[Trade] Kings trade Tyler Toffoli to Canucks for Tim Schaller, Tyler Madden, 2020 2nd-round pick, conditional 2022 4th-round pick

[Kanukfanatic]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Signing Tofu would be great.  So would getting Marky and Tanev done.  Where does the money come from though?  Has anyone done a clear breakdown of our cap for next year, because the last one I saw here showed we had no room for these guys.

if someone can prove otherwise, I’d be excited for July 1.  

Why bother....you can just run around making silly claims like the Canucks cannot resign Toffoli without any evidence at all.

[The Great 8]

3 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Why bother....you can just run around making silly claims like the Canucks cannot resign Toffoli without any evidence at all.

We actually would have a very tough time re-signing Toffoli IF we can’t move any contracts via trade. Everyone seems to like the idea of trading sutter and Baerstchi, easier said then done.. Also we could sign Toffoli even without any moves but that would leave no money to upgrade the D. I don’t want to go into next year with the same D

[wai_lai416]

8 hours ago, Tower102 said:

Ya, I played around with capfriendly for next year. I put the cap at 84 million so the bottom of the projection. It obviously depends what our UFA and RFA's sign for. Here is what I did:

 

Toffoli at 5.5m (I think this is fair, but he could get up to 6-6.5 on the high end)

Markstrom at 5.5m (could leverage our poor performance without him and get 6m, but he hasn't been super consistent over his career)

Tanev at 5m (maybe he argues to get the Myers 6m, but with his injury past I think we could argue him at 5)

Virtanen at 3.4m (used Kapanen as a comparable but slightly lower)

Gaudette at 1.25m (used Virtanen's last contract as a comparable)

Stetcher at 2.3m (same as this year, if its higher we drop him)

 

I traded Baer and Sutter for no roster pieces and we have 2.35 m in cap space. If the top 3 go for higher, we could look at trading Benn to get rid of his 2m or we drop stetcher and bring in rafferty. 

 

So... it is not a given we can fit them all but it certainly is possible if we negotiate well and get rid of a couple contracts. It would become easy if Eriksson retires or mutually terminates his contract and or the cap is nearer the high end of the projection. Ferland and his health also will make a difference, my projected roster had him slot into the 4th line for Sutter. If he is unhealthy and remains on LTIR or retires than that is an additional 3.5m off the books.

so let say you do all that.. where the hell does pettersson and hughes come in?? pearson benn edler comes off the book.. we have roughly 14mil to sign 7 players including hughes pettersson a backup goalie a top 4 defenseman.. pettersson and hughes will probably account for close to 14mil by themself if they continue their trend.. they ain't signing for a 4-5mil bridge contract and even if they do so it'll be at least north of 6mil

[Me_]

9 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

HAAY @coryberg

 

I was drunk and reading my post i fink i did pretty good

 

Didnt mean to single you out, it was a reply t everyone i quoted that replied to what i had said.

 

Apologies Mr.Cory Berg

 

No slight was intended to you!

 

 

Let me clarify: i don't think Madden will contribute more in the NHL or any other pro league more than Karlsson.

 

Dahlen was traded for Karlsson, His trajectory looks to be better. Dahlen even had Petey setting him up for a year and didn't break over a PPG.

 

and i highly doubt there's another young stud as good as Petterson setting Karlsson up to collect points.

 

Dahlen born in 97 5"11 weighs 180 a winger leftie ( remember when people said he was too small?)

Madden born in 99 5"10 152lbs a rightie C

Karlsson born in 99 6"1 183 a rightie C

 

This is many years ago, i may be wrong.

 

Didn't John Madden, Tyler's father have issues with being a little husky ? Now his son has issues being too light? Weird huh

Those are three massive babies!

 

lol

[Me_]

Double post

Edited March 6, 2020 by Me_

[Me_]

Double post

Edited March 6, 2020 by Me_

[coryberg]

21 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Didn't John Madden, Tyler's father have issues with being a little husky ? Now his son has issues being too light? Weird huh

He got his build from mom.

[GhostsOf1994]

4 hours ago, coryberg said:

He got his build from mom.

*downloads image*

 

Googles john madden wife*

[komodo0921]

On 3/5/2020 at 11:47 AM, NaveJoseph said:

Really hope we sign Toffoli. He's been great for us.

JB doesn't seem to be the type of gm that trades for rentals.

Imo, his plan is to re-sign Tofu unless the price is too rich.

[aGENT]

9 hours ago, coryberg said:

He got his build from mom.

Yeah, hockey players tend to marry *ahem* 'petite' young women 

 

 

[Ballisticsports.]

