Nikita Coming Back or No?

[Provost]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

I'd WAY rather move Myers.

 

And that's from someone who endlessly defends him/his contract against the constant onslaught of idiocy around both.

In a vacuum sure...  but it likely wouldn’t be as easy to move Myers, if we left him exposed in expansion there is at least even odds he doesn’t get take... it would probably be very easy to move Schmidt after the expansion draft (when a number of teams lose a top

4 D to Seattle).  
 

We also have a plethora of natural LD and fewer RD in the organization.  I know Schmidt can play both sides, but that is suboptimal.

 

To me, the return for Schmidt makes it worthwhile to move on from him and use that cap space elsewhere.

 

We shouldn’t have four of our top 6D on them wrong side of 30 (Edler, Hamonic, Myers, Schmidt) that isn’t a recipe for success.  We need to at least start filtering in some younger guys.

 

We have Tryamkin, Juolevi, and Rathbone that are ready to start getting regular NHL minutes, and only one spot for them.

To me, Myers should be exposed in expansion... if he isn’t selected, then make a deal to move Schmidt after expansion and get a high end 3C and and pick/prospect back.

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, Provost said:

In a vacuum sure...  but it likely wouldn’t be as easy to move Myers, if we left him exposed in expansion there is at least even odds he doesn’t get take... it would probably be very easy to move Schmidt after the expansion draft (when a number of teams lose a top

4 D to Seattle).  

The reason he'd be easier to move, is because he's a better, more valuable player. The kind you should keep. There's also going to be a load of teams lose their 4th best D. I don't think Myers would be hard at all to move. And likely better than even odds to be selected by SEA as well given he'd be by FAR, our best, exposed player.

 

8 minutes ago, Provost said:

We also have a plethora of natural LD and fewer RD in the organization.  I know Schmidt can play both sides, but that is suboptimal.

Meh. Better player = better.

 

8 minutes ago, Provost said:

 

To me, the return for Schmidt makes it worthwhile to move on from him and use that cap space elsewhere.

Ditto the lesser, higher cap space player in Myers.

 

8 minutes ago, Provost said:

We shouldn’t have four of our top 6D on them wrong side of 30 (Edler, Hamonic, Myers, Schmidt) that isn’t a recipe for success.  We need to at least start filtering in some younger guys.

 

We have Tryamkin, Juolevi, and Rathbone that are ready to start getting regular NHL minutes, and only one spot for them.

That's a very short term issue. And Tryamkin needs to show he actually deserves a spot over one of these guys.

 

8 minutes ago, Provost said:

To me, Myers should be exposed in expansion... if he isn’t selected, then make a deal to move Schmidt after expansion and get a high end 3C and and pick/prospect back.

Totally disagree.

[canuckleheads fan]

On 4/22/2021 at 11:33 AM, aGENT said:

Again, nothing against Myers, he's a solid, 2nd pair D who gets far too much, unwarranted hate on here.

 

But Schmidt is both better and on a cheaper deal. If you're picking the guy to keep of the two, it's pretty easy IMO.

 

And as you say, Tryamkin would replace his size (albeit likely at a third pair level). But assuming we bring back Hamonic (or sign Larsson or Savard) I'd way, WAY rather move Myers in that scenario.

One problem, Schmidt and Tryamkin are lefties, while Myers is right handed.  Over the past year, it's become obvious to me why Green likes to play defensemen on their natural sides, it is a significant advantage in both the offensive and defensive zones.  It's far more acute for defensemen than for forwards.  I would much rather have a right handed Myers playing the second pairing right side than Schmidt.  JB will likely resign Hamonic to a two or three year deal for what sounds like we'll get a hometown discount because Travis likes playing in Vancouver for family reasons.  So Hughes and Hamonic will likely be a paring again next season.  I can see Schmidt and Myers on the second pairing and because of the flat cap, OJ and maybe Rathbone if he's ready as the third pairing with Chatfield and Sautner or Breezer as 7-8, again to save money.  There is no way that Tryamkin signs for ELC level dollars, and the Canucks cannot afford much more than that in the bottom pairing.  I think the Canucks trade his rights for either assets or picks.  Of course that doesn't take into account a resigning of Edler, but I'm not sure that we could afford him at even half of what he's currently making, and that ends up blocking the development of our young players, who we need to develop for a run in two or three seasons. 

