[proposal] Eichel to Vancouver - “thinking out loud.”

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, The Lock said:

I wouldn't do it. I'd even question Horvat for Eichel straight up. I know Eichel's worth more than Horvat, but Horvat's proven to fit on this team. Eichel isn't.

 

So, while I don't question the value, I question it being the right move for this team. I actually think it would be the wrong move.

Cap wise - i'd have to agree.  Eichel and a league minimum guy isn't the same as Horvat and Miller is it...the only guys in the league right now that are worth two players like Horvat/Miller are Drasaitl, McDavid, McKinnon and maybe Kane still - maybe Pastrnak but too early to tell.   Maybe Mathews too. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by IBatch

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Cap wise - i'd have to agree.  Eichel and a league minimum guy isn't the same as Horvat and Miller is it...

There is that too, yes. Having a number of assets that are almost elite and not quite can create one dangerous team at the end of the day. Plus we have Pettersson anyway.

 

I guess the one advantage might be to have Pettersson and Eichel down the middle (which sounds insane on paper), but then can we afford all of Hughes, Boeser, and everyone else in the long run?

[Provost]

On 2/23/2021 at 9:17 AM, Petey_BOI said:

about the 75% thing thats not true, if we win all our games vs winnepeg edmonton and calgary, we stand a good chance of making he playoffs with a .500 record

 

Can you elaborate on the math with that?  15-0 against 3 teams and 0-15 against the other three teams?

 

That doesn’t seem to work out, because it would rely on those teams playing against easy other and neither of them winning... they have so many guaranteed points between them because they all play other cumulatively than we play against them.

 

For us to go .500 the rest of the season and get into the playoff bar means that we would get in with 50 points, well under .500.  That is pretty impossible.  62 points is probably the low end of the cut off.

 

There are 5 teams above us, and one team below us (barely below us).  It is REALLY hard for 2 of those teams to go WAY under .500 in order for us to pass them with only 50 points.  It would require us winning every game against the bubble teams as well as Toronto and Montreal winning all their games against the same teams.

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Provost

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, The Lock said:

There is that too, yes. Having a number of assets that are almost elite and not quite can create one dangerous team at the end of the day. Plus we have Pettersson anyway.

 

I guess the one advantage might be to have Pettersson and Eichel down the middle (which sounds insane on paper), but then can we afford all of Hughes, Boeser, and everyone else in the long run?

For sure a team needs a couple clutch and elite guys to win a cup.    St. Louis could be the exception, but O'Reilly is elite at his craft, and AP plus Tarasenko are close in theirs.   Loaded with next level blue chippers, Schenn, Schwartz, Parayoko - and a big physical team.   I do think for them it was a one off though, they were very good for a lot of years too before they had their chance.  And are still a good team.

 

Personally i prefer a balanced team over top heavy like EDM and TO.  TO has a window right now for sure - as long as they can keep cleaning up on cheap, experienced vets like they did this year, it's a good window too.  

 

But you do need that elite talent in the lineup - which it looks for sure like we do with EP and QHs.   We also have a good amount of blue chip/clutch ability guys in BB, Horvat and Miller.   Our defense is suspect but is looking to get better with OJ.   Team also needs a good supporting cast - ours is in transition now.   Without top ten goaltending a teams dead in the water before the playoffs even start - ours is also in transition.    "Bubble Demko" is top three goaltending lol....hope yet for sure but i'm not convinced yet.  

 

Overall a lot of promise.   BB is showing what these guys should look like when they hit their early prime.   Better all around players.    Horvat is a little like Stamkos is to the rest of their forward core.  The elder statesman.   I'm hoping we can keep him the same way TB did, and that the remainder of the high end talent we have now - and the one we pick this year, puts us into a very good window.    For sure it will be much easier to get the wins in a normal schedule then the one we had this year - on paper our team next won't be much better then the one we have right now .... but that extra year of experience will help.   The way we've played the last 12 games is more like what we should expect from the group, good for .650 with Markstrom like goaltending.   Speaking of which i'm stoked we didn't sign him - and one of the reasons is this team needs to learn how to play better defensively.   Cant allow 35-40 shots a game and expect to win most of them can you?   Especially the high quality ones resulting from a stupid pass across the slot...face palm.

 

 

All i can say JB not signing any of these guys - was the right move if we ever hope to contend with these guys - well at least over the next six years.   Four of which for sure are within our window with this core.  

 

The team we have now is like the end of the Naslund team - see parts of the Sedin team coming in,  but won't look anything like it does now two years from now.   

 

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, Provost said:

Can you elaborate on the math with that?  15-0 against 3 teams and 0-15 against the other three teams?

 

That doesn’t seem to work out, because it would rely on those teams playing against easy other and neither of them winning... they have so many guaranteed points between them because they all play other cumulatively than we play against them.

 

For us to go .500 the rest of the season and get into the playoff bar means that we would get in with 50 points, well under .500.  That is pretty impossible.  62 points is probably the low end of the cut off.

