Rebuilding our Defense Long term (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

Year 1 (2021-2022)

 

1. Sign Dougie Hamilton 6 years @ $8,500,000 per

2. Sign Travis Hamonic 3 years @ $2,500,000 per

3. Sign Alex Edler 2 years @ $4,000,000 per 

4. Trade Quinn Hughes for Cozens and 2021-1st

5. Trade Myers for a 2022 2nd

6. Draft RHD Brandt Clarke

7. Draft LHD (Hughes,Lambos) or Forward ( Svechkov, McTavish, Raty, Lucius, Johnson) at #9 OA

8. Draft RHD Morrow, or Mailloux in 2nd round (41 OA)* May have to upgrade pick

9. Draft Goalie (Lennox) in 3rd round (73 OA)

 

Rathbone (1 Million) and Hamilton (8.5 Million)

Juolevi (1.5 Million) and Schmidt (6.0 Million)

Edler (4.0 Million) and Hamonic (2.5 Million)

Chatfield (1 Million)

 

Starting 7 = $24.5 Million

 

Defensive Prospects

 

Lambos       Clarke

Jurmo          Woo

Truscott       Morrow or Mailloux

Persson

Ututen

 

Year 2

 

1. Player/prospect review before the draft

 

2. Draft BPA 1st round (hopefully a forward)

3. Draft BPA 2nd round (hopefully a Goalie)

4. Draft BPA 2nd round ( hopefully a defenseman)

5. Draft BPA 3rd round (hopefully a Goalie)

 

Now, first off, the whole idea of moving Hughes and acquiring Hamilton is to up grade the #1 starting Dman. IMO, Hughes will never be a true #1, and will be more a PP specialist like Krog, who still is a great Dman, but not a true #1. Hamilton is a true #1.

 

Secondly, we focus on RHD in general in the 2021-2022 draft, this is to give them time to fully develop. I have no objection to drafting a center with our second 1st, in the 2021-2022 draft. It will give them time to mature, and with Cozens in place we have Horvat's replacement for the future. (IMO, Cozens will be a very good #2 Center)

 

Thirdly, as Benning has done a great job of drafting, our forward and defensive positions are becoming well supplied, and we must look to the future to fill in with a great goalie prospect or 2 or 3? In any case, just as in Defensemen, goalies are a long brew, and will need time to develop.

 

IMO, this completes our rebuild, and it will just be a matter of time to reap the remaining rewards. Will all these prospects make it? Probably not, but it will fill in holes that Benning has neglected to fill. IMO, these prospects develop just in time for Pettersson to lead the Canucks to a cup.

 

*Note. I am positive that many would not advocate moving Hughes, but replacing him with a veteran all-star, who will then be replaced by Brandt Clarke, is a smart in that it shows a plan, and a transition. It creates depth. IMO, Hughes has absolutely no acumen in playing defense.

 

This should be done at all positions. Which is why I have picked so many goalies, and focused on defensemen in the first rounds. My focus is 2 years from now, and not next year, in terms of competing. Here is my line up for next year.

 

2021-2022

 

Miller         Pettersson       Boeser                                                Forwards $38,000,000

Pearson       Horvat           Hoglander

Podkolzin    Cozens          McEwen

Roussel         Lind             Motte

Highmore    Graovac

 

Rathbone       Hamilton

Juolevi           Schmidt

Edler             Hamonic

Chatfield                                                                                         Defense   $24,500,000

 

Demko

Holtby                                                                                             Goalies      $9.500,000

 

                                                                                                Salary Cap of: $72,000,000

 

Eriksson                                                                                                            $4,800,000

Luongo                                                                                                              $3,000,000

 

                                                                                             Salary Cap plus: $79,800,000

 

Ferland and Beagle on LTIR

 

IMO, our defense becomes heavier, and far more defensive, all the while not giving up offense. Looking at it long term, the defense keeps its size and demeanor, all the while again being able to provide offense form the rear.

 

I would also not be against trading our 2023-2024 1st round pick for either an earlier 2021-2022 or a 2022-2023 1st, if a prospect came along we really wanted and we forecasted that we would be further along or within the same area of the draft at the time. IMO, we need to condense our group of players to some degree.

 

It should also be stated that players like Miller and Schmidt would be moved if promotion from within was available. But only if we could keep our competitive edge while doing so.

 

Benning does not seem to have a plan

We need a plan

This is a plan!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

Benning has a plan, we're 2 years away from being dangerous.

