Benning's plan

[spook007]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

That quote does not say what you said in your original thread at all - you said something like “even TG doesn’t think we will be good for another 4-6 years”.  It says, what it says.  That things will be exciting the next 4-6 years.   I’m sure he’s right too.   First crack at it we won more games then all but three runs in 50 years.   Missed only four playoffs.   That speaks to a GM who has a plan and is executing it.   Miller and Schmidt ... he’s the only GM who’s done that in quite some time.   Hard to plug holes like that, yet he managed....

Amazing how anyone can be so negative towards, what's happening in Vancouver... 

Is it perfect? Not a chance, but who is... , however it's the best it's been in a long time, and we are going to look good for the next 8 years, probably. Long may it continue.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, spook007 said:

Amazing how anyone can be so negative towards, what's happening in Vancouver... 

Is it perfect? Not a chance, but who is... , however it's the best it's been in a long time, and we are going to look good for the next 8 years, probably. Long may it continue.

Long may it continue for sure.   Regular season is fun for sure - but the real season is all they really matters.  First crack at it and 17 games.   That’s mid conference finals territory in a normal year.   Maybe it was a fluke - doesn’t seem likely though.   I’m very much looking forward to seeing what they can do this year.   Similar team with some upgrades overall.   Demko when the chips were down is absolute money so far - and I’m sure the team itself had a lot to do with that which is ok.   Took three games for Vegas to close us out - well really 2.75 games ... and I’m sure everyone learned something from it.   I don’t expect a to win presidents trophies with this club -but see great things happening come post season in our future. 

[WeneedLumme]

With the way Hogs, Pods and Tram are playing right now, and with all the other quality prospects fighting for the last couple of roster spots, it seems to me that the rebuild is complete, just waiting for a bit of ripening. Even with no further acquisitions at all, a year from now I don't really see any holes in the line up. Anybody complaining about Benning's plan at this point is being willfully obtuse. 

[IBatch]

16 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

With the way Hogs, Pods and Tram are playing right now, and with all the other quality prospects fighting for the last couple of roster spots, it seems to me that the rebuild is complete, just waiting for a bit of ripening. Even with no further acquisitions at all, a year from now I don't really see any holes in the line up. Anybody complaining about Benning's plan at this point is being willfully obtuse. 

Rebuild is definitely more then just on track.   Before the cap “core” wasn’t a much used term.  Now it’s used all the time.   Why?  Cup teams, well all teams really, can only afford so many.   CHI had Toews, Kane, Hossa, Crawford, Seabrook, Keith and Sharp.   Some of the times it changed a little (Crawford and Sharp) but more or less that was it 7 guys.   We have in age order Schmidt, Miller,Horvat , Demko, BB, EP and  QHs....  Myers could be included too given his cap hit and term left.   It’s a little more like St Louis.    PIT - Crosby, Malkin, Letang, MAF and Kessel.    LA.  Kopitar, Richards, Doughty, Brown, Carter etc.  

 

Point is you can only have so many - and the better your stars are, usually the less you can fit in.   CHI lost an entire team’s worth of guys over their 7-8 years of contending.   Byfuglien probably hurt the most.   Vancouver has room for one more top six and one more top four guy basically.   Why I didn’t include Edler because I don’t think he will be a core guy anymore (if at all), and that money is going to pay for EP and QHs raises.   He will either be replaced by OJ or via free agency. 
 

St Louis is the only cup winner not to have one or two top paid players on it, and they just lost their C...couldn’t afford him.   WSH is another easily defined core.    
 

We still need another top for D and top six winger - and for sure it’s possible the guys already there...if not the money should be available to fill those wholes via free agency.   And I’m sure there will be some decent deals in two years to do just that, if we even need too. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by IBatch

[WeneedLumme]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Rebuild is definitely more then just on track.   Before the cap “core” wasn’t a much used term.  Now it’s used all the time.   Why?  Cup teams, well all teams really, can only afford so many.   CHI had Toews, Kane, Hossa, Crawford, Seabrook, Keith and Sharp.   Some of the times it changed a little (Crawford and Sharp) but more or less that was it 7 guys.   We have in age order Miller, Horvat, EP, BB, QHs, Schmidt  and Demko.   Myers could be included too given his cap hit and term left.   It’s a little more like St Louis.    PIT - Crosby, Malkin, Letang, MAF and Kessel.    LA.  Kopitar, Richards, Doughty, Brown, Carter etc.  

 

Point is you can only have so many - and the better your stars are, usually the less you can fit in.   CHI lost an entire team’s worth of guys over their 7-8 years of contending.   Byfuglien probably hurt the most.   Vancouver has room for one more top six and one more top four guy basically.   Why I didn’t include Edler because I don’t think he will be a core guy anymore (if at all), and that money is going to pay for EP and QHs raises.   He will either be replaced by OJ or via free agency. 
 

