only leading his team, but blowing them out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 32 minutes ago, theo5789 said: When compared to the Leafs inflated RFAs I agree. But team value-wise I'd argue that he's not worth more, maybe equivalent at best. Marner led the team 2 seasons ago because Matthews was hurt for 20 games otherwise I'm sure Matthews would've led that team. They added Tavares who was linemates with him and his number jumped up. So after the one season, it's hard to tell if Marner has taken his game to another level or if a player like Tavares has opened up ice for him. Would be a tough decision for me to give up 4 1sts based on that unknown, but worst case scenario is he's probably a 70 point winger that can play defense too. Panarin looked like he was maybe riding Kane's coattails but he's proven for 2 years in a role that he's the driver of the offense not only leading his team, but blowing them out of the water. Marner is 22, and I’d offer sheet him at 12 million x 7 years if I was a team with cap, that looks to be a playoff team. Colorado would be perfect. The 4 firsts would be 20-30. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 37 minutes ago, Alflives said: Marner is 22, and I’d offer sheet him at 12 million x 7 years if I was a team with cap, that looks to be a playoff team. Colorado would be perfect. The 4 firsts would be 20-30. Marner being 22 is part of the reason I think he shouldn't be getting that big of a contract. It is under the assumption that because he got these numbers at 22, then he's only going to go up. However I'm only arguing his actual worth but not his inflated worth based on the poor RFA signings that Toronto has made so far. As for the offer sheet, Colorado needs to decide if it's going to be worth it. They have their own player in Rantanen that may get a big contract. MacKinnon won't be a steal anymore after I believe 4 more years and at that point, they'll have to look into Makar, Byram, etc and probably move on from Landeskog. They will be out 4 1sts in that time to supplement their roster with ELCs and have a guy signed for 12 million. It would open their window basically for 4 years with a younger D core and goaltending that they hope will take it to another level during this time. It'll have to be a calculated risk in hopes they win a Cup within that time frame. With that said, that's one team who if they decide they don't want to make that risk, then how many other teams can afford to take that risk? Panarin has 3 or 4 serious suitors along with some secondary ones and comes at no cost other than cap which is why his salary is inflated (rumoured to be around 10 million before the Skinner and Hayes deals and now an open bidding war). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Everything I’d read is that him and Bobrovsky were going to end up in Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Face Doom Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 12 hours ago, beni said: Matthews has a career best of 73 pts and makes over 11. Dubas has really screwed up the market No. It's a function of the salary cap and the % players can make from it. Funny how you mention point total but forget to mention he is a perennial 35 plus goal scorer in his early career. You could have an average of 65 points a year but if 30plus of those points are goals, you're getting paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, Metal Face Doom said: No. It's a function of the salary cap and the % players can make from it. Funny how you mention point total but forget to mention he is a perennial 35 plus goal scorer in his early career. You could have an average of 65 points a year but if 30plus of those points are goals, you're getting paid. Just like Skinner's career high 63 points netted him 72 million with movement clauses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 That has buyer remorse written all over it. ufas demand max term max $$$ an protection. best to stay away from the early insanity of the ufa period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Face Doom Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 hours ago, combover said: That has buyer remorse written all over it. ufas demand max term max $$$ an protection. best to stay away from the early insanity of the ufa period. Then we will always be the ones who lost out on players who can make the difference. I like where our young prospects are at but we need a good signing or trade to make us real contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Metal Face Doom said: Then we will always be the ones who lost out on players who can make the difference. I like where our young prospects are at but we need a good signing or trade to make us real contenders. You could make that argument but it's so risky. Imagine LE and another way overpaid underperforming player. So many examples, Gomez, Drury, LE, Neal, etc. I get your point but honestly a trade is probably safer but who knows maybe we could get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I will take Panarin over Marner in a playoff series all day. 5 years from now? Sure, I’d take Marner but Panarin is a much better and complete player now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, Metal Face Doom said: Then we will always be the ones who lost out on players who can make the difference. I like where our young prospects are at but we need a good signing or trade to make us real contenders. Because overpriced ufas have made winners out of so many. Cap handcuffs. The only thing we will miss out on is having to give up picks or prospects to have another team take the overpriced mistake. except we already do, eriksdone. Who were are big over priced ufa signings when were a dominate force and almost won the cup.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRSJ Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 NHL free agency reminds me of the housing market in BC. Breadman is clutch doe. Let the East throw money at him. Makes for great highlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Alflives said: Henrik is not so great anymore. Rags need goalie. I was looking at it in the perspective of the Rangers Management. My guess tells me they think they are ready to take the next step Edited June 30, 2019 by iinatcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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