[RU SERIOUS]

8 hours ago, canuckleheads fan said:

One problem, Schmidt and Tryamkin are lefties, while Myers is right handed.  Over the past year, it's become obvious to me why Green likes to play defensemen on their natural sides, it is a significant advantage in both the offensive and defensive zones.  It's far more acute for defensemen than for forwards.  I would much rather have a right handed Myers playing the second pairing right side than Schmidt.  JB will likely resign Hamonic to a two or three year deal for what sounds like we'll get a hometown discount because Travis likes playing in Vancouver for family reasons.  So Hughes and Hamonic will likely be a paring again next season.  I can see Schmidt and Myers on the second pairing and because of the flat cap, OJ and maybe Rathbone if he's ready as the third pairing with Chatfield and Sautner or Breezer as 7-8, again to save money.  There is no way that Tryamkin signs for ELC level dollars, and the Canucks cannot afford much more than that in the bottom pairing.  I think the Canucks trade his rights for either assets or picks.  Of course that doesn't take into account a resigning of Edler, but I'm not sure that we could afford him at even half of what he's currently making, and that ends up blocking the development of our young players, who we need to develop for a run in two or three seasons. 

Great Post !    I agree, with everything you've said and exactly my sentiments.  I highly doubt we'll ever see Tryamkin in a Canucks uniform next season and resigning Edler should only be done at a heavy discount with the understanding that he'll play less minutes although the likelihood is he'll end up injured as usual in a regular 82 games season.  No matter, it is very very important to get at least 2 more younger D's in the line-up with Quinn as the rest of our D's are moving into senior-citizen status, so we must get some talent ready NOW to replace them.

[Smashian Kassian]

So many defenseman for next season, I count 8 legit options for 6 spots, just within our own organization;

 

Hughes

Schmidt

Myers

Juolevi

 

Hamonic

Edler

Tryamkin

 

Rathbone

 

How high on the priority list does Tryamkin rank amongst the group not under contract? (+ Rathbone) 

 

Where does signing him leave Alex Edler? He's going to want a chance to play, I don't think they'll be able to bring him in as a #7.

 

I'd like to bring Hamonic back, I think he's a great fit. But if they are interested in Tryamkin then I imagine Hamonic or Edler wont be back. They wouldn't just walk away from Edler at 35, would they? Or would they just give up on Juolevi?

[Provost]

25 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

So many defenseman for next season, I count 8 legit options for 6 spots, just within our own organization;

 

Hughes

Schmidt

Myers

Juolevi

 

Hamonic

Edler

Tryamkin

 

Rathbone

 

How high on the priority list does Tryamkin rank amongst the group not under contract? (+ Rathbone) 

 

Where does signing him leave Alex Edler? He's going to want a chance to play, I don't think they'll be able to bring him in as a #7.

 

I'd like to bring Hamonic back, I think he's a great fit. But if they are interested in Tryamkin then I imagine Hamonic or Edler wont be back. They wouldn't just walk away from Edler at 35, would they? Or would they just give up on Juolevi?

Assuming we don't expose Myers and he gets picked up by Seattle, someone has to go.

To me, I just look at it dollar wise... we don't have much money and who will be the better bargains and/or fetch more return if they are the odd man out.

It actually seems like we could trade Schmidt "IF" Edler and Hamonic were willing to sign for low dollars ($3 million each max) and short term contracts of 1-2 years then that is hard to pass up on.  You could say to walk away from Edler, but he is still one of our best D even at his age... and with the particular circumstances of both he and Hamonic really limiting their own choices in free agency you need to leverage that for efficient value contracts.
At the same time, we can't have all our D be over 30 and need to slowly insert younger guys into the mix but not all at one time.  Myers wouldn't fetch much on the market, though worth a try before moving Schmidt.

