JM_ Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, thedestroyerofworlds said: One more: How many times does it have to be pointed out that Alberta would have to become a have not to get more equalization? Taxes would have to be raised and the economy would have to tank further than it has. No Albertans want that do they? Neither do we. So dont call us antialberta then. bingo. All there seems to be is an amorphous sense that they want "more" back. But how? The mechanism for that really matters. Do you get taxed less federally because your neighbour works in the oil industry? less GST for some reason? let oil companies off the hook on federal royalties? no, no and no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Today in the UK, a nation is confirming they are more messed up than the US or even Canada......it is almost like they looked across the pond at the North American mess and said "hold my beer, we can top that...." Children are running the world. Perhaps that is why the likes of JT are so happy to play with Greta...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said: How many times does the fact that Alberta Conservatives, with the current premier being a key figure, were involved in setting the rules for the very equalization program they now are complaining about? How many times does it have to be pointed out that decisions made by Albertan governments, almost entirely from the conservative side of the aisle, have made their bed and now they want the rules changed mid game? Man what a bunch of whiny little snowflake babies. Waaaaaaaaaaaa @inane do you now see why people get frustrated with the uneducated? No party can control commodity prices...also repeatedly I have pointed out who changed the formula I also don't like JK and didn't vote cpc but as usual this guy and hip play politics with it. You are correct it's not left vs right as the ndp didn't like the formula change and renewing of it. The ndp also campaigned on being no friend of JT. So trying being honest inane when guys like me or FTG have to deal with this uneducated stupidity can you understand how it gets annoying? I don't mind discussion with @Jimmy McGill as he doesn't bring politics in as all parties in Alberta agree the formula is flawed. I get this snowflake is anti conservative as is hip but it has nothing to do with the discussion. Money was saved, money was invested in Alberta, money made all Canadians lives better and money made it so Canada isn't running a 100 billion dollar deficit but some how we should have more money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said: One more: How many times does it have to be pointed out that Alberta would have to become a have not to get more equalization? Taxes would have to be raised and the economy would have to tank further than it has. No Albertans want that do they? Neither do we. So dont call us antialberta then. One more time and hopefully the last time. 13 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: bingo. All there seems to be is an amorphous sense that they want "more" back. But how? The mechanism for that really matters. Do you get taxed less federally because your neighbour works in the oil industry? less GST for some reason? let oil companies off the hook on federal royalties? no, no and no. 11 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: In current transfer payments there’s a lot of rule set up that determines on how much each province gives. It’s not simply you make the most, you pay the most that people love to parrot so much. First, we have fiscal stabilization that pays up to $60 per capita to provinces that suddenly lose more than 5% of their revenue. It’s why a province like Ontario still received $1 billion despite being a have province. Alberta should also fall into that category since lost more than 5% the last few years but here’s the kicker, fiscal stabilization doesn’t count for natural resource revenue unless it loses over 50%. So Alberta gets next to no benefit for that. But where Natural resources don’t account for fiscal stabilization, they sure do count for equalization. With Equalization payments it’s not just the personal income taxes of individuals that so many here love to parrot. There are five different revenue streams taken into consideration, personal income taxes, business income taxes, consumption taxes, property taxes and Alberta’s biggest stream natural resource revenues. Because Alberta is able to generate large amounts of revenue from it’s natural resource it will always be on the hook for equalization payments, even if the personal and business income taxes drop below other provinces. The formula to calculated the “how much” is in place for 3 year segments. It’s set up this way to allow for changes in the market. With the way Alberta has been hurting in the down turn of oil the last four years, you would assume this the ideal reason for adjustment. But Trudeau approved the current plan to remain the same for another 3 years in 2018. It’s a system that has some major flaws that many of you are not willing to admit. One example would be A province like Quebec has government owned hydro, they can technically artificially keep prices low to bring in lows revenue that in turn makes the province look poorer than they actually are = more equalization money. It’s a win/win for them as lower hydro looks good on a provincial political level but also helps keep their ability to generate revenue lower than it actually should be. trevor Tombe did a decent job simplifying in that news article to give people who have zero clue a rough idea on how it works. The problem is you got people like hip that take the simplified approach as gospel and are willing to die on that argument Pretending they know how it works. But if you really enjoy trevor Tombe. He writes a number of blog posts on equalization payments and he goes way more in depth on it far beyond most here’s comprehension. But if you can keep up. One I read a few months ago did a really good job explaining how complex the formula really is, how the formula leaves a lot of grey area in the numbers (aka Ontario last year) and even how some provinces (Quebec) takes full advantage of the