 

Benning's plan is:

 

Draft well, develop well, fill holes with free agents while youth develops in AHL.

[J.I.A.H.N]

23 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Benning has a plan, we're 2 years away from being dangerous.

 

Benning's plan is:

 

Draft well, develop well, fill holes with free agents while youth develops in AHL.

That was exactly his plan 2 years ago.....exactly!

[ken kaniff]

3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

That was exactly his plan 2 years ago.....exactly!

That was his plan 7 years ago too. Dim Jim can’t do jack.

[Odjick the Warrior]

No team is trading a 2nd rounder for the 
Chaos Giraffe, not happening in this reality or NHL 21

[morrissex95]

55 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Benning has a plan, we're 2 years away from being dangerous.

 

Benning's plan is:

 

Draft well, develop well, fill holes with free agents while youth develops in AHL.

Maybe if he stopped trading every 3rd or 4th round pick for depth we'd have more prospects

 

 

[Odjick the Warrior]

You don't have what Pettersson is re-signing for and your salary cap math is highly dubious with thinking you can just trade $5 million dollar players in a flat cap without taking cap back at par or close. 

[morrissex95]

1 hour ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:

You don't have what Pettersson is re-signing for and your salary cap math is highly dubious with thinking you can just trade $5 million dollar players in a flat cap without taking cap back at par or close. 

I think OP gave Hamilton a fair contract but I agree we won't be able to dump Myers. Why would we trade Hughes for Cozens? That makes no sense. Think about it business wise, why would a business trade one of their top assets that they invested millions of development dollars in before he(Quinn) even played here. Cozens could turn out to be another Virtanen for all we know. Just a terrible idea, QH is one of the strongest defenders we've ever had.

 

Also the Edler contract that OP gave out. In what world is Edler worth $4 million he's worth maybe $1 Million at this point. Look at the sweetheart deal Chara and Lundqvist gave the Capitals. Edler will be expected to do the same if he wants to stay. He'll finish his career here. 

[Junkyard Dog]

Next two drafts should help long-term.

 

I don't see us doing well next year either with the amount of youth we will be running with.

[morrissex95]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

Next two drafts should help long-term.

 

I don't see us doing well next year either with the amount of youth we will be running with.

Rebuilding in this league got a lot harder with more teams coming into the league and parity becoming more apparent. I was amazed with Nashville getting into the playoffs. We're going to have a tough couple of years ahead of us with the amount of players coming off the books and the lack of depth to compensate for it. Jimmy Vesey? Seriously? Marc Michaelis? We should have a plethora of young kids knocking on the door and we don't. 

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, morrissex95 said:

Rebuilding in this league got a lot harder with more teams coming into the league and parity becoming more apparent. I was amazed with Nashville getting into the playoffs. We're going to have a tough couple of years ahead of us with the amount of players coming off the books and the lack of depth to compensate for it. Jimmy Vesey? Seriously? Marc Michaelis? We should have a plethora of young kids knocking on the door and we don't. 

Circumstances with this season especially have probably played a part in team's performances.

 

For example the Canucks have a really bad record vs Canada last season and this season is no different. Leafs had an amazing record vs Canada and this year is no different. Preds could of have had a similar circumstance.

 

We've had Boeser then Petey, then Hughes and now Hoglander step into the league. Next year we are gonna have Podkozlin. We have the 2nd tier of youngsters(Rathbone/OJ/Lind/Gadjo) who are gonna need time to develop at the NHL level next year

 

We've pretty much got to grind it out, let these guys develop next year. We won't have cap space till 2022 anyway. Probably in for another top 10 pick in 2022.

[morrissex95]

2 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Circumstances with this season especially have probably played a part in team's performances.

 

For example the Canucks have a really bad record vs Canada last season and this season is no different. Leafs had an amazing record vs Canada and this year is no different. Preds could of have had a similar circumstance.

 

We've had Boeser then Petey, then Hughes and now Hoglander step into the league. Next year we are gonna have Podkozlin. We have the 2nd tier of youngsters(Rathbone/OJ/Lind/Gadjo) who are gonna need time to develop at the NHL level next year

 

We've pretty much got to grind it out, let these guys develop next year. We won't have cap space till 2022 anyway. Probably in for another top 10 pick in 2022.

