'Nucks Depth Discussion....

[NexusRift]

First off, Thus far, I'm delighted by the draft recently in the JB era. Reason for optimism for sure!  I'm of the ilk that we're not contenders for the big prize yet. Playoff bound contenders, yes. That being said..................................

 

Usually a SC contender is subject to injuries during playoffs. And it's not uncommon for a prospect and/or rookie call up to shine when an opportunity arises. 

My question/questions regarding this........

Do you think we've depth enough in our prospects now or in the near future?

Anyone think we require depth acquisitions or stand pat.......

 

[mikeyman109]

53 minutes ago, NexusRift said:

First off, Thus far, I'm delighted by the draft recently in the JB era. Reason for optimism for sure!  I'm of the ilk that we're not contenders for the big prize yet. Playoff bound contenders, yes. That being said..................................

 

Usually a SC contender is subject to injuries during playoffs. And it's not uncommon for a prospect and/or rookie call up to shine when an opportunity arises. 

My question/questions regarding this........

Do you think we've depth enough in our prospects now or in the near future?

Anyone think we require depth acquisitions or stand pat.......

 

I think we are in the development stage with most of this team. What most likely will happen is as the team grows they will add other young players as Bo Petey Miller etc  take over the roles that the older players have played in their development. You dont get to a point and say we have every thing we need we stop adding draft picks, players with skill, it just means as you develop you draft later. Those players you draft will need more time to develop or possibly not make the NHL. The true value in the scouts is finding players in the 25-32 range in the first round.Or the 60 plus draft pick surprising.

JB and group have done a great job of picking in the top 10. You have a better chance of success doing that however you still have to nail the pick. How many times have we seen a Petr Nedved taken or a JJ Daigneault. Only to have them fail to hit the expectations. Hughes Petterson, Boeser, all have been quality picks and for that Benning deserves the praise he has gotten. When he picks at 30 and can hit the player that can add to the team then i will be even more impressed.

You are bang on when you say Depth is a key to having SC p[layoff success. When the Canucks went to the finals in 2011 they had nine D men play regular games for them during the season. and not just one game stretches. You need that at all positions because injuries are going to happen. Right now the Canucks top 6 players can compete with most teams. Where they get exposed is when you get to the third and fourth lines. At the start of the season when Schaller, Beagle, Motte were scoring the team was winning easily. Now that its tightened up we are more dependent on the top 6 and Power play.

As we move on from some contracts, Sutter, Beagle, Eriksson, Schaller and add in Podkolzin, Hoglander, Possibly Tryamkin, Madden, Woo the key will be having the balance we need defensively, offensively, grit and toughness to continue to improve. Benning was correct in looking for some decent bottom 6 type players to compliment the scorers. We overpaid at the time because we were a losing team without the type of success it takes to get those players on a cheaper deal because the team is a legitimate contender.Make the playoffs a couple seasons and then that becomes an easier sell.

In general the Canucks are looking like they will have players that can step in and play at most positions. I for one am interested in seeing what happens if we make the playoffs, who stands out and who folds.Then we can assess who should stay and who should go. Its definitely a better future than 4 years ago

[Phil_314]

Our depth is fine.  We've had 9 forwards with more than 1/2 point/ game, which is top-6 production, and we have an all-star in each position (F, D, G).  The defensive depth has improved and if they play solidly they'll be tough, and Demko is solid in spot duty for all-star Marky.  If we could upgrade the defense somehow (e.g. Myers for someone else on the right side, e.g. steal Dumba miraculously) then sure.  Otherwise I think we sit pat and let development take its course.

[DADDYROCK]

It's great to hear about the Comets having some skilled guys starting to build their games up to the nhl ready level and if we can get some solid defensive play coming as well it will show that our developement programs are helping to get these young guns ready for THE SHOW.I'm hearing good things folks.

 

More steady solid defense along with great goaltending, please and thank you,is the way to win championships.

[the grinder]

In regarding the depth of the team  ,  I think we are  still missing a winger on  Horvats line  ,  LE  has been ok  but it could be greatly improved ,. Missing a big tough winger , a back up to Ferland  ,  maybe Bailey/ big Zack from Utica ,   Center depth  is where we have a bit of a problem , we don't have any skilled depth at center  if any of our top 3 go down we are in deep trouble ,

 

On defense we have some depth, so I think we are ok there  but never hurts to have a bit more ,and t in order to address any of these  we need to move a big salary out ie LE or baer .   

[Crabcakes]

I don't think they're buyers or sellers this year.

 

They haven't been bitten hard by the injury bug this year and I give this some credit for their more consistent play this year.

 

They'll be letting the young players continue to develop and in the mean time, veterans in general are still filling a need.  Having said that, I think that Schaller won't be back next year.  He is a true rental coming up to the deadline.  Sutter is also showing that he is redundant and they could move on from him but who's going to take the often injured player off their hands?  Next year is the final year of Sutters contract.

 

On D, Rafferty or Tryamkin may replace Stecher but until either of those 2 players can show that they can actually play at the NHL level, I don't see any movement.  I don't see a change happening before the end of the season.

