TG, the best in the country??

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, the grinder said:

i guess other teams that use it are just as moronic then  

Most other teams move away from it when it's not working though.

[Stormriders]

8 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I like Green as a coach, & think he's good for our rebuilt group. That said, he'd best adjust, progress & evolve on the same timeline/learning-curve, we fans are hoping occurs with our nascent youngins'.

 

Have a sliiiight grievance (ORLY?) with how he handled our roster, vs the Lost Vegans, but have adequately tossed my (2 cents worth) opinion 

into that discussion :^)

Nascent, wow what a great word.  I learn every day, thank you.

[Goal:thecup]

12 hours ago, canuktravella said:

brown is a moron not sure why benning thhinks the drop pass pp is a think that works  

The ironing is delicious.

[IBatch]

On 12/10/2020 at 6:29 AM, iceman64 said:

Ok so I couldn't sleep so I went looking for something hockey related as usual and got the shock of my life, ok maybe not quite BUT I stared at the screen and thought I must be seeing things! 

 I happened up an article in the Toronto Sun by Wayne Simmons and honestly I have no idea his history but my mouth dropped, after I read about the goalies and then he switched to talking about the coaches Canada wide and then he says Travis Green may be the best in the country.. I don't know about that but I was like, wait what??? did I read that right?? a Toronto Sun media writer said that??

 Honestly if I didn't read that myself and you told me that someone said that on the Toronto Sun, I'd have laughed it off and said, nice try! more like b.s.! no way! 

 After last season though and as far as we got, he did great! If it weren't for TG wanting to stay in Vancouver he'd be on other team's radar and I'm sure he is already but he made it clear he wants to stay and finish what he helped start.

 (Thankfully I may add)

 Simmons also mentioned Demko and Holtby, and if Holtby will return to form (I'd be almost willing to bet $ he will) Holtby is  excited but in a condensed season, us having a ex Vesina winner on the team for insurance is a plan B that I'm happy took place after Marky left. 

 Anyway wtg Travis, seems like your on pace with the team. keep it up! 

 Still hard to believe that read came from the center of the universe (Toronto) 

https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/simmons-hello-all-canadian-division-of-nhl-goodbye-netflix/wcm/a35e33c2-aee4-4154-b34c-574ce065e07c/amp/

 

Thanks for posting.   For the last two years I’ve regularly tried to post some of the many positive things (usually tidbits from THN or SN) that I’ve noticed about the Canucks - from the “eastern bias “ media in direct challenge to some of the things I’ve read on here - saying that in print media at least you really don’t get that much negative spin, and often praise, the “eastern bias” isn’t nearly as bad as it sometimes is portrayed.    
 

Especially since BB rookie season.   It’s fun to see envy on our young group of guys both reading between the lines and outright saying it. BB, EP and QHs have all been on the cover of THN, some more then once.   They did make some comments about JBs questionable moves the first couple of years but weren’t nasty about it... but for three years the tune or flavour has gone up and up - positivity..future is bright stuff..some quite extreme (EP listed as the 8th best in the league doing their annual top 50 going into the season and Horvat making the cut for the first time ahead of Zibanejad and M Tkachuk), forms  recognition and acknowledgment.    Vancouver is viewed as and up and coming force, and for sure the playoffs was out coming out party.   17 games, all the young guys driving the bus - and with TG at the wheel.   Wonder how the votes would have changed for the Adams if they were done after the playoffs...I’m sure he’d get more then he got which still was good enough for 10. 

As an aside...Last year Larkin predicted we’d be the next team to win a cup (that hasn’t yet) and that we’d make the playoffs and win a round (before the season started) ... this year their (THN) overall consensus is we will finish 11th overall, and a different  writer has us in the final beating Tampa Bay for the cup.   Only Vegas, Tampa Bay, and Vancouver were predicted to make the final out of their entire group, although only one had Vancouver in the final..and winning the cup.    Folks are for sure noticing both the team - and our incredibly gifted young core, and our top ten coach. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, the grinder said:

i guess other teams that use it are just as moronic then  

They all do.   I understand the frustration...but it’s a refreshing new look after a decade of watching the spin cycle go from the best in the league for two short years - then nose dive into the bottom third of the league for the remainder.   BB took our 23 ranked PP and brought it up to 9 his rookie season. EP came in and when QHs arrived got it up to 4th.   Brown isn’t going anywhere no matter how good our players are if it stays in the 25% range.   And just for fun go and look at the players in the top ten league wide power players.   Wow.   The top five?   Are our kids really that good compared to them?  Hope so. 

