Linden. So...

[UFCanuck]

Linden was getting booed during the rebuild, I'm happy he left to save his image. This fanbase is ruthless and would boo the Sedins if they were the managers.

[Canucklehead73]

Pretty much speculation... Nobody knows why Linden really left.

[ShawnAntoski]

On 2/25/2021 at 11:22 PM, DefCon1 said:

I wish we had Linden

 Could have been our Sakic for this rebuild. Linden was right about how we should not sign big name FAs as we werent ready yet. Linden was also right with regards to allowing our team accumulate picks instead of trading them for mediocre players or players that we dont even sign like Toffoli. They really screwed up the rebuild because with our scouting we would had even more prospects stepping in. Remember the 2nd and Madden that we gave up for 10 games of Toffoli? I mean if Benning knew we wouldnt be able to sign Toffoli why even trade for him? So many bonehead moves that were easily preventable.

If this is true, Aquaman made a bad choice by letting go of Linden, should had fired Weisbrod instead cause from a far, he seems like someone who plays the office games very well without actually taking any accountability...  Aquaman was a first time owner and early on in his tenure he bought a team that is on the cusp of competing and this is his first experience as owner with a team that is later and (now) just beginning a new developmental curve.  PERHAPS JB & Weisbrod was able to convince him that a rebuild is not neccessary; this is probably why Linden resigned cause Aquaman heard what he wanted to hear from JB & Weisbrod and then sided with them.  Imo, this is on Aquaman and hopefully he will hire a team president that can work with JB and replace the corporate animal in Weisbrod with someone that can disagree with JB when needed - especially, during FA, trades and contract negotiations....

 

At this point, I would prefer to see them tweak the assistants till the end of the season before trading any assets unless it is an older vet for picks.

Edited February 28, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:26 AM, Tre Mac said:

And he sewered Linden and the Nucks are now stuck with bloated payroll and they wasted Petey and Hughes ELC's.  You reap what you sow, Linden went back to his successful business ventures and his family.  Benning will be gone and Ownership has to repair all the damage done.

With hindsight, Aquaman chose the wrong path with the club for a quick re tool but we dont know if Lindens path would had resulted with the Canucks ending up with this young core.  Two more years of cap hell, especially, if the flat cap continues...

[ShawnAntoski]

On 2/27/2021 at 11:36 AM, playboi19 said:

Linden was getting booed during the rebuild, I'm happy he left to save his image. This fanbase is ruthless and would boo the Sedins if they were the managers.

Good point about the media and fanbase in a hockey crazed town such as Vancouver but (imo) nothing unique to our town. All this drama keeps the fanbase engage and paying.  GCG !

[stuman491]

On 2/26/2021 at 5:57 AM, danjr said:

I am so curious what hindsight would be with Benning and Aquilini at this point.
Would dearly love to know Linden's true vision for how to go about the rebuild before he left.  At this point I feel we have stepped back from a few seasons ago even.
This team is utterly disgusting in every element on the ice.  There are few crisp passes.  Everyone is fumbling and fighting pucks.  Our tenders just aren't sharp even (well demmer is getting hotter).  Could his team building process have prevented, limited or negated this ineffective team?  

In my heart I think he had the right path, but everyone else wanted to choose a quicker more risky route.  That really looks like it's backfired at this point.  Sure we have some incredible pieces.  But if those pieces can't get you into the playoffs, how in the hell can you reach the ultimate goal?  Next year may be more of the same.

I have always wondered what the real story was.  I fee like JB just nods his head and says yes to anything Aqualini asks.  I am guessing that after dealing with Gillis and Burke that is what ownership wanted.  Just because Linden was always my favourite player I imagine he say the stupidity of what JB was doing and spoke up.  And since JB was taking his orders from the top ownership didn't appreciate being told their way of building a team wouldn't work and Linden was out.  This is of course all pure fabrication, but that is how I imagine it went.  

[stuman491]

On 2/26/2021 at 6:52 AM, khay said:

I didn't say that it can be fixed this season.

 

But it is easily fixable beyond this season. We just need someone smart that can identify the problems and make the right deals.

 

I agree it is fixable, but not after this season. Hughes and Peterson will eat up all of the cap space generated by Sutter, Baertschi, Edler, Pearson, Benn and Hamonic coming off the books.  Somehow we are going to have to replace three defensemen that are currently playing in our top 6, our third line center and a second line winger.  Next season could be worse than this one.

Edited March 1, 2021 by stuman491

[nux_win]

Linden.  So what?  I mean I liked him as a player, and he's a decent guy, but what relevance does he have for the current team?  Hindsight?  What value does that have?  We're never going to know what would have been had he stayed.  He moved on.  That's that.  Looking backwards instead of forwards doesn't improve the team any.  Obviously we need to do something differently but crying over spilled milk doesn't seem to be the right approach as far as I'm concerned.  Go Canucks Go!