I agree, but we need to continue to stockpile assets. We'll need some youngsters to pawn at the deadline three or four years from now. I've learned from our success from 2009-2013 that every team gets a short window and you need to load up and do what you can to bring home a championship before it's too late. If Gillis had a better head on his shoulders and Luongo could stop the freaking puck we would've won the cup in 2010. IMO, 2010 was a better shot for us than 2011 especially with Sundin in the lineup. 

[BigTramFan]

4 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Now, first off, the whole idea of moving Hughes and acquiring Hamilton is to up grade the #1 starting Dman. IMO, Hughes will never be a true #1, and will be more a PP specialist like Krog, who still is a great Dman, but not a true #1. Hamilton is a true #1.

 

Hi Jan. The whole crux of your idea is based on trading Hughes for a large haul of assets and signing Hamilton to be our #1D (note: we could get MUCH more for trading Hughes).

 

It is "a plan" but it is just not going to happen. The Canucks will make Hughes our franchise Dman, so better get used to that and think up ways to support Hughes and his deficiencies. 

 

I think the way to achieve that is to pair Hughes with a defensive-minded stud (Tanev was perfect but was a bit too old for the window and injury-prone). The names that spring to mind are guys like Seth Jones and Brett Pesce (that is not an exhaustive list). Both are 26 and could play that supporting D role for another 7-8 years. Pesce is signed long term with CAR, so we likely aren't getting him because we don't have the assets. Jones is more achievable as he is UFA in one year and he has been non-committal regarding resigning in Columbus.

 

That's my 2c worth anyway...

 

Oh yeah and Krog!! hehe

Edited May 17, 2021 by BigTramFan

[Bertuzzipunch]

The Hughes for cozens and buffalos 1st is kinda blowing my mind right now. 
 

the edler 2 years at 4 mill per is making my stomach curl tho.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Bertuzzipunch

[J.I.A.H.N]

Guys, I get the shine on Hughes

Offensively, the kid has it.............

But

His net gain, is actually a net loss

But, if we can get his +/- down to zero

then he becomes a valuable asset

Because he is a PP genius 

So, yes, if you can find that defensive specialist that can babysit Quinn

Sure go for it!

But to go to market and buy that, will cost Big...aka Seth Jones

To go to UFA will still cost you 6.5 to 7.5 to get a player of that status

So, you take some one of lesser...Hamonic? Well, that has not worked as Quinn is -24 in 54 games

which is a whopping - 36 over 82 games with Hamonic..............that is Fn terrible

So, yes it hurts to move Hughes,

but we get Cozens, a 1st (Clarke) and Hamilton for Hughes money

in the end it is a net gain and a 3 for 1 deal

Will it happen.,,,,,,hell no!

Benning does not have the balls to do that

But if we could pull that off, we would be a much better team for it...............

 

PS......................compare Hamilton's stats to Hughes, and tell me which player helps more when on the ice,

and that is without Cozens or the 1st

 

I want to play chess and everyone wants to play checkers

[Patel Bure]

Good ideas but I don’t think it’s realistic for 

 

1) The Canucks to trade Quinn Hughes 

2) Dougie Hamilton to leave a powerhouse in Carolina so that he could sign with a “potential future powerhouse” in Vancouver for what would essentially be the same term and money (while paying far less in taxes).  
 

My Quinn Hughes/Tkachuk idea by the way, was just created to see if that was fair value (judging by the reaction I got on here......it’s not!   -), but Benning would receive NUCLEAR heat in this market if he moved

Quinn and a fellow superstar didn’t come back in return.  
 

Also, while Hamilton is a terrific defenseman, I think it might be better for the Canucks to target a defenseman that is a little more specialized on the “defensive” side of things so that said player complements Hughes or Schmidt a lot better.   Like an Adam Larsson, Ryan Murphy, or David Savard.  Larsson might be the more realistic choice since he’s already in Western Canada.  And then re-signing Hamonic who apparently loves it here. 
 

Schmidt-Larsson

Hughes-Hamonic 

Juolevi/Rathbone-Myers 

 

Juolevi or Rathbone

 

ps - I’m still not thrilled with the idea of using Schmidt on the left side.  The guy was a Norris trophy candidate playing on the right side in a more offensive capacity.  I hope the Canucks can find a way to play him on that side again.  Ryan Murphy would have been a decent add but his inability to stay healthy is a concern for me.  
 

 

[Goal:thecup]

Thanks Jan, for always coming up with interesting stuff, and for supporting the team as you do.