[Chickenspear]

19 minutes ago, IBatch said:

They all do.   I understand the frustration...but it’s a refreshing new look after a decade of watching the spin cycle go from the best in the league for two short years - then nose dive into the bottom third of the league for the remainder.   BB took our 23 ranked PP and brought it up to 9 his rookie season. EP came in and when QHs arrived got it up to 4th.   Brown isn’t going anywhere no matter how good our players are if it stays in the 25% range.   And just for fun go and look at the players in the top ten league wide power players.   Wow.   The top five?   Are our kids really that good compared to them?  Hope so. 

I honestly have no issue with the offensive zone strategy, it's just painful to watch the same zone entry attempts get broken up time after time, especially evident vs. Vegas in the playoffs. Against those that can shut it down at the blueline like that, you need to have your forwards hit the line with speed, ready to get in on the forecheck if you have to chip and chase to get set up. Bo and JT are 2 guys that can do that, and with the drop pass, they've lost all forward momentum at the line as the puck carrier comes up the ice.

 

I look at that, and I see a chance for higher potential on an already good PP.

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, Chickenspear said:

I honestly have no issue with the offensive zone strategy, it's just painful to watch the same zone entry attempts get broken up time after time, especially evident vs. Vegas in the playoffs. Against those that can shut it down at the blueline like that, you need to have your forwards hit the line with speed, ready to get in on the forecheck if you have to chip and chase to get set up. Bo and JT are 2 guys that can do that, and with the drop pass, they've lost all forward momentum at the line as the puck carrier comes up the ice.

 

I look at that, and I see a chance for higher potential on an already good PP.

Agree with that.   And when they try something else they usually fail (when they get frustrated and just try to skate it in)...part of me thinks they should dump it more and chase it down to regain possession - I’d be Motte would be a good addition to the second unit if they used this more in their tool box - Miller and Horvat of course on the first unit.

 

Both Myers and QHs and now Schmidt can skate it in with good success - but still the drop pass is the most successful way to keep possession and gain the zone out of all strategies league wide - which is why it’s used so often.   QHs is elite at gaining the zone - in the top 98-99% tile - however that only means it works around half the time.    The drop pass works at a better rate regardless of who’s carrying the puck in....so we won’t see it go away anytime soon.   Dump and chase works too, but a good PK just runs the clock down with this method ..

[smithers joe]

i don’t want to be a jerk here, but i’m interested to know from the brown haters, what system of entry would you use with this team? personally from my limited  hockey knowledge, there are 2 methods of entry into the offensive zone, carry it in or dump it in. if your team can’t get in on the puck soon enough, then shooting it in isn’t effective. most teams are ready to break up the entry at the blue line. maybe the drop pass is a little too excessive at times taking the puck in, but it allows the puck carrier to enter the zone faster and  in a hole in the other teams defensive zone. of course it isn’t going to work all the time but players don’t have crystal balls saying whether or not which ones will work.  what systems do fans think will work the best with this team, and what 5 players would you have on the pp?

[Chickenspear]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Agree with that.   And when they try something else they usually fail (when they get frustrated and just try to skate it in)...part of me thinks they should dump it more and chase it down to regain possession - I’d be Motte would be a good addition to the second unit if they used this more in their tool box - Miller and Horvat of course on the first unit.

 

Both Myers and QHs and now Schmidt can skate it in with good success - but still the drop pass is the most successful way to keep possession and gain the zone out of all strategies league wide - which is why it’s used so often.   QHs is elite at gaining the zone - in the top 98-99% tile - however that only means it works around half the time.    The drop pass works at a better rate regardless of who’s carrying the puck in....so we won’t see it go away anytime soon.   Dump and chase works too, but a good PK just runs the clock down with this method ..