St Louis is the only cup winner not to have one or two top paid players on it, and they just lost their C...couldn’t afford him.   WSH is another easily defined core.    
 

We still need another top for D and top six winger - and for sure it’s possible the guys already there...if not the money should be available to fill those wholes via free agency.   And I’m sure there will be some decent deals in two years to do just that, if we even need too. 

I would say the older your stars are, the fewer you can fit in. Petey and Huggy are among the best in the world at their positions, but at their current salaries we could afford to ice an entire team of that quality, if we could find them.

 

That is why those of us who are Canucks fans appreciate JB. He is one of the very best at acquiring young quality talent that can carry the team while still playing on their very affordable ELCs. A point towards which the dedicated haters choose to be willfully oblivious.

[Lazurus]

23 hours ago, aGENT said:

On 11/11/2020 at 10:00 PM, Lazurus said:

We do know that Boeser's next deal starts at 105% of his last year salary.

Nope.

BB last year pays him 7.5 mil, the contract was lauded as a good deal because it kept the hit down and insured he would collect on his next deal.

You are correct, I didn't read the CBA thoroughly.

 

(A) if the Player's prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is less than or equal to $660,000 for that League Year, 110% of the prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary.

(B) if the Player's prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is greater than $660,000, but less than $1,000,000 for that League Year, 105% of his prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary, but in no event to exceed $1,000,000.

(C) if the Player's prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is equal to or greater than $1,000,000 for that League year, 100% of the prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary.

(D) if a Player is eligible to receive a Two-Way Qualifying Offer, the Paragraph 1 Minor League Salary component shall not be less than the higher of the Player's prior year's Paragraph 1 Minor League Salary, if any, or the minimum Minor League salary.

 

I guess he could take a hair cut but as good as the contract used to be and it is still not in Eriksson's class, it does set the bar for Miller and Horvat and maybe any other player that scored 55 points a year on this team.

 

Hopefully EP, Demko and QH can be signed for reasonable deals, they might agree to back loaded deals too and help the team through the flat cap period.

[aGENT]

31 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

BB last year pays him 7.5 mil, the contract was lauded as a good deal because it kept the hit down and insured he would collect on his next deal.

You are correct, I didn't read the CBA thoroughly.

 

(A) if the Player's prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is less than or equal to $660,000 for that League Year, 110% of the prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary.

(B) if the Player's prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is greater than $660,000, but less than $1,000,000 for that League Year, 105% of his prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary, but in no event to exceed $1,000,000.

(C) if the Player's prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is equal to or greater than $1,000,000 for that League year, 100% of the prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary.

(D) if a Player is eligible to receive a Two-Way Qualifying Offer, the Paragraph 1 Minor League Salary component shall not be less than the higher of the Player's prior year's Paragraph 1 Minor League Salary, if any, or the minimum Minor League salary.

 

I guess he could take a hair cut but as good as the contract used to be and it is still not in Eriksson's class, it does set the bar for Miller and Horvat and maybe any other player that scored 55 points a year on this team.

 

Hopefully EP, Demko and QH can be signed for reasonable deals, they might agree to back loaded deals too and help the team through the flat cap period.

All it concerns is his qualifying offer, which would, at worst, be one year at that value.

 

We can, and likely will, offer a longer term and at whatever dollar amount he is actually worth. People worry FAR too much about his qualifying offer.

[WeneedLumme]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

All it concerns is his qualifying offer, which would, at worst, be one year at that value.

 

We can, and likely will, offer a longer term and at whatever dollar amount he is actually worth. People worry FAR too much about his qualifying offer.

Yes, assuming that his next contract will be his qualifying offer is silly. How many top end RFAs actually accept their qualifying offers? Teams almost invariably try to get them signed for much longer terms, which provide the security that the players also want.

[Lazurus]

From the start of last season and even though it is not a bad trade for Miller, moving the #1 pick was and indication alone that this was an all in season. The cap was another tip off, so many vets needing new deals and the team capped out, there was no way they could resign even just the significant vets to small raises or no raises at all. The lack of dealing with the future ala contract negotiations with any of the FA's to be was another spotlight that this was an all in season. If there was any doubt, that was squashed with the Toffoli trade for two more pieces of the future and that used up ALL the cap opportunities. IMO a really bad decision in that it didn't help that much and created an atmosphere of Boser trade talk.

 

Being perfect at the TDL was made impossible because even if the team did win some they were destined to lose many players and fan confidence for the next season. They now have Boeser who endured months of trade talk, Virtanen who has had to listen to months of negative media and fan complaints, vets who all have stated they wanted to stay but got no where in talks, which erode fan confidence even more, a management that still hasn't addressed the cap problem they created that exists now and will affect tomorrow to the cost of more of the future, a rebuilding team that has now traded away another top prospect and draft pick for a rental which has to create some confusion as to what the plan is, rebuild or do they think this is enough and all that is needed is one or two more pieces?