 

In goal, we have seen a duel between Markstrom and Demko playing out and Markstrom is clearly winning.  I see Marky re-signed and a final decision not happening in goal until this time next season.  If the trend continues, Demko may be just left exposed to the expansion draft

Edited January 18, 2020 by Crabcakes

[Fanuck]

2 hours ago, NexusRift said:

 

Do you think we've depth enough in our prospects now or in the near future?

Anyone think we require depth acquisitions or stand pat.......

 

No, our depth is nowhere near some people think it is.  Having Marky leave for personal reasons and Demko out with an injury at the same time simply proves our depth isn't quite there yet.  You could basically say the same for any other position - suppose two of Tanev/Edler/Myers/Hughes go down with injuries at the same time which, with our history is 100% realistic, then you see our depth isn't that good.  On forward, one could easily, with our luck, envision a scenario where two of BB/EP/Miller/BoHo are out at the same time with injury - then who fills in? 

 

Stay the course, build through the draft, make 'fine-tuning' trades when you can but no to rentals and no to selling off the future with regards to picks/prospects/young roster players. 

[Ray_Cathode]

2 hours ago, NexusRift said:

First off, Thus far, I'm delighted by the draft recently in the JB era. Reason for optimism for sure!  I'm of the ilk that we're not contenders for the big prize yet. Playoff bound contenders, yes. That being said..................................

 

Usually a SC contender is subject to injuries during playoffs. And it's not uncommon for a prospect and/or rookie call up to shine when an opportunity arises. 

My question/questions regarding this........

Do you think we've depth enough in our prospects now or in the near future?

Anyone think we require depth acquisitions or stand pat.......

 

This anticipates a topic that I wanted to bring up regarding our schedule. We have been relatively healthy during December and incurred plenty of injuries during November.  This is not unexpected from looking at our schedule. During November we were away for most of the month and played sixteen games during that period - December saw only 13 games many of which were at home. November also saw three times four games in six nights (the first four in six started in October). This concentration of games and extensive travel leads to weariness and greater injury risk. During the Burke era, he argued to the league about the lack of consideration by the schedule makers in this regard - not without reason.  There had been a historical record of Canuck teams dying in January - a tradition of hitting a January wall.

 

November was a test for us, but nothing like the wall we will hit in March where we play sixteen games - fortunately, the majority of those games are at home, but occur at the end of a long season and during the most rugged part of the schedule as teams fight for playoff position. This is a time that should test our depth.

 

Here is where we may see recruits from Utica getting a shot - I’m thinking MacEwen, Glaovac, Bailey, Rafferty, Juolevi, and maybe DiPietro here. Reinforcements from Europe, say Tryamkin, or college, say Rathbone, Madden, or Lockwood are possibles. I’m thinking Woo will probably be involved in playoffs. There is a small possibility of seeing Hoglander, but I think he will be more likely to make his push in the fall. Still, it’s great that there are prospects to be excited about, and possible relief for players with nagging injuries leading up to the playoffs that we have a pretty good chance of being involved in.

 

Anybody else have thoughts on this conjecture?

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, NexusRift said:

First off, Thus far, I'm delighted by the draft recently in the JB era. Reason for optimism for sure!  I'm of the ilk that we're not contenders for the big prize yet. Playoff bound contenders, yes. That being said..................................

 

Usually a SC contender is subject to injuries during playoffs. And it's not uncommon for a prospect and/or rookie call up to shine when an opportunity arises. 

My question/questions regarding this........

Do you think we've depth enough in our prospects now or in the near future?

Anyone think we require depth acquisitions or stand pat.......

 

I think the need for more depth has come in an uncommon form this year - it's usually the blueline that is hammered - this year it's been the forward group.

 

Where it's remained the same is the impact on veterans.  Thankfully the youth have generally remained healthy.

 

But their veteran forward group has been literally hammered with injuries.

 

Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Roussel, Ferland, Leivo.... that is a whole lot of depth to fill - with key injuries to your best shutdown centers, your physical and matchup wingers...

 

I'm particularly impressed that they survived the bulk of that - especially when you add a 10 game stretch without Edler to the mix.   Without Edler, you then have Hughes as a rookie pmd, and a pair of Benn/Fantenburg to try to fulfill that loss = no easy task, particularly when Sutter and Beagle are also out of the lineup.

 

I wasn't surprised they had some growing pains and difficulties, particularly on the road or in games they were tryign to defend leads - those were challenging circumstances for a young group.

 

I think the group has shown solid depth - generally capable placeholders in the absence of those key veterans.  Of course there is a breaking point - I think the point at which you lose Edler, Sutter, Beagle types are borderline breaking points - but that would be true of most if not all young teams.

 

Now that they're relatively healthy, I'm fairly optimistic that they might actually find another gear, or be able to sustain what they've done with a reasonably intact lineup....