Hypothetical Question-

If You were the manager and Tylers agent said we will Only sign a 5.5 1 yr contract, do you sign that or just take it that the agent is being greedy to get him a big raise from any team, for what would be another breakout year for him playing along EP and Miller a whole year and pass on the offer? That would not sound like a team player and someone interested in staying, but at the same time it gives a prospect winger  more time to develop, but now, you also have to give up that other draft pick for signing him. I personally want players on the team that want to be here for the team, as players do too

[Tower102]

On 3/5/2020 at 9:15 PM, wai_lai416 said:

so let say you do all that.. where the hell does pettersson and hughes come in?? pearson benn edler comes off the book.. we have roughly 14mil to sign 7 players including hughes pettersson a backup goalie a top 4 defenseman.. pettersson and hughes will probably account for close to 14mil by themself if they continue their trend.. they ain't signing for a 4-5mil bridge contract and even if they do so it'll be at least north of 6mil

Ok fair enough. I gave it a go. Signed Hughes to an 8m contract using Chabot as a comparable. I think Hughes is better but there are also some really good young Dmen signed for less so I think that is a fair contract to project. I signed Petey to an 8.5 m contract. Could maybe be higher, but their are comparables on both ends, ended up using Aho at 8.4 and it also slides him between the numbers of guys like Connor, Point, Nylander on the low side and Marner, Eichel, Rantanen on the high side. 

 

The major move I made to come up with the cap space was allowing Seattle to take Markstrom (hoping Demko is ready after another full season as back up next year), and promoted DiPietro to back up. This also assumes that the contract I simulated for next year for Markstrom does not include a No Trade. 

 

I used a cap hit of 85 m as I figured either they will sign the rumoured multi year static cap (which would likely be above the 84m baseline projection for next year if its static for multiple years), or it will be low end next year with modest gain the year after. I think it could be up to 88m for this year but like my last projection, lets go low end. 

 

I allowed Pearson, Benn and Edler to leave. I brought up Pod, Hoglander, Rafferty, Juolevi. Spooner's buyout comes off the books. 

 

My roster is:

 

Miller Petey Taffoli

Pod  Horvat  Boeser

Hog  Gaudette Virtanen

McKewen  Beagle Motte

Rousell Eriksson Ferland

 

Hughes Tanev

Juolevi Myers

Rafferty Stetcher

 

Demko 

DiPietro

 

.5 m in cap space

 

The roster is not fully complete as I obviously have too many forwards, with Rousell, Eriksson and Ferland all eating up a tonne of cap. The D needs one more guy, specifically a LHD. I have stopped at this point because there are MANY possibilities from here on out to make it work. Ferland could be LTIR or retired due to health so that is a big question mark, Eriksson could get moved, retire or mutual termination of contract, and Rousell is a possible trade target to lose salary but ideally is on the roster in case Pod or Hog aren't ready. I also left all 3 salaries on the table to counter balance if we end up going with Markstrom instead of Demko, and/or a potential Tryamkin signing to fill out our LHD or another replacement FA. I kind of went with worst case scenario in terms of cap on the roster, and if I was to move forward with the roster above, I would then be willing to trade a 1st to get rid of Eriksson or trade Ferland and Rousell. 

 

Either way, after this experiment I think we will be fine re-signing Petey and Hughes if we brought back Markstrom, Tanev and Taffoli for next year.

 

Remember, the year after this projected lineup, Luongo's recapture comes off the books too to create more room moving forward. 

[Tower102]

10 minutes ago, Tower102 said:

Ok fair enough. I gave it a go. Signed Hughes to an 8m contract using Chabot as a comparable. I think Hughes is better but there are also some really good young Dmen signed for less so I think that is a fair contract to project. I signed Petey to an 8.5 m contract. Could maybe be higher, but their are comparables on both ends, ended up using Aho at 8.4 and it also slides him between the numbers of guys like Connor, Point, Nylander on the low side and Marner, Eichel, Rantanen on the high side. 

 

The major move I made to come up with the cap space was allowing Seattle to take Markstrom (hoping Demko is ready after another full season as back up next year), and promoted DiPietro to back up. This also assumes that the contract I simulated for next year for Markstrom does not include a No Trade. 

 

I used a cap hit of 85 m as I figured either they will sign the rumoured multi year static cap (which would likely be above the 84m baseline projection for next year if its static for multiple years), or it will be low end next year with modest gain the year after. I think it could be up to 88m for this year but like my last projection, lets go low end. 

 

I allowed Pearson, Benn and Edler to leave. I brought up Pod, Hoglander, Rafferty, Juolevi. Spooner's buyout comes off the books. 