[CaptKirk888]

On 2/25/2021 at 10:40 PM, linden17 said:

We were average. Not good. Not bad. Average. I’m sorry but it’s because we were average that we couldn’t score on a good, not great, performance from Smith. 

32 saves, a ton of quality shots. I disagree.

[CaptKirk888]

On 2/26/2021 at 5:23 PM, dougieL said:

Linden was a great player for us and a franchise icon, but for all those that are blaming Benning, Linden's decision to prioritize the interests of two individual players over the long term health of the franchise cannot be forgotten. Does Benning deserve blame for some bad moves? Yes. All the blame for all the bad moves? Absolutely not.

 

 

On 2/26/2021 at 5:28 PM, Honky Cat said:

This 100%

I'd say we wasted 2 years 'rebuilding on the fly', and 'win with the twins'

Trevor was in charge of the overall franchise direction, so thats on him.

This does not absolve Benning for some of his bad signings trades at the time.

Do both of you really think Benning could make decisions without Linden’s input? Or vise versa? They’re both to “blame”.

[khay]

31 minutes ago, stuman491 said:

I agree it is fixable, but not after this season. Hughes and Peterson will eat up all of the cap space generated by Sutter, Baertschi, Edler, Pearson, Benn and Hamonic coming off the books.  Somehow we are going to have to replace three defensemen that are currently playing in our top 6, our third line center and a second line winger.  Next season could be worse than this one.

The cap hit on those players add up to around 20 mil and I highly doubt Petey and QH signing 10mil deals.

 

10+ mil is reserved for proven cup winners (Toewes, Kane, Kopitar, Doughty) or consistent elite producers at young age at the level of McDavid and Matthews (and Marner whose agent took advantage of the situation in TO with Matthews) or select UFAs that have earned the contract from the past performances like Tavares, Karlsson (although he ain't earning it right now).

 

EP and QH aren't in any of the three categories yet. I think they sign bridge deals between 7-8.

 

Next season could be better or worse, I think it will be better.

 

- EP, QH, and Hoglander will be one year older and hopefully take the next steps.

- Brock and Juolevi likely to continue their upward trajectory.

- Podkolzin will join the team so might Lind.

- We might get lucky and get a top 3 pick.

 

The reason to think that it might be worse next season:

 

- Failing to improve on the defence.

- Below average bottom 6.

- Missing a scoring winger.

 

I would trade for a RHD, improve bottom 6 from within, and dump salary to add a scoring winger from UFA.

 

Unless we win the lottery or suck so bad for the rest of the season to get a top 5 pick, I would consider moving that pick with an asset like Gaudette to find a trade partner for an elite level RHD. Heck, I would consider moving the pick even if it's a top 5 pick if a right deal comes along.

 

We also need to improve the bottom 6, which shouldn't be too difficult. We have Podkolzin and Lind who could make the jump. I'd also bring back Sutter on a short term deal so as to not leave any gaping hole.

 

Adding a top 6 winger would be challenging as it requires dumping Eriksson and/or Roussel's salary. It might be possible since they will only have 1 year left on their contracts. 

Maybe RNH if he wants to come back home? Landeskog if he ever makes it to UFA?

 

Top 6: Pettersson, Boeser, Miller, Horvat, Hoglander 

Bottom 6: Motte, Beagle, Sutter, Podkolzin, MacEwen, Lind, Virtanen/Gaud (one gets traded)

Defence: QH, Schmidt, Myers, Edler, Juolevi

Goaltending: Demko, Holtby

 

It's a bit depressing but Toffoli and Tanev would have made the team pretty much complete and at reasonable cap hit under 9 mil.

 

[khay]

1 hour ago, stuman491 said:

I have always wondered what the real story was.  I fee like JB just nods his head and says yes to anything Aqualini asks.  I am guessing that after dealing with Gillis and Burke that is what ownership wanted.  Just because Linden was always my favourite player I imagine he say the stupidity of what JB was doing and spoke up.  And since JB was taking his orders from the top ownership didn't appreciate being told their way of building a team wouldn't work and Linden was out.  This is of course all pure fabrication, but that is how I imagine it went.  

That's probably true to some extent.

 

Manager can make suggestions but it's up to the owner on how he wants things done and that's how things are in any job. As an employee, if you have philosophical differences with the owner, you will just have to leave the job.

 

We have a local owner who is pretty hands-on, which can be a good thing since he is willing to spend to improve the team but could be a bad thing too.

 

[khay]

17 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

With hindsight, Aquaman chose the wrong path with the club for a quick re tool but we dont know if Lindens path would had resulted with the Canucks ending up with this young core.  Two more years of cap hell, especially, if the flat cap continues...