 

I don't think they'll be adding at the deadline unless they suffer a key blueline loss - ie to Edler, Tanev, Myers....if in the midst of a realistic chance of making the postseason.  And even then, I think they'd just add a placeholder/expiring contract at reasonable asset cost if the need is there - otherwise, with guys like Juolevi, Sautner, Rafferty, Brisebois they might get the push they need from within.....(and up front they've already managed a LOT of losses - but I'd point out that guys like Kole LInd are coming on strong of late, MacEwen is serviceable, Baertschi/Goldy are still available as upside depth....I think they're fairly set with the forward group - and goaltending).

[Coconuts]

We're not contenders or team that people assume should make the playoffs, we're a team fighting tooth and nail to try and get in. We're a team still in it's development stages, a time on the rise. Depth acquisition is important but the main avenue of doing that should probably still be the draft or UFA at this point. 

 

Our prospect depth is better than it's ever been, but that's honestly not saying much considering our history. We've been pretty lucky that injuries haven't hit our top offensive guys too hard, but like Oldnews said, our depth players have taken a beating this season. We've got serviceable depth right now though, so I wouldn't be surprised for JB to check in with other GM's, find the asks are too high, and stand pat until the draft. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Coconuts

[6string]

[Crabcakes]

1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

This anticipates a topic that I wanted to bring up regarding our schedule. We have been relatively healthy during December and incurred plenty of injuries during November.  This is not unexpected from looking at our schedule. During November we were away for most of the month and played sixteen games during that period - December saw only 13 games many of which were at home. November also saw three times four games in six nights (the first four in six started in October). This concentration of games and extensive travel leads to weariness and greater injury risk. During the Burke era, he argued to the league about the lack of consideration by the schedule makers in this regard - not without reason.  There had been a historical record of Canuck teams dying in January - a tradition of hitting a January wall.

 

November was a test for us, but nothing like the wall we will hit in March where we play sixteen games - fortunately, the majority of those games are at home, but occur at the end of a long season and during the most rugged part of the schedule as teams fight for playoff position. This is a time that should test our depth.

 

Here is where we may see recruits from Utica getting a shot - I’m thinking MacEwen, Glaovac, Bailey, Rafferty, Juolevi, and maybe DiPietro here. Reinforcements from Europe, say Tryamkin, or college, say Rathbone, Madden, or Lockwood are possibles. I’m thinking Woo will probably be involved in playoffs. There is a small possibility of seeing Hoglander, but I think he will be more likely to make his push in the fall. Still, it’s great that there are prospects to be excited about, and possible relief for players with nagging injuries leading up to the playoffs that we have a pretty good chance of being involved in.

 

Anybody else have thoughts on this conjecture?

Graph of the Canucks progress the last 3 years.

 

Horizontal parts represent periods with no points gained.  Each year we see similar progress to about the 20 game mark.  Last year, we see a slump at that point.  And the year before, we see a slump around the 27 game mark followed by a long period where points weren't being earned at the same rate as before.  I think the biggest difference between the 3 seasons is the recent winning streak that the Canucks had which clearly separates this season,  In the current standings, it puts the team right back into the thick of the playoff race. 

 

In short, I think that the teams progress somewhat mirrors your assertions.  Every team goes through rough patches however whether it is to do with a tough road schedule and/or injuries.  The Canucks this year have not had major injury issues.  Sutter, Ferland and Leivo have had long term injuries but there has been nothing of consequence to important players.  They did survive a short Edler injury without much effect.  But the winning streak, I think, came after Edler's return

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Crabcakes

[NexusRift]

On 1/18/2020 at 11:39 AM, Coconuts said:

We're not contenders or team that people assume should make the playoffs, we're a team fighting tooth and nail to try and get in. We're a team still in it's development stages, a time on the rise. Depth acquisition is important but the main avenue of doing that should probably still be the draft or UFA at this point. 

 

Our prospect depth is better than it's ever been, but that's honestly not saying much considering our history. We've been pretty lucky that injuries haven't hit our top offensive guys too hard, but like Oldnews said, our depth players have taken a beating this season. We've got serviceable depth right now though, so I wouldn't be surprised for JB to check in with other GM's, find the asks are too high, and stand pat until the draft. 

Edited

The 1st paragraph pretty much nails it right here. It'd be a great thing to squeak into the playoffs this season for sure. Can do alotta' good for the mind and moral of the players and team. Especially for the young core. And though the free agent vet acquisitions we've currently on the team may not be there when the 'Nucks become SC contenders, their presence and leadership through our present campaign are invaluable as such in the event we get in the playoffs this or next season.

 

Regarding the 2nd paragraph; I would agree there as well. I'm guessing that at least a player in each position will be an NHL player for us. Hopefully a couple will become part of the core. 

"......We've got serviceable depth right now though....." Serviceable is about it. Trades or acquisitions come this season's deadline as y'all know, is dependant on where we stand at that point. If we're in no doubt of a playoff scenario, JB will stand pat and may only address any needs because of injury.

 

BTW. This I believe is only the second topic thread I've entered into the 'Nucks forum. So glad to see some concise, logical, and intelligent replies. I know the peanut gallery in CDC can be a rough crowd. I don't sign in and comment too much. But sometimes the urge hits me to do so. 

Thanks CDC'ers!