Chiropractor or a real doctor?

[MeanSeanBean]

39 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I’m assuming patients needing a chiropractor have tight muscles in the areas needing adjustments.  The question begs, why would anyone go to a chiropractor who isn’t working with Physio and Massage therapists?  

Some issues can benefit from stand alone Chrio, but I would argue almost all issues would be better treated with supplemented soft tissue work as well. That being said, I know many chiropractors who have training in active release or graston techniques who can do great work with soft tissue. 

[MeanSeanBean]

5 minutes ago, riffraff said:

IMS just saved my entire livelihood.

 

no exaggeration.

IMS and shockwave therapy saved my career, so I feel ya.

 

Also, yes, we are booked pretty solid, I'm booked over a month out. Better to be busy then bored!

[aGENT]

Most modern chiro's I've seen have a pretty solid base in body mechanics and treatment methods including using techniques from physio, massage etc and can certainly be part of your wellness treatment.

 

What your exact issue is would dictate a lot of who you should see but any and all of chiro, PT, IMS, RMT, acupuncture etc can all have their place in keeping you well.

 

The main reason to go to a 'real' Dr. would be for something being broken, dislocated (shoulder for example), torn muscles/tendons that require surgery etc. Otherwise, a family doc is far more likely to simply prescribe you pain meds (which I personally try to avoid like the plague as they're generally awful for you and many are highly addictive) and refer you to a medical specialist or some of the above professions.

 

So once you've ruled out anything emergent that doesn't require surgery, casts etc, by all means seek out one or many of those other professions for what ails you that fits your injury. The vast majority of whom are not the witch doctors some seem to be painting them as in this thread . Read reviews an make  an informed choice on who you see and you shouldn't have any problems with 'snake oil' types.

 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

A toilet made of gold was stolen from Winston Churchill's birthplace:

 

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/uk-blenheim-palace-gold-toilet-scli-gbr-intl/index.html
 

Quote

 

Police are trying to recover a toilet made entirely from 18-carat-gold that was stolen Saturday morning from Blenheim Palace in Oxfordshire, England, the stately home where former prime minister Winston Churchill was born.

The fully functioning toilet was installed as part of an exhibition by Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan titled "Victory is Not an Option," which only opened to the public on Thursday. The palace will be closed for the rest of the day, a spokesperson said on Twitter.

 

The fully functioning toilet was installed as part of an exhibition by Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan titled "Victory is Not an Option," which only opened to the public on Thursday. The palace will be closed for the rest of the day, a spokesperson said on Twitter.

According to a Blenheim Palace spokesperson, Cattelan values the toilet, titled "America," at over $5 million.

 

As the article states, the police are trying to recover the toilet, but at this point, they don't have a thing to go on....

[RogersTowell]

This past winter I had crippling sacroiliac joint disorder.  It irritated my piriformis muscle, which ended up in almost constant spasm.  That in turn irritated my sciatic nerve.  My MD sent me for an x-ray that showed I had mild ostoarthritis in my lower spine (completely unrelated imho) and then said to rest for three months and come back if it wasn't better and maybe he'd send me for an MRI.  I wasn't about to waste 3 months of my life like that so I tried everything my extended medical benefits covered - massage therapy, physio, chiro and acupuncture.  The RMT was relaxing and gave some moderate temporary relief but did little to ameliorate the condition.  The physio gave me some stretches that helped me to get the piriformis out of spasm temporarily, and are good for maintenance now that the condition is better.  The chiro and acupuncturist seemed to create steady measurable improvements.  I always thought acupuncture was hokum, but after doing it and seeing a significant change in one treatment, I'm sold.

 

I agree with the comment about anecdotal evidence being almost useless, so take my experience with a grain of salt.  Also be aware that not every practitioner (in any field) is equal to another in that field.  My regular chiropractor is solid, but one I saw while on vacation in Puerto Vallarta was amazing.  She worked over every joint in my body and at first I thought she'd made things worse, but when I got up the next morning, I went from being able to walk 2-300 meters at a go without having to sit and stretch to walking 3km+.  Two days later I was paddle surfing.  It took all of the other practitioners more than two months to get me from walking 10 meters up to 2-300 meters.  I saw a chiropractor in Mazatlan for an unrelated issue two years before who did hydrotherapy and a very advanced tens machine in addition to a pretty standard chiropractic treatment that left me feeling like a limp noodle.  