I think both Acqullini and Linden were partly right and partly wrong.

 

Linden, wanting a full Toronto style rebuild (rumoured), was a bit off in evaluating the prospect pool that we had. This is evident from us making the playoffs and going to the 2nd round last season when the only major tinkering was addition of Miller and maybe Pearson. He was right in that we need few more seasons to become consistent contenders and we might as well stockpile on high-end prospects in those few years while the young core develops.

 

Acquillini basically never wanted a rebuild, resulting in plain bad signings such as Roussel and Eriksson but also decent signings like Myers who have contributed to the team playing good hockey last season. The owner's decision to push for playoffs have resulted in team taking a step back this season as we failed to re-sign some key players due to bad decisions in the past but had they not pushed for playoffs, we would not have witnessed 2020 playoffs.

 

 

 

[ShawnAntoski]

10 minutes ago, khay said:

I think both Acqullini and Linden were partly right and partly wrong.

 

Linden, wanting a full Toronto style rebuild (rumoured), was a bit off in evaluating the prospect pool that we had. This is evident from us making the playoffs and going to the 2nd round last season when the only major tinkering was addition of Miller and maybe Pearson. He was right in that we need few more seasons to become consistent contenders and we might as well stockpile on high-end prospects in those few years while the young core develops.

 

Acquillini basically never wanted a rebuild, resulting in plain bad signings such as Roussel and Eriksson but also decent signings like Myers who have contributed to the team playing good hockey last season. The owner's decision to push for playoffs have resulted in team taking a step back this season as we failed to re-sign some key players due to bad decisions in the past but had they not pushed for playoffs, we would not have witnessed 2020 playoffs.

 

 

 

I undertstand the need to push for a playoff last year from Aquamans' & JB perspective, both are first time owner & GM (at the same time) and with it comes some growing pains.  Moving forward I hope to not see the same mistakes to happen (but who knows) and I hope Aquamans' first order of business is to hire a team president that can work with JB & replace Weisbrod as Asst GM.

Edited March 1, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Westcoasting]

28 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

I undertstand the need to push for a playoff last year from Aquamans' & JB perspective, both are first time owner & GM (at the same time) and with it comes some growing pains.  Moving forward I hope to not see the same mistakes to happen (but who knows) and I hope Aquamans' first order of business is to hire a team president that can work with JB & replace Weisbrod as Asst GM.

What will replacing Weisbrod do for the team?

[Honky Cat]

4 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

 

Do both of you really think Benning could make decisions without Linden’s input? Or vise versa? They’re both to “blame”.

It's a reported fact that Linden was in on all the teams big trades and signings.

Benning was equally complicit, as most of the players targeted, start, and end with him

Both to blame.

The last 3.5 years have been solely Benning.

 

[ShawnAntoski]

3 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

What will replacing Weisbrod do for the team?

Just my opinion from the outside: he has been a (failed) GM before in the NBA & The Flakes and if JB is getting advice from him then he should take some heat for the cap issue as well..

 

Also, both JB & Green are replaced, I would not want a Baumer & Weisbrod for the interim - smh.

Edited March 1, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[linden17]

5 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

32 saves, a ton of quality shots. I disagree.

Hey, that’s why these forums are here. He played well I just think we could’ve played better and made better decisions. It wasn’t a “must see” goaltending moment in my opinion 

[RU SERIOUS]

On 2/25/2021 at 9:57 PM, danjr said:

I am so curious what hindsight would be with Benning and Aquilini at this point.
Would dearly love to know Linden's true vision for how to go about the rebuild before he left.  At this point I feel we have stepped back from a few seasons ago even.
This team is utterly disgusting in every element on the ice.  There are few crisp passes.  Everyone is fumbling and fighting pucks.  Our tenders just aren't sharp even (well demmer is getting hotter).  Could his team building process have prevented, limited or negated this ineffective team?  

In my heart I think he had the right path, but everyone else wanted to choose a quicker more risky route.  That really looks like it's backfired at this point.  Sure we have some incredible pieces.  But if those pieces can't get you into the playoffs, how in the hell can you reach the ultimate goal?  Next year may be more of the same.

You hit the nail on the head. Linden wanted to build a solid foundation from the bottom up while Aqua-Lini wanted to rush the build and get the fastest results no matter what.  Now we see the results.   This is another in the never ending saga of Aqua-Lini tampering going back years.  He should stick to building plastic covered, double walled/cardboard, Army Base style cookie-cutter worker houses in the suburbs.

[CaptKirk888]

55 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

It's a reported fact that Linden was in on all the teams big trades and signings.

Benning was equally complicit, as most of the players targeted, start, and end with him

Both to blame.

The last 3.5 years have been solely Benning.

 

Links please.