 

My roster is:

 

Miller Petey Taffoli

Pod  Horvat  Boeser

Hog  Gaudette Virtanen

McKewen  Beagle Motte

Rousell Eriksson Ferland

 

Hughes Tanev

Juolevi Myers

Rafferty Stetcher

 

Demko 

DiPietro

 

.5 m in cap space

 

The roster is not fully complete as I obviously have too many forwards, with Rousell, Eriksson and Ferland all eating up a tonne of cap. The D needs one more guy, specifically a LHD. I have stopped at this point because there are MANY possibilities from here on out to make it work. Ferland could be LTIR or retired due to health so that is a big question mark, Eriksson could get moved, retire or mutual termination of contract, and Rousell is a possible trade target to lose salary but ideally is on the roster in case Pod or Hog aren't ready. I also left all 3 salaries on the table to counter balance if we end up going with Markstrom instead of Demko, and/or a potential Tryamkin signing to fill out our LHD or another replacement FA. I kind of went with worst case scenario in terms of cap on the roster, and if I was to move forward with the roster above, I would then be willing to trade a 1st to get rid of Eriksson or trade Ferland and Rousell. 

 

Either way, after this experiment I think we will be fine re-signing Petey and Hughes if we brought back Markstrom, Tanev and Taffoli for next year.

 

Remember, the year after this projected lineup, Luongo's recapture comes off the books too to create more room moving forward. 

On an optimistic mind set, the cap is at 88m. Eriksson and Ferland's contracts are off the books. We decide to keep Markstrom instead of Demko. We have an roughly 10m in cap space to deal with the LHD, maybe re-sign Pearson.

[VIC_CITY]

On 3/5/2020 at 12:55 PM, Tower102 said:

Ya, I played around with capfriendly for next year. I put the cap at 84 million so the bottom of the projection. It obviously depends what our UFA and RFA's sign for. Here is what I did:

 

Toffoli at 5.5m (I think this is fair, but he could get up to 6-6.5 on the high end)

Markstrom at 5.5m (could leverage our poor performance without him and get 6m, but he hasn't been super consistent over his career)

Tanev at 5m (maybe he argues to get the Myers 6m, but with his injury past I think we could argue him at 5)

Virtanen at 3.4m (used Kapanen as a comparable but slightly lower)

Gaudette at 1.25m (used Virtanen's last contract as a comparable)

Stetcher at 2.3m (same as this year, if its higher we drop him)

 

I traded Baer and Sutter for no roster pieces and we have 2.35 m in cap space. If the top 3 go for higher, we could look at trading Benn to get rid of his 2m or we drop stetcher and bring in rafferty. 

 

So... it is not a given we can fit them all but it certainly is possible if we negotiate well and get rid of a couple contracts. It would become easy if Eriksson retires or mutually terminates his contract and or the cap is nearer the high end of the projection. Ferland and his health also will make a difference, my projected roster had him slot into the 4th line for Sutter. If he is unhealthy and remains on LTIR or retires than that is an additional 3.5m off the books.

Assuming your math adds up (I'm far too lazy for that), thanks for doing that. I think your projections are spot on, save a few hundred K. Assuming guys are willing to sign for a bit of a hometown discount. I'm hoping we can get Jake for $2.5 though. Josh Leivo money.  I'm assuming you left Leivo off your team?

 

I was curious and very skeptical that we'd be able to re-sign everyone without trading significant prospects/picks. We'd definitely need to retain money at the minimum. It would be a godsend if we sent Loui down and eventually terminated his contract, but it's not something you can count on. 

[Tower102]

1 hour ago, VIC_CITY said:

Assuming your math adds up (I'm far too lazy for that), thanks for doing that. I think your projections are spot on, save a few hundred K. Assuming guys are willing to sign for a bit of a hometown discount. I'm hoping we can get Jake for $2.5 though. Josh Leivo money.  I'm assuming you left Leivo off your team?

 

I was curious and very skeptical that we'd be able to re-sign everyone without trading significant prospects/picks. We'd definitely need to retain money at the minimum. It would be a godsend if we sent Loui down and eventually terminated his contract, but it's not something you can count on. 

Math adds up as I did it all on the cap friendly interactive tool. I did leave Leivo off the team as he is redundant if we resign Taffoli. I also don't think getting out of Loui's contract is something we can count on which is why I left his cap on the team. Things are much easier if it does get terminated.

[Kass]

On 3/2/2020 at 11:50 PM, VancouverHabitant said:

JT Miller is at 5.25 and is twice the player that Brock is
Teravainen is getting 5.4 mil/year and outscored Brock last year and did so again this year in both totals and PPG 
Tatar is at 5.2 mil and is outscoring Brock 
Couturier and Brayden Schenn are both getting 5 mil/season and are scoring as much as Brock plus providing a physical dimension 
David Perron's at 4 mil/season 

Brian Rust is getting 3.5 mil/season (both outscoring Brock) 
 

I don't think I'm insane Kass, I think it's insane to expect to win a Stanley Cup one day when we're paying a guy 7.5 mil/season and he's not driving play.  Brock's a great poacher, but he's priced himself into an unreasonable bracket by holding out this summer.  