 

 

[riffraff]

23 hours ago, RogersTowell said:

This past winter I had crippling sacroiliac joint disorder.  It irritated my piriformis muscle, which ended up in almost constant spasm.  That in turn irritated my sciatic nerve.  My MD sent me for an x-ray that showed I had mild ostoarthritis in my lower spine (completely unrelated imho) and then said to rest for three months and come back if it wasn't better and maybe he'd send me for an MRI.  I wasn't about to waste 3 months of my life like that so I tried everything my extended medical benefits covered - massage therapy, physio, chiro and acupuncture.  The RMT was relaxing and gave some moderate temporary relief but did little to ameliorate the condition.  The physio gave me some stretches that helped me to get the piriformis out of spasm temporarily, and are good for maintenance now that the condition is better.  The chiro and acupuncturist seemed to create steady measurable improvements.  I always thought acupuncture was hokum, but after doing it and seeing a significant change in one treatment, I'm sold.

 

I agree with the comment about anecdotal evidence being almost useless, so take my experience with a grain of salt.  Also be aware that not every practitioner (in any field) is equal to another in that field.  My regular chiropractor is solid, but one I saw while on vacation in Puerto Vallarta was amazing.  She worked over every joint in my body and at first I thought she'd made things worse, but when I got up the next morning, I went from being able to walk 2-300 meters at a go without having to sit and stretch to walking 3km+.  Two days later I was paddle surfing.  It took all of the other practitioners more than two months to get me from walking 10 meters up to 2-300 meters.  I saw a chiropractor in Mazatlan for an unrelated issue two years before who did hydrotherapy and a very advanced tens machine in addition to a pretty standard chiropractic treatment that left me feeling like a limp noodle.  

 

 

Like you, time, is the main issue for me with doctors.  I simply can’t wait for three months to heal from an injury or chronic condition.  If I don’t work I don’t get paid.  Simple as that.  And I would go stir crazy if wasn’t able to continue some sort of physical activity.

 

Aches and pains are a way of life and for me it's all about managing them as I know they aren’t going away now.  I’ve just had too many injuries.  

 

Like Ricky Gervais said in the office.  “Different drinks.  Different needs.”  

 

So for me its different health practitioners for different issues and different activities based on whatever I’m dealing with physically.

[aGENT]

On 9/14/2019 at 4:56 PM, RUPERTKBD said:

A toilet made of gold was stolen from Winston Churchill's birthplace:

 

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/uk-blenheim-palace-gold-toilet-scli-gbr-intl/index.html
 

As the article states, the police are trying to recover the toilet, but at this point, they don't have a thing to go on....

baddum tush
 

Speaking of chiro's, whoever stole that toilet might need one now. That's got to be heavy and awkward as hell to haul around 

[Lancaster]

On 9/7/2019 at 8:12 AM, shayster007 said:

as a massage therapist, gonna have say you are missing a biggie on that list haha

 

IMS is criminally underrated for muscle issues though, and shockwave for the right conditions is a straight up miracle 

 

On 9/7/2019 at 11:04 AM, riffraff said:

IMS just saved my entire livelihood.

 

no exaggeration.

More details please. 

Been going to chiro on/off for the past couple of years (don't go as often as they recommend... so year).... and started a bit on acupuncture.  

 

Chronic pain in lower back.  I try not to stress my back, but when you're lifting your child (25lbs) in and out of his car seat/stroller/bathtub... it does take it's toll.  

 

With limited health insurance, I want to make sure my dollars are going to the right treatments.  

[Chicken.]

20 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

 

More details please. 

Been going to chiro on/off for the past couple of years (don't go as often as they recommend... so year).... and started a bit on acupuncture.  

 

Chronic pain in lower back.  I try not to stress my back, but when you're lifting your child (25lbs) in and out of his car seat/stroller/bathtub... it does take it's toll.  

 

With limited health insurance, I want to make sure my dollars are going to the right treatments.  

No physiotherapy ? 

 

Gunn IMS

Intramuscular Stimulation 
Supersensitivity and muscle shortening cannot be operated on and ‘cut away,’ while ‘painkillers’ and other analgesic pills only mask the pain (often poorly) and promote toxicity, compounding the problem. Neuropathy only responds to a physical input of energy.

Intramuscular Stimulation (IMS) is a total system for the diagnosis and treatment of myofascial pain syndromes (chronic pain conditions that occur in the musculoskeletal system when there is no obvious sign of injury or inflammation). IMS is grounded in Western Medical Science, and has a solid foundation in its radiculopathic model of pain, which is now supported by many experts in the field. It was developed by Dr. Chan Gunn while he was a physician at the Worker’s Compensation Board of British Columbia in the 70’s, where he investigated the large number of mysteriously stubborn cases after frustration with the ineffective modalities at his disposal. The treatment, which utilizes acupuncture needles because they are the thinnest implements available that are designed to penetrate deep within muscle tissue, specifically targets injured muscles that have contracted and become shortened from distress.