 

There are 5 teams above us, and one team below us (barely below us).  It is REALLY hard for 2 of those teams to go WAY under .500 in order for us to pass them with only 50 points.  It would require us winning every game against the bubble teams as well as Toronto and Montreal winning all their games against the same teams.

 

 

 

Provost if we win every game the rest of the year, and sixteen in the playoffs - i'd give it 75% of winning the cup this year.... (lol.... there is a reason for this - does anyone want to gander on why there is a 25% chance we won't win a cup with 16 wins?)

Edited March 4, 2021 by IBatch

[Tyndall2]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:46 AM, DarkIndianRises said:

[proposal] Eichel to Vancouver - “thinking out loud.”
 

Disclaimer:  I don’t think Eichel will be traded to Vancouver nor do I necessarily recommend it (I’m split in two minds but it would likely be a moot point anyways).  
 

Anyways.....

 

1) If Horvat + Miller + 2021 1st was able to get you Eichel.

 

2) The Canucks long term plan for the top 6 and their top 4 D revolves around....

 

Virtanen-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Eichel-Podkolzin

 

Hughes-####
#####-Schmidt

 

(Im assuming that we wouldn’t be able to keep Pearson due to the cap).

 

A) Do you think we’d have a strong enough foundation to build a cup winning team around?
 

B-) Would a trade like this make us better or worse off in the long run?

 

Do you really think Eichel is that good to demand that kind of return?  I don't.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Tyndall2 said:

Do you really think Eichel is that good to demand that kind of return?  I don't.

He’s having an off year due to his injuries in the summer which prevented him from being able to fully train, but yes, he’s elite.  When healthy, he’s only below McDavid, Drai, Matthews, and Mackinnon as far as centers go.

 

To my earlier idea (which will never happen mind you), I’d still consider the following for next season:

 

Pettersson + Hughes + Miller

 

for

 

Eichel + Dahlin + Reinhart

 

Hoglander-Eichel-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Podkolzin

Virtanen-Reinhart-Gaudette

Roussel-Beagle-Motte

 

Dahlin-Schmidt

Juolevi-Myers

Rathbone-Tryamkin

 

Demko

Holtby

 

 

 

 

[Me_]

On 2/22/2021 at 4:45 PM, PhillipBlunt said:

Gretzky, Linden, Chara say hi.

Indeed.

Here is the full list for everyone:

 

NYR75 Park

EDM88 Gretzky

MTL90 Chelios

HFD91 Francis

EDM91 Messier

MTL94 Carbonneau

MTL95 Muller

MTL95 Keane

LAK96 Gretzky

MTL96 Turgeon

TOR97 Gilmore

MTL99 Damphousse

BOS00 Bourque

PIT01 Jagr

BOS05 Thornton 

EDM07 Smith

ATL10 Kovalchuk

PHI11 Richards

DAL13 Morrow

CGY13 Iginla

MIN13 Pomminville

NYI13 Streit

NYR14 St-Louis

TBL14 Callahan

OTT14 Spezza

TOR16 Phaneuf

 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Me_

[KKnight]

On 3/4/2021 at 9:45 AM, DarkIndianRises said:

He’s having an off year due to his injuries in the summer which prevented him from being able to fully train, but yes, he’s elite.  When healthy, he’s only below McDavid, Drai, Matthews, and Mackinnon as far as centers go.

 

To my earlier idea (which will never happen mind you), I’d still consider the following for next season:

 

Pettersson + Hughes + Miller

 

for

 

Eichel + Dahlin + Reinhart

 

Hoglander-Eichel-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Podkolzin

Virtanen-Reinhart-Gaudette

Roussel-Beagle-Motte

 

Dahlin-Schmidt

Juolevi-Myers

Rathbone-Tryamkin

 

Demko

Holtby

 

 

 

 

That's a rip off for us. No way I strip away the fabric of our team, for an overpaid complainer. Yes, Eichel is a fantastic player, but worth Petey. I guarantee Peteys contract is going to be less cap hit than Eichels. Hughes has proven more than Dahlin to this point, really think Rasmus is a good player, but as good as Hughes (I'm not sure). Miller for Reinhart? Nope. Miller isn't playing his best hockey, but last year he lead our team In scoring and solidified himself as one of the best power forwards in the league. He's awesome at faceoffs, great complement to Petey, great on the pk (although those turnovers are killing us) and he wants to win. Easy decline. 

[PhillipBlunt]

3 hours ago, Me_ said:

Indeed.

Here is e full list for everyone:

 

NYR75 Park

EDM88 Gretzky

MTL90 Chelios

HFD91 Francis

EDM91 Messier

MTL94 Carbonneau

MTL95 Muller

MTL95 Keane

LAK96 Gretzky

MTL96 Turgeon

TOR97 Gilmore

MTL99 Damphousse

BOS00 Bourque

PIT01 Jagr

BOS05 Thornton 

EDM07 Smith

ATL10 Kovalchuk

PHI11 Richards

DAL13 Morrow

CGY13 Igonla

MIN13 Pomminville

NYI13 Streit

NYR14 St-Louis

TBL14 Callahan

OTT14 Spezza

TOR16 Phaneuf

 

 

Nice list. Appreciate the research.