JT Miller was traded for by JB because he is a cost controlled player who signed a contract when he was younger before breaking out and the contract was signed 2 years ago before the market went up. Plus everyone knows and says he is underpaid and if he signed his contract now he would get 8.5+ minimum

 

Tervainen underpaid for sure is true

 

Tatar was 3 years ago and was as bridge contract and came off a 46 point year and was down in points for two years in a row. This year is the first time he is out scoring brock and it's just barely. He is also due for a contract after next year so he will be getting much more most likely.

 

Couturier is well underpaid and everyone knows that. But he is also nearing the end of his contract which was signed when he was 23 and never put up 40 points in a season. (he would have gotten it if he played all the games in the contract year

 

Schenn is also underpaid and signed his contract 4 years ago as a bridge as well... He is also on the last year of his contract and has already resigned for more money lol. Terrible comparision bud.

His new contract is only 6.5mil a year which is on the low end of what he could get. But he signed an 8 year contract lmao he is 29 and this contract will take him until he is 37 so it has potential to be amazing as well as terrible.

 

Perron is definitely underpaid true

 

Bryan Rust yeah Crosby is a hell of a drug. Notice how is career high is 38 points prior to this? Last year being down from the year prior.

 

"I don't think I'm insane Kass,"

 

I think you are because your argument was in favor of my side lol... How is listing a few players that everyone agrees are underpaid for their production who all took until their mid to late twenties to become those players a good way of trying to prove that someone else who is younger and equally/better than half the players you listed all while being 23. Tervainen is the only one you could argue for your side. He is a good equal comparison for Boeser but at the same time Aho only took 8 mil so Carolina seems to have some special contract ability/players taking some good discounts to stay together. JT Miller would be the next closest with 56 points in 82 @ 23 and I also would argue for you on Miller and I also thought the same when we traded for him. But most people up until 6 months ago thought JT Miller was as clown and at best 2nd line player so it's funny how that one goes...

[Kass]

On 3/3/2020 at 9:19 PM, BPA said:

Staying healthy is also part of the equation.  Which Boeser has never been healthy for a full season (62gp, 69gp, 56gp).

 

My fear is that he will be like Salo and Tanev.  Not an if but a when will he be injured. 

 

A high PPG is great but put it into perspective that he's only going to play 60 games, then suddenly it doesn't look all that great.

Very true I agree that it plays a part. But you can't say a guy who puts up .8-1ppg and plays 60-75 games a crappy 4-5 mil tweener like the homie was trying to say he was. That is just false any team would love to have Boeser at 5.875 and many would pay more.

[BPA]

4 hours ago, Kass said:

Very true I agree that it plays a part. But you can't say a guy who puts up .8-1ppg and plays 60-75 games a crappy 4-5 mil tweener like the homie was trying to say he was. That is just false any team would love to have Boeser at 5.875 and many would pay more.

I think his current salary is on par for his production.  If he can stay healthy, he top 9-10M easily.  But if he can't, then most likely 7M-ish for his next contract. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Kass said:

Very true I agree that it plays a part. But you can't say a guy who puts up .8-1ppg and plays 60-75 games a crappy 4-5 mil tweener like the homie was trying to say he was. That is just false any team would love to have Boeser at 5.875 and many would pay more.

I don’t disagree with any of your players assessments however Brock’s contract escalates to 7.5 mil/year and I don’t think that we’ll be able to ice a competitive team with that contract.  
 

Think of it internally, Jake’s trending to be just as impactful as Brock. Quinn and Elias are much better players then Brock already. Marky’s our MVP.  JT Miller and Toffoli are better players then Brock. 
 

You can’t have a competitive team where your fourth or fifth best player is making 7.5 mil/year. That’s all I’m really trying to say.  
 

Also @Tower102 it’s a pretty far reach to assume that we will be able to get rid of both Sven and Sutter without taking any salary back. I just don’t think we will be able to do that. 

[Kass]

12 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

 

That’s all I’m really trying to say.  
 

 

Well I mean your other post that's not all you said lol you also said  

 

Quote

he's playing like a 4-5 mil/season player

Which was my dispute with you post not that today Brock is worth 7.5+ mil.... 

 

Brock is currently on his version of what Brayden Shenn, Sean Couturier, and Tomas Tatar did just a that he had a year of his ELC burned and instantly put up more points than any of those players did at their age. Plus did a tiny bit short of a contract which could easily be explained by the more points at a younger age.

 

I agree with your assessment in that if Brock doesn't keep growing as a player he could easily be a bit of a cap problem. But his contract wouldn't be terrible and would easily could be traded. Barring any serious injury/regression in that time