system and will never change because it’s in there favor, like I mentioned above. anyways this is like the 5th times I’ve posted this in this very thread and I’m tired of it when it seems to go on deaf ears. So I’m done with this topic and thread for a while. Take this post for what it’s worth and do what ever you wish with it, I won’t loose sleep over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: #wexit its actually hard to justify "best" but good, on par with the other big centres, sure. #wexit puts a lot of that at risk, though. You'd better hope the politicians you're banking your future on really have a solid plan to retain those professionals, and an oversimplified idea that you'll have even more money to throw at them isn't a retention plan. Sorry, highest paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedestroyerofworlds Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: @inane do you now see why people get frustrated with the uneducated? No party can control commodity prices...also repeatedly I have pointed out who changed the formula I also don't like JK and didn't vote cpc but as usual this guy and hip play politics with it. You are correct it's not left vs right as the ndp didn't like the formula change and renewing of it. The ndp also campaigned on being no friend of JT. So trying being honest inane when guys like me or FTG have to deal with this uneducated stupidity can you understand how it gets annoying? I don't mind discussion with @Jimmy McGill as he doesn't bring politics in as all parties in Alberta agree the formula is flawed. I get this snowflake is anti conservative as is hip but it has nothing to do with the discussion. Money was saved, money was invested in Alberta, money made all Canadians lives better and money made it so Canada isn't running a 100 billion dollar deficit but some how we should have more money. Calls me uneducated. Snowflake. The only thing you got right is anti conservative. You're damn right when the conservative movement has been hijacked by knuckleheads and morons. The type who chant lock her up at TRUMP rallies. Money was saved? Is Alberta debt free? How's that heritage fund? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 NRR issue is where the AB message should be focused. It's raises my eyebrow a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 38 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: Sorry, highest paid. ah, I think I misread it. Same point tho, there had better be a very serious retention plan for the upper tiers of professionals for #wexit. Keep in mind the majority of these folks tend to lean left as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 40 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: Sorry, highest paid. on the fiscal part - I've been saying as well for a while the fiscal stabilization program is the place to give more back to all resource heavy provinces. Not the least of reasons why is its the only pot of cash thats truly discretionary for the receiving province. Its also the easiest one to come up with a formula thats fair to all provinces. Frankly I don't think Morneau has it in him to create such a change, but Freeland might. Or if she doens't come up with it herself, she'd listen to a smart person from AB or SK or NL who's already invented it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 36 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said: Calls me uneducated. Snowflake. The only thing you got right is anti conservative. You're damn right when the conservative movement has been hijacked by knuckleheads and morons. The type who chant lock her up at TRUMP rallies. Money was saved? Is Alberta debt free? How's that heritage fund? Considering you live in a province that contributes very little, is taxed to death, has the most natural resources and ocean access all while having more debt, you know the debt that was doubled by the ndp in The 90s maybe you should worry about Bc. We were debt free then we we got two left leaning PC's and wouldn't you know we had debt, then the ndp wo added 30 plus billion in debt. Again with the us stuff..let it go u don't live there nor can u vote there. 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: ah, I think I misread it. Same point tho, there had better be a very serious retention plan for the upper tiers of professionals for #wexit. Keep in mind the majority of these folks tend to lean left as well. Wexit Alberta may be falling apart. The freedom conservatives are trying to unite the sovereign right wing parties. Lol provincial election will have 9right wing parties 4 of which are independent parties.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said: Considering you live in a province that contributes very little, is taxed to death, has the most natural resources and ocean access all while having more debt, you know the debt that was doubled by the ndp in The 90s maybe you should worry about Bc. We were debt free then we we got two left leaning PC's and wouldn't you know we had debt, then the ndp wo added 30 plus billion in debt. Again with the us stuff..let it go u don't live there nor can u vote there. Wexit Alberta may be falling apart. The freedom conservatives are trying to unite the sovereign right wing parties. Lol provincial election will have 9right wing parties 4 of which are independent parties.. wth is a 'freedom conservative'? is that independence too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RUPERTKBD Posted January 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2020 I've been sitting on the sidelines for this "debate", because it's gotten cyclical and hasn't deviated for at least dozen pages or so.... ....I'll just say that the name calling doesn't help anyone's case. If you can't make a point without calling someone "stupid", or a "snowflake", then it reflects poorly on the rest of your argument. You might be making a sapient argument, but it gets buried in the vitriol. 