IMS relies heavily on a thorough physical examination of the patient by a competent practitioner, trained to recognize the physical signs of neuropathic pain. This physical examination is indispensable since chronic pain is often neurological as opposed to structural, and therefore, invisible to expensive X-rays, MRI Tests, Bone and CT Scans. Failure to recognize these signs will result in an inaccurate diagnosis, and thus, a poor starting point for physical therapy.
The treatment involves dry needling of affected areas of the body without injecting any substance. The needle sites can be at the epicenter of taut, tender muscle bands, or they can be near the spine where the nerve root may have become irritated and supersensitive. Penetration of a normal muscle is painless; however, a shortened, supersensitive muscle will ‘grasp’ the needle in what can be described as a cramping sensation. The result is threefold. One, a stretch receptor in the muscle is stimulated, producing a reflex relaxation (lengthening). Two, the needle also causes a small injury that draws blood to the area, initiating the natural healing process. Three, the treatment creates an electrical potential in the muscle to make the nerve function normally again. The needle used in IMS, by stimulating muscle spindles, essentially becomes a specific and unique tool for the diagnosis of Neuropathic Muscle Pain.

The goal of treatment is to release muscle shortening, which presses on and irritates the nerve. Supersensitive areas can be desensitized, and the persistent pull of shortened muscles can be released. IMS is very effective for releasing shortened muscles under contracture, thereby causing mechanical pain from muscle pull. IMS, in effect, treats the underlying neuropathic condition that causes the pain. When competently performed, IMS has a remarkable success rate, as proven by the amelioration of symptoms and signs, even for chronic back pain with root signs.

[RUPERTKBD]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

baddum tush
 

Speaking of chiro's, whoever stole that toilet might need one now. That's got to be heavy and awkward as hell to haul around 

It's funny, because I intended to post this in World Events. I thought it had gotten lost in Cyberspace or something....I don't even remember click on the thread, TBH

 

(sucks getting old....)

[MeanSeanBean]

2 hours ago, Lancaster said:

 

More details please. 

Been going to chiro on/off for the past couple of years (don't go as often as they recommend... so year).... and started a bit on acupuncture.  

 

Chronic pain in lower back.  I try not to stress my back, but when you're lifting your child (25lbs) in and out of his car seat/stroller/bathtub... it does take it's toll.  

 

With limited health insurance, I want to make sure my dollars are going to the right treatments.  

Sounds like you need some physio and hard work to get strong 

[Lancaster]

3 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Sounds like you need some physio and hard work to get strong 

Ironic... I injured my back at the gym.....

[MeanSeanBean]

38 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Ironic... I injured my back at the gym.....

Gym strength is not necessarily the type of strength that keeps you back from being a chronic issue. Bulk movers are for moving large objects, the meat and potatoes are for keeping the body moving and functioning properly. Rarely is repping out deadlifts going to resolve, or prevent a back injury.

Edited September 17, 2019 by shayster007

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Ironic... I injured my back at the gym.....

*Doing something wrong at the gym to be fair  (Sorry to kick you while you're down ).

 

You should probably be doing any number of chiro, massage, physio, yoga (flexibility and core strengthening so long as your at a point where you won't re injure yourself) etc. Your physio person should be able to do IMS (if qualified and if they feel it will be helpful). Continued acupuncture might be helpful as well.

 

With all of these, look at reviews, not all practitioners (or yogis) are equal.

[Lancaster]

25 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Gym strength is not necessarily the type of strength that keeps you back from being a chronic issue. Bulk movers are for moving large objects, the meat and potatoes are for keeping the body moving and functioning properly. Rarely is repping out deadlifts going to resolve, or prevent a back injury.

Nah, I was trying to work on my core at the time.  Bulk is useless if you get tired walking 50 meters, lol.  

 

23 minutes ago, aGENT said:

*Doing something wrong at the gym to be fair  (Sorry to kick you while you're down ).

 

You should probably be doing any number of chiro, massage, physio, yoga (flexibility and core strengthening so long as your at a point where you won't re injure yourself) etc. Your physio person should be able to do IMS (if qualified and if they feel it will be helpful). Continued acupuncture might be helpful as well.

 

With all of these, look at reviews, not all practitioners (or yogis) are equal.

Yeah, I was actually.  I normally use the standard machine to strengthen the back muscles.  On that one day, the machine I regularly use was occupied so I tried a different machine that I've never used before.  After using it for a little bit, my back felt awkward.  Since then it got more painful and even after taking lots of time off to "recover", it's gotten progressively worse.  

 

 

Nowadays, I'm starting to understand how Brent Sopel injured his back by picking up a cracker.  

[kingofsurrey]

You want to address your back issues...