For me, get a return for Schmidt after expansion.  Trade Juolevi for a pick and a cap dump.  Defence will be worth more right after expansion once several teams have lost a top 4 guy to Seattle.  Rathbone has a higher ceiling than Juolevi and is NHL ready.  It would be hard to have both guys in the top 6 next year, on top of having a fairly inexperienced Hughes/Tryamkin.

We can run next year with:

Hughes-Hamonic
Rathbone-Myers
Edler-Tryamkin
Bowie

Hughes and Rathbone are the two PP choices.  Edler and Tryamkin are primary PKers.

We get Edler and Hamonic at the price of just Edler this year.  Tryamkin is around $2 million, and Hughes is probably $6-6.5 million.  We get some assets and cap relief from the Schmidt/Juolevi trades that can help us get a high end 3C.  We pick a D with our 1st rounder this year and hope that guy starts being ready in a couple years when Edler/Hamonic are ready to be put out to pasture... or we can then afford to find another top 4D in free agency or trade.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Provost

[smokes]

Imagine Forbert seeing Tryamkin on the ice while thinking to himself if he should take a run at Hoglander or not?

[Fred65]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

Assuming we don't expose Myers and he gets picked up by Seattle, someone has to go.

To me, I just look at it dollar wise... we don't have much money and who will be the better bargains and/or fetch more return if they are the odd man out.

It actually seems like we could trade Schmidt "IF" Edler and Hamonic were willing to sign for low dollars ($3 million each max) and short term contracts of 1-2 years then that is hard to pass up on.  You could say to walk away from Edler, but he is still one of our best D even at his age... and with the particular circumstances of both he and Hamonic really limiting their own choices in free agency you need to leverage that for efficient value contracts.
At the same time, we can't have all our D be over 30 and need to slowly insert younger guys into the mix but not all at one time.  Myers wouldn't fetch much on the market, though worth a try before moving Schmidt.

For me, get a return for Schmidt after expansion.  Trade Juolevi for a pick and a cap dump.  Defence will be worth more right after expansion once several teams have lost a top 4 guy to Seattle.  Rathbone has a higher ceiling than Juolevi and is NHL ready.  It would be hard to have both guys in the top 6 next year, on top of having a fairly inexperienced Hughes/Tryamkin.

We can run next year with:

Hughes-Hamonic
Rathbone-Myers
Edler-Tryamkin
Bowie

Hughes and Rathbone are the two PP choices.  Edler and Tryamkin are primary PKers.

We get Edler and Hamonic at the price of just Edler this year.  Tryamkin is around $2 million, and Hughes is probably $6-6.5 million.  We get some assets and cap relief from the Schmidt/Juolevi trades that can help us get a high end 3C.  We pick a D with our 1st rounder this year and hope that guy starts being ready in a couple years when Edler/Hamonic are ready to be put out to pasture... or we can then afford to find another top 4D in free agency or trade.

Pretty good and more important fair analysis Edler remains a D that eats up minutes and saves younger players from the tough work of defending. Harmonic is 30 and offers much the same as Schmidt who is 29. Harmonic shows more grit than Schmidt but will he weather health wise as well as Edler. Myers is 30   and despite the odd screw up for the most part plays a balanced game and has more offensive plays in his tool box. On the left side Juolevi has been unable to fill a top 4 role, he's 23 next month. Although he has suffered injuries this is hockey not a hospital. Salo and Tanev were good enough to hold on to despite being China Dolls, Juolevi has not shown that, If you can get a pick for him let him go. BUT that depends on seeing Rathbone play up but who by all indications is ready to take that LHD spot. Juolevi at his age should have made Edler dispensable, he's failed.  What confuses me is who or if any of Rafferty, Chatfield, Sautner can fill a gap for a couple of years. Really when you think of it we have Edler and Hughes Rathbone as LHD and Myers and Harmonic ( assuming we can resign him) as RHD There's spot for Schmidt or a less expansive youngster. Woo seems to be showing well but not ready, Rafferty seems not to be trusted by Green ( and is a UFA this summer) Chatfield has a lot to learn and Sautner seems like a forgotten man ( ditto Brisebois ) The team cannot afford a further expensive FA signing!! So it's Schmidt at $6 mill or Tryamkin at +/- $2 mill