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said: @inane do you now see why people get frustrated with the uneducated? No party can control commodity prices...also repeatedly I have pointed out who changed the formula I also don't like JK and didn't vote cpc but as usual this guy and hip play politics with it. You are correct it's not left vs right as the ndp didn't like the formula change and renewing of it. The ndp also campaigned on being no friend of JT. So trying being honest inane when guys like me or FTG have to deal with this uneducated stupidity can you understand how it gets annoying? I don't mind discussion with @Jimmy McGill as he doesn't bring politics in as all parties in Alberta agree the formula is flawed. I get this snowflake is anti conservative as is hip but it has nothing to do with the discussion. Money was saved, money was invested in Alberta, money made all Canadians lives better and money made it so Canada isn't running a 100 billion dollar deficit but some how we should have more money. I guess the question is if you think we're all so stupid and uneducated, why are you beating your head against a wall trying to 'educate' us idiots when we apparently are too stupid to understand? As I mentioned before, maybe some self-reflection is in order for a lot of people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedestroyerofworlds Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said: Considering you live in a province that contributes very little, is taxed to death, has the most natural resources and ocean access all while having more debt, you know the debt that was doubled by the ndp in The 90s maybe you should worry about Bc. We were debt free then we we got two left leaning PC's and wouldn't you know we had debt, then the ndp wo added 30 plus billion in debt. Again with the us stuff..let it go u don't live there nor can u vote there. Wexit Alberta may be falling apart. The freedom conservatives are trying to unite the sovereign right wing parties. Lol provincial election will have 9right wing parties 4 of which are independent parties.. BC is a part of Canada, so fighting for Canada means that I care about this Wexit bs. I am pro Canada. You can't say the same. I used the TRUMP example to highlight the type that are the knuckleheads and morons of the conservative movement. They exist in Canada as well. I could have used social conservatives as well. I could have used CC deniers too. So yes, I am not a fan of the Conservative side of the aisle. Funny how you called those PC Albertan governments left leaning. When you are way out on the extreme, everything looks leftist I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Some snippets from link below. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-public-service-cuts-1.5379582 29 Nov 2019. Nearly 6,000 Alberta public-sector jobs could be eliminated as the UCP government tries to cut costs and find efficiencies, the provincial government signalled to Alberta's largest union in letters released late Friday afternoon. On Friday, the United Nurses of Alberta learned that a further 750 front-line nurses could lose their jobs under a "massive downsizing" at AHS. At least the AB government is trying to trim the fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedestroyerofworlds Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, BPA said: Some snippets from link below. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-public-service-cuts-1.5379582 29 Nov 2019. Nearly 6,000 Alberta public-sector jobs could be eliminated as the UCP government tries to cut costs and find efficiencies, the provincial government signalled to Alberta's largest union in letters released late Friday afternoon. On Friday, the United Nurses of Alberta learned that a further 750 front-line nurses could lose their jobs under a "massive downsizing" at AHS. At least the AB government is trying to trim the fat. Self inflicted pain. When economic policy of Conservatives is voodoo, this is what you get. The viscous cycle of voodoo: Conservatives promise tax cuts will spur economic growth and the growth will pay for said tax cuts. Conservatives cut taxes. Celebrate their greatness. Conservatives get a look at the books. All they see is red. Use this red to now cut programs and services. Economy doesn't work like they planned. Rinse and repeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 We've gone full spectrum I see. How quaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Implementing a PST/HST in conjunction with a revised Equalization payment and reduction in government overhead would go along way to restoring AB to be debt free like it was 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: wth is a 'freedom conservative'? is that independence too? When they ran in 2019 there push was for full autonomy and pulling Alberta out of equalization and if Ottawa wavered or refused to then immediately hold a referendum on independence. https://www.freedomconservativeparty.ca/platform 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: When they ran in 2019 there push was for full autonomy and pulling Alberta out of equalization and if Ottawa wavered or refused to then immediately hold a referendum on independence. https://www.freedomconservativeparty.ca/platform About the People's Front for the Liberation of Alberta, or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Alberta or the Alberta People's Front, or the Freedom Conservative Party. And apart from the roads, the rail lines, immigration, sanitation, the cannabis, federal police, pensions and the aqueduct, what have the Canadians ever done for us?: The party was named the Alberta First Party from 1999 to 2004, when it changed its name to the Separation Party of Alberta. In 2013, it reverted to Alberta First.[4] In April 2018, it became the Western Freedom Party of Alberta.[5] On June 22, 2018, it was announced that the Western Freedom Party had changed to its present name. Number of seats out of 87 currently held by the Freedom Conservative Party: ZERO, which represents a LOSS of one seat from the previous election. I think the best course of action would be to Kidnap JT's wife and issue demands. Such demands would be to completely dismantle Canadian occupation of Alberta within two days or she is executed. Edited January 31, 2020 by Curmudgeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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