 

Lose 20 pounds and work on your core strength....  this will fix alot of your issues...  but of course it takes hard work which most people are not willing to do.

 

Much simpler just want  to visit the chiro for 5 minutes 2-3 times and see what that can do.

 

Humans are lazy. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by kingofsurrey

[riffraff]

4 hours ago, Lancaster said:

 

More details please. 

If by details you mean injury history it’s a bit of a list but related to my back most of my issues stem from three accidents of note:

 

1.) the most significant back injury was a fall under load.  I was camping.  Carrying a heavy drift log from the beach on my shoulder.  I slipped on a slightly wet grassy slope.  (Should have never gone that route) I came straight down into a squat without letting go of the log and essentially it compressed some discs in my spine.  That was in 2004 and to this day the injured area still gives me trouble.  I resolved the issue back then with about 8 chiro sessions.  But since then my back/ribs “go out” in that area and it requires 1 or 2 treatments.  So essentially it’s ongoing maintenance.

 

the other two accidents are actually fairly similar.  A fall down the chief trail in Squamish.  I used to do that hike a lot and got to where I could almost run up it and always ran down.  If you play you pay and I did.  Basically scorpioned right into my face on rocks.  And the other was full tilt into the boards on my lower back left hip.  These injuries are now aggravated by running.  Treatments are chiro and stretching.

 

IMS has essentially saved my life as I mentioned earlier.  Early in my construction career I developed a mild tennis elbow which I treated with acupuncture approximately 8 sessions.  This is about 2005 and there has been no issue until January this year.  It returned with a vengeance to the point where I had severe chronic pain.  I’m talking pain where I was unable to even sit still after work in the evenings - basically writhing in pain.  I lost significant grip strength and had interrupted sleeps.  My mood on most days was terrible.  I started seeing a physio at the end of January who is qualified for IMS and had treatments about every 10 days until May.

 

surely if I rested for 4-6 weeks it would have healed much faster but resting is not an option for me (self employed)

 

anyhow I’m now pain free and doing every sport activity I usually do.  My grip has returned to the point where I can go climbing with my kids at a climbing gym.  Sometimes my elbow will feel a bit tight but I can alleviate that with the stretches my physio showed me.

 

i think what most people don’t understand or ignore is that you need to be proactive in your health.  You can’t wait for injury and then simply see a doctor.  

 

Its important to to stay strong, stretch,  mix up your exercises and preferably do exercise that simulated real life and athletics.  Eat right and sleep properly.  It’s so basic but so neglected with today’s demands.

 

As others have mentioned most doctors will just say wait x months, take these painkillers and or have surgery in 6 months etc.  If you have that time then great.  I don’t have time and I don’t like drugs.  If something isn’t working I try another option.  Whatever it takes until I heal.

 

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, riffraff said:

i think what most people don’t understand or ignore is that you need to be proactive in your health.  You can’t wait for injury and then simply see a doctor.  

My dad was telling me about his new orthotics for his fallen arches the other day. I asked him if he had thought of exercises via physio, yoga etc to strengthen the muscles around the area and restore at least some of his arch... He looked at me like I'd asked him if he'd seen a which doctor and clarified that 'that's not how this works and that's what the orthotics are for'  

 

I think some of it's generational/mindset for sure!

 

"The Dr's got a pill for that!"

 

 

Same goes his cholesterol and now diabetes.... Hey dad, how about you change your diet and exercise?....Nope, doc's got pills for that  

 

1 hour ago, riffraff said:

As others have mentioned most doctors will just say wait x months, take these painkillers and or have surgery in 6 months etc.  If you have that time then great.  I don’t have time and I don’t like drugs.  If something isn’t working I try another option.  Whatever it takes until I heal.

Honestly, modern medicine is great for emergent care (rips/breaks/holes/heart attacks/cancer etc) but I avoid those clowns like the plague for any of the more 'everyday/chronic' stuff we're talking about here. They're simply not good at that stuff. Like you said, it's the typical throw (frequently awful for you and/or addictive) pain meds at it and 'rest' (which frequently is the opposite of what you should do after inflammation etc has tapered).

[luckyjack]

I believe in modern medicine and I think only qualified specialist can prescribe the right treatment. When I had back pain issues my doctor advised me to try  inversion table, I checked reviews here https://cozyhousetoday.com/innova-inversion-tables-reviews/ and ordered onefo home. This table can help to get rid of back pain and strengthen core muscles. Very useful stuff.

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by luckyjack

[aGENT]

18 minutes ago, luckyjack said:

I believe in modern medicine and I think only qualified specialist can prescribe the right treatment. 

You 'believe in modern science'? 

 

Is it a character from pagan mythology or something?