 

Coaches not re-signed or negotiated, Maholtra and Green, front office staff not negotiated with, a pure lack of credible information being released to the media at a time when leadership could provide a glimmer of hope for the next two year or more, it is not what they hope will happen, that is for fans, it is what will they do to get there and there is a need for transparency not more confusion.

 

With the situation this team is in and the real possibility of a Canadian division the bragging rights of the country will become demands for success and winning. While other Canadian teams are struggling with their own cap issues the Canucks will still have to bury a contract or two and hope that Ferand is so messed up he can't play because if they put him on LTIR BEFORE the season starts that will limit what they can do later.

This Canadian division will be very exciting, the ancient rivalries may bud again. Playing TO 2 a year is worth a mention but proves nothing, but 6 times and the same with most other teams north of the 49th.

What do you expect will happen if ....say Ottawa beats Calgary, Vancouver or Toronto more than they lose? Forest fire just might start early. The heat from fans will be intense.This is not a guess.

Benning better come up with some sort of plan and be transparent about it just to show he has control of the team's future, show the genius he has being paid millions for that he has at least a vision of how to do things rather than the usual excuses. Two really good draft picks out of 8 first round picks and one decent trade. That can be repeated over and over for another 10 years with fan approval, but light a flame with a Canadian division and maybe being at the bottom is a spalsh of cold water, there will be teams that are just fired for sure.

 

Not much longer to wait now, another month hopefully but this covid wave is just getting started, what needs be done is an artificial freezing of everything and another total lock down. China did that for three weeks and covid disappeared, I know that won't work here because too many people think they are immortal.

 

Here is something to chew on though, the older people are dying faster because the virus essentially is subtracting 10 to 20 years of life from anyone that gets this things

[Fred65]

Quote

Here is something to chew on though, the older people are dying faster because the virus essentially is subtracting 10 to 20 years of life from anyone that gets this things

There's a lot of current fans that will not live to see Vcr win the SC

[Lazurus]

The uncertainty of how long there will be a flat cap could be an advantage for the Canucks in getting the kids signed for around a 7 mil avg for 5 years taking them out to UFA status.

 

Back to the cap, if this management group had anything between their ears they would start negotiations and sign  for all the players now with the concept of a 4 year flat cap. 4 years because of how long it will take for the players, who under the CBA must finance lost money due the owners and get back to eliminating the 20% escrow and 20% salary cut. While not funny the 81 million dollar cap is just a number paraded to the fans, I think the real number is in the 60's or lower.

Anyway that is one reason I advocate trading a good young player like Boeser. He is a winger, he doesn't really drive his line, he has had a couple of severe injuries and I think the wrist is the worse of the two right now but he has charisma, a good reputation for scoring and could help some teams over the hump into the playoffs with just he addition. Again, I come back to Buffalo, Eichel has almost stated he wants out unless...Hmmm, Eichel playing here?

IMO the present state of the team indicates that a minor blow up and retool could be seen as positive, well maybe not so minor but trading Boeser and Hughes to Buffalo for Dahlin and some high picks or prospect (Dylan Cozens) is a big win for both teams, big. It is obvious the benefit to Buffalo, playoffs. For the Canucks it allows for next year to have a plan. Dahlin and Pettersson are pretty much the same or better than Pettersson and Hughes overall, Boeser gives them a speed up on waiting for Cozens and makes Eichel happy, for the Canucks a cap saving at the right time, one year to play out the remainder of bad contracts and get rooikies more ice time, ability to make trades retaining money or for bigger salaries. Now lots of folks will want to start a riot about Boeser but a lot of them were ready to let him go in favor of Toffoli so he can be replaced. In Hughes vs Dahlin, the overall defencman is Dahlin but he has an upside as well, the PP last year without Hughes was on marginally worse. So cap wise, player wise, A PLAN wise it could be an excellent trade and one that the Canucks should even contemplate adding more to get it done. I don't like saying it but Hughes will get better, but not much, his size hurts him in the rough games and eventually Green will have to stop using a rover, as it is Green doesn't use him much defensively if he can help it.

 

These long reads help eat up the time.

[iceman64]

On 10/20/2020 at 3:17 PM, Alain Vigneault said:

Lol.  "Benning's plan"

 

Bold of you to assume he might be here past this season. People need to realize that with the success in this last past season and the moves he made to trade picks for talent (Toffoli, now Schmidt), the bar has been raised and its now 2nd round and beyond or bust going forward.  Maybe he can gets an additional year but then that just means that Green's going to be the fall-guy.  How many coaches does a GM get to oversee before the fingers finally turn to him?  Not many I'd imagine.

 

This will be an important year for Benning.  No more leeway, no more screwups, just big plays and big moves. 

 

Let's see if he has it in his locker...

Thanks for that, took me more than a few mins to stop laughing!  You weren't actually serious were you? 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by iceman64