Edited April 24, 2021 by Fred65

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

Hughes-Hamonic
Rathbone-Myers
Edler-Tryamkin
Bowie
 

I'd be ok (in concept) of moving Juolevi after the ED, if the return is appropriate. Otherwise, I'd be just fine running him and Rathbone as a tandem with roughly 40 (+ with injuries) games each next year.

 

Edler won't be here forever... I'd be wary of voluntarily cutting our young, left prospect depth.

 

And I still think we're far better off moving Myers in this scenario.

 

Edler, Schmidt

Hughes, Hamonic

Juolevi/Rathbone, Tryamkin

 

Juolevi/Rathbone, Bowey

 

Woo in the wings as injury call up and hopefully soon followed by our 1st rounder this coming draft to replace Hamonic in a couple years.

Edited April 24, 2021 by aGENT

[Provost]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

I'd be ok (in concept) of moving Juolevi after the ED, if the return is appropriate. Otherwise, I'd be just fine running him and Rathbone as a tandem with roughly 40 (+ with injuries) games each next year.

 

Edler won't be here forever... I'd be wary of voluntarily cutting our young, left prospect depth.

 

And I still think we're far better off moving Myers in this scenario.

 

Edler, Schmidt

Hughes, Hamonic

Juolevi/Rathbone, Tryamkin

 

Juolevi/Rathbone, Bowey

 

Woo in the wings as injury call up and hopefully soon followed by our 1st rounder this coming draft to replace Hamonic in a couple years.

I also considered the idea of platooning both Juolevi and Rathbone in that spot for the season and that idea has some merit.  They probably each get 50 games at least, assuming that Edler or Hughes will miss some games over the season and need injury replacements.  That should be enough for a balance between development time and not overloading them and setting them up to fail.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

I also considered the idea of platooning both Juolevi and Rathbone in that spot for the season and that idea has some merit.  They probably each get 50 games at least, assuming that Edler or Hughes will miss some games over the season and need injury replacements.  That should be enough for a balance between development time and not overloading them and setting them up to fail.

Just think it's too risky to be moving out our young D depth with Edler aging out any time now.

 

Do that and in a couple years, we're scrambling to find another Juolevi.

[appleboy]

People keep talking like Edler and Hamonic will be back next year.  Unless they are willing to sign for around a mil we can't afford them.

[Fred65]

21 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Just think it's too risky to be moving out our young D depth with Edler aging out any time now.

 

Do that and in a couple years, we're scrambling to find another Juolevi.

I think we have to think in terms of a top 4 and then a cheap 5 + 6 D'man So when  Edler goes and it leaves us with Hughes and Rathbone/Juolevi. On the RH side we have Myers ( expensive) Schmidt and Harmonic assuming he is resigned all 30 years old.. To me we need to move either Myers/Schmidt or don't resign Harmonic and bring in a youngster on the RHD side. We can't for Cap reason afford expensive 5+6 D'men trouble is you really want to get rid of either Myers or Schmidt for Cap reason

Edited April 24, 2021 by Fred65

[aGENT]

12 minutes ago, appleboy said:

People keep talking like Edler and Hamonic will be back next year.  Unless they are willing to sign for around a mil we can't afford them.

Nonsense.

[appleboy]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

No sense.

OK . A mil plus a few cents. 