Absolutely, hands down, Hughes' skating and puck handling ability made the drop pass play relevant again, since we didn't have to rely on Edler not to turn it over in the neutral zone every time (which was when I really soured on the drop pass). It just needs some variance to keep teams guessing. I'd expect our 2nd unit to put up some more points this season with the addition of Schmidt, and potentially Hoglander as a replacement for Roussel. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

my view on zone entries is that there are 4 zone entries schemes

 

1. the forward carries the puck in

2. the forward dumps the puck in

3. the defenseman dumps the puck in

4. the defenseman carries the puck in

 

How the forward or defenseman gets the puck, is an entirely different question

 

1. retrieves the puck

2. passed the puck

 

Everyone loves to see the puck carried in, but statistically, the plus/minus is poor compared to the dump in. Now in saying that, players of high skill have a much easier time carrying it in than none skilled players. But even then, when there is a turn over at the oppositions blue line the counters are always dangerous, because the dmen are still on the attack as the puck is turned over, causing more out-manned opportunities for the opposition.

 

So, coaches use the dump in, as it produces a better plus/minus ratio (in general), again, some players are far more successful than others.

 

What is the most successful? Well, IMO, the dump in where the forwards are hitting the blueline at full speed (3 across), with the Dman dumping it in past them. Skilled teams do it successfully, unskilled team get burnt.

 

IMO, I think we will see more and more of it, as Virtanen develops, Motte hits his stride, and Hogs and Pods join the team. That and Hughes, Juolevi, and Rathbone further develop. (Hughes will get even better, you know!) not to mention Schmidt is a great possession guy. It is just going to get better and better.

 

Now, if we can just get some god darn hockey going, maybe we could see some of it!

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, smithers joe said:

i don’t want to be a jerk here, but i’m interested to know from the brown haters, what system of entry would you use with this team? personally from my limited  hockey knowledge, there are 2 methods of entry into the offensive zone, carry it in or dump it in. if your team can’t get in on the puck soon enough, then shooting it in isn’t effective. most teams are ready to break up the entry at the blue line. maybe the drop pass is a little too excessive at times taking the puck in, but it allows the puck carrier to enter the zone faster and  in a hole in the other teams defensive zone. of course it isn’t going to work all the time but players don’t have crystal balls saying whether or not which ones will work.  what systems do fans think will work the best with this team, and what 5 players would you have on the pp?

Thanks Joe.  And I wouldn’t say your hockey knowledge is that limited.   And I see your point completely.   Dump and chase was the norm for years ... decades even.  Against the early 90’s team Lumme was often right there to flip his long slow lob back the other way and take 20 or so seconds off the clock.   It’s had its time.   The drop pass is working with the current rules.   Every team does it.   Until it stops because of new coaching systems that figure out a way to make it less then 50% effective each time it won’t go away.    It’s not easy skating a puck in and passing it back to the point or going through more then one body.   It’s usually two or three.   We don’t have that level of skill at the moment.   QHs showed he’s one of the best ... how many times did he get through the Vegas barrier?  One team isn’t the best example either.   It worked against others all season long. 

[Chris12345]

14 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Most other teams move away from it when it's not working though.

Yea exactly. The actual play is good it's just the Canucks can't read and react. 

 

You need 3 options on zone entry and they tend to lean on 1.

 

 

[IBatch]

23 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I like Green as a coach, & think he's good for our rebuilt group. That said, he'd best adjust, progress & evolve on the same timeline/learning-curve, we fans are hoping occurs with our nascent youngins'.

 

Have a sliiiight grievance (ORLY?) with how he handled our roster, vs the Lost Vegans, but have adequately tossed my (2 cents worth) opinion 

into that discussion :^)

So far he has.   What did Babcock (the Donald Trump of coaches) and Sheldon Keefe manage with the Leafs and all their riches so far?   A couple first round failures ha ha.   Careful for which you wish for.   Can’t think of a guy I’d rather have then TG much more other then Trotz.   The level between these guys is razor thin and as long as he has the room, which he most definitely has - he’s our guy.   I’m a little surprised at how some don’t like this guy.   I gather they never saw Keenan do his spin cycle and arrogant stchick. 

[Alienhuggyflow]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

So far he has.   What did Babcock (the Donald Trump of coaches) and Sheldon Keefe manage with the Leafs and all their riches so far?   A couple first round failures ha ha.   Careful for which you wish for.   Can’t think of a guy I’d rather have then TG much more other then Trotz.   The level between these guys is razor thin and as long as he has the room, which he most definitely has - he’s our guy.   I’m a little surprised at how some don’t like this guy.   I gather they never saw Keenan do his spin cycle and arrogant stchick. 

Meh, most of the TG haters are the same that hate Benning. Some always think the grass is greener (lol) on the other side when in reality it isn't. Looking just in Canada he's easily the best imo.