 

There are lots of things in your post to think about and I would like to add:

 

Where does Rathbone fit into the Canucks' longer-term plans?

 

IMO, he is knocking on Quinn Hughes's door; can we carry 2 small super-skilled D?  And both on the left side?

 

Does Rathbone make it easier to swing a big Hughes trade?

[JM_]

damn Jan, you dream big 

 

I wonder if we really want to hit the reset button, maybe exposing Nate Schmidt to Seattle is the first step.... hear me out. We got him for very little cost, so losing him for creating cap space is actually worthwhile. Clearing 6 mil in cap space for a 3rd rounder is something you'd take any other time.

 

If Seattle takes Nate, and honestly they'd be dumb not to, with that and a Virtanen buy out you can go get Hamilton.

 

Add to that I think we could get Zadorov from CHI for a bargain.

 

Hughes-Myers

Juolevii-Hamilton

Rathbone-Zadorov

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Good ideas but I don’t think it’s realistic for 

 

1) The Canucks to trade Quinn Hughes 

2) Dougie Hamilton to leave a powerhouse in Carolina so that he could sign with a “potential future powerhouse” in Vancouver for what would essentially be the same term and money (while paying far less in taxes).  
 

My Quinn Hughes/Tkachuk idea by the way, was just created to see if that was fair value (judging by the reaction I got on here......it’s not!   -), but Benning would receive NUCLEAR heat in this market if he moved

Quinn and a fellow superstar didn’t come back in return.  
 

Also, while Hamilton is a terrific defenseman, I think it might be better for the Canucks to target a defenseman that is a little more specialized on the “defensive” side of things so that said player complements Hughes or Schmidt a lot better.   Like an Adam Larsson, Ryan Murphy, or David Savard.  Larsson might be the more realistic choice since he’s already in Western Canada.  And then re-signing Hamonic who apparently loves it here. 
 

Schmidt-Larsson

Hughes-Hamonic 

Juolevi/Rathbone-Myers 

 

Juolevi or Rathbone

 

ps - I’m still not thrilled with the idea of using Schmidt on the left side.  The guy was a Norris trophy candidate playing on the right side in a more offensive capacity.  I hope the Canucks can find a way to play him on that side again.  Ryan Murphy would have been a decent add but his inability to stay healthy is a concern for me.  
 

 

I just wonder why everyone loves to put Hamonic with Hughes?

 

Hughes is a _36 over 82 games playing with Hamonic

 

Like what is there not to understand about that? Maybe you can explain it to me! Please!

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 hours ago, Goal:thecup said:

Thanks Jan, for always coming up with interesting stuff, and for supporting the team as you do.

 

There are lots of things in your post to think about and I would like to add:

 

Where does Rathbone fit into the Canucks' longer-term plans?

 

IMO, he is knocking on Quinn Hughes's door; can we carry 2 small super-skilled D?  And both on the left side?

 

Does Rathbone make it easier to swing a big Hughes trade?

I think Rathbone may make it easier to move Hughes, but honestly, if that is your motivation for moving Hughes, then we need to see Rathbone a little more in Hughes minutes, and I do not think that is going to happen this year.

 

My opinion on moving Hughes is based on his small stature and having Hamilton to replace him now, and Clarke to replace in the future.........then and only then would I count on Rathbone to be able to replace "some" of Hughes skill.

 

My proposal is based on building a deep and sizable defense, to which moving Hughes and Replacing with Hamilton does, as well as Clarkes 6'1" 180 lb, 18 year old body. I see Clarke rounding out at about 205lbs, which isn't bad for a Offensive Dman.

 

On another note.............I am about building a kingdom that will last and I think people do not understand trades that build............

 

My take on this is the trade actually results in a Hughes for Cozens, 2021 1st, and Hamilton , (although Hamilton is signed as a UFA), who would not be signed if that money had to be used to sign Hughes.

 

My opinion on Cozens is he will be a great 1st/2nd line player in a couple of years at max, and again, he has size. The 1st, which will be very high could be used on various players....aka Power's, Beniers, or Clarke, all of who are top of their position in the draft and all who are considered at the very top of the board.

 

People need to understand I am a Hughes fan, and would never move him for anything less. So, in suggesting we move him, if we are to keep him, then we need to find a very big defensive defenseman to help him out. Because I do not think Hamonic can fill the role............I am open to hearing an argument why we should re-sign Hamonic, but I don't see him a fit for Hughes. Maybe for a 3rd liner, but not Hughes.