 

We will see how creative they get with finding ways to clear cap space. ( maybe LE retires) I doubt Edler or Hamonic will be willing to sign for cheap next year. You love to act like the Canucks have no cap issues for next year . You have said it so many times that you now actually believe it. LOL 

Not sure you noticed this year but we had no money for Tyler and we are right at the max with Hamonic signed at a mil. Hamonic is having a solid year so no way he signs cheap again. Edler will want 4 mil at least.

Jim is stating that we will contend in two years because even he knows they have limited cap space. 

[aGENT]

23 minutes ago, appleboy said:

OK . A mil plus a few cents. 

 

We will see how creative they get with finding ways to clear cap space. ( maybe LE retires) I doubt Edler or Hamonic will be willing to sign for cheap next year. You love to act like the Canucks have no cap issues for next year . You have said it so many times that you now actually believe it. LOL 

Not sure you noticed this year but we had no money for Tyler and we are right at the max with Hamonic signed at a mil. Hamonic is having a solid year so no way he signs cheap again. Edler will want 4 mil at least.

Jim is stating that we will contend in two years because even he knows they have limited cap space. 

Just like last year, there's work to be done. Just like last year, no, I'm not worried. We'll find ways to keep the guys we want to keep, who want to be here.

 

Which, if you were following the discussion, would realize that if Hamonic and Edler are back, means we're likely moving one of Myers/Schmidt/Tryamkin out. We simply don't have roster space for all of them.

 

Between the ED, trades, LTIR etc, we have plenty of cap to bring both back if we/they want to.

 

But keep on fretting about the sky falling...

[Stierlitz]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:46 PM, WHL rocks said:

Todd Diamond, Tryamkin's agent on his return to NHL

 

 

"He wants to get things going, he wants to spend a good chunk of the summer before training camp in Vancouver and work with the Canucks staff to be ready to hit the ground running.”

 

https://thecanuckway.com/2021/04/20/canucks-nikita-tryamkins-agent-believes-hes-a-top-4-nhl-defenceman/

 

 

Well, If Tryamkin wants to work with the Canucks staff this summer, his contract should be signed no later than June. This takes at least one month for a Russian to get Canadian immigration visa which is supposed to be issued based on valid contract with a Canadian NHL club.

[Stierlitz]

On 4/21/2021 at 9:33 AM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Doesn't Russia have lower taxes than Canada?

The Russian income tax is 13% flat rate.

[appleboy]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Just like last year, there's work to be done. Just like last year, no, I'm not worried. We'll find ways to keep the guys we want to keep, who want to be here.

 

Which, if you were following the discussion, would realize that if Hamonic and Edler are back, means we're likely moving one of Myers/Schmidt/Tryamkin out. We simply don't have roster space for all of them.

 

Between the ED, trades, LTIR etc, we have plenty of cap to bring both back if we/they want to.

 

But keep on fretting about the sky falling...

I really didn't think that you of all people would be in on moving out one of Myers or Schmidt to keep Hamonic or Edler. Or both. I take it that neither will bring us anything in the line of future assets. They would be left exposed in the expansion draft. That would be a panic move forced because of poor cap management. Plus a lack of long term planning. 

 

Brilliant.

 

The time to move out one of those guys was at the trade deadline when you could have got a healthy return.   

[aGENT]

35 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I really didn't think that you of all people would be in on moving out one of Myers or Schmidt to keep Hamonic or Edler. Or both. I take it that neither will bring us anything in the line of future assets. They would be left exposed in the expansion draft. That would be a panic move forced because of poor cap management. Plus a lack of long term planning. 

 

Brilliant.

 

The time to move out one of those guys was at the trade deadline when you could have got a healthy return.   

No, I think moving Schmidt out is silly. Some seem to think it's a good idea though.

 

And both him and Myers are under contract... So no, the TDL wasn't the time to move them out, as their value would be lowered by the upcoming ED. The time to move them is actually after the ED, when their value will be higher.

 

I would (potentially) move Myers then if we knew Hamonic (and to a lesser extent, Edler) was coming back. If Hamonic isn't back, we keep Myers.