[Report] Jim Benning to return for next season

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

Is it the best approach? I see literally no one making that claim. 
 

Those moves insulated the kids by letting them go back to junior or to the AHL. Save for McCann and Virtanen as there wasn’t much choice with how bare the cupboards were at the start. Those “bums” made sure we wouldn’t have players jumping in before they should. 
 

Whether you agree with that approach or not is your prerogative but try expressing without telling people what they think sometime. 

I see a lot of people, you included, say literally anything Benning does is the absolute best approach he could have taken all the time.

 

The other day, I outlined an alternate plan that would have accomplished the same thing of bringing in vets, using up cap space, and insulating youth while accumulating picks and prospects along the way that only would have helped the team rebuild.

 

Guess what Benning fans did? Came up with a bunch of nonsensical excuses why his approach was better.

 

 

[tas]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I see a lot of people, you included, say literally anything Benning does is the absolute best approach he could have taken all the time.

 

The other day, I outlined an alternate plan that would have accomplished the same thing of bringing in vets, using up cap space, and insulating youth while accumulating picks and prospects along the way that only would have helped the team rebuild.

 

Guess what Benning fans did? Came up with a bunch of nonsensical excuses why his approach was better.

 

 

thinking you have enough of the pertinent facts to even be able to suggest an alternate plan is reason enough not to take anything you say seriously. 

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, tas said:

thinking you have enough of the pertinent facts to even be able to suggest an alternate plan is reason enough not to take anything you say seriously. 

You mean besides other teams using the approach I described and it working well for them?

 

What other pertinent facts do I need to have to make that suggestion?

 

Thinking that a GM only has one possible course of action available to them is reason enough to not take anything you say seriously.

Edited May 23, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[tas]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

You mean besides other teams using the approach I described and it working well for them?

 

What other pertinent facts do I need to have to make that suggestion?

personnel decisions are incredibly complex. 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, tas said:

personnel decisions are incredibly complex. 

They are but somehow many other teams still manage to make the right ones more often than not.

 

Imagine that.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

You mean besides other teams using the approach I described and it working well for them?

 

What other pertinent facts do I need to have to make that suggestion?

 

Thinking that a GM only has one possible course of action available to them is reason enough to not take anything you say seriously.

Didn’t JB just say they were looking at all ways to make us better?  I think he mentioned pretty much every way possible.  

[wallstreetamigo]

Personnel decision on a sports team are a lot easier if they are not upside down value wise based on what they bring vs what they are paid.

[tas]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

They are but somehow many other teams still manage to make the right ones more often than not.

 

Imagine that.

prove it. show me hit rates, "many other teams" vs benning.

 

but that wasn't my point anyway. 

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Its not only about big ticket signings though. Its the cumulative effect of a bunch of overpriced deals.

 

So how did signing all those bums actually stop the kids ftom losing? I mean, take a look at the record and explain that to me.

 

I really hope Benning doesnt sign a bunch more bums this offseason because I really dont know how people will justify it after saying he wont.

 

I am sure Benning supporters will find a way to suggest its the best approach ever if he does.

I still don't think you get it.   The team isn't at that stage anymore.   IF their is a player better capable available coming up then that's who gets the spot.   But i'm sure the dialogue might also be he no longer had a choice.   Maybe it's actually deliberate.   JB said as much last off-season, that it takes 3-5 years to develop some players and that the team is entering a stage now where they will no longer have to rely on UFAs to fill roster spots.    It is what it is.    If he re-signed Markstrom, Tanev and TT, let Demko and Hogs plus have the pool go and some future picks go to shoe horn them in then id be fully supporting a change.   Which i've already stated several times i'm open to anyways, just feel he's done enough for another year to see it through.    You can't be angry about everything he's done, just like i'm not happy about everything he's done - it's far from black and white. 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Didn’t JB just say they were looking at all ways to make us better?  I think he mentioned pretty much every way possible.  

He cant use the approach I suggested now though. He has wasted too much cap space for it to work effectively.

 

Benning will be signing more not top of the line free agents with money from buying out other bad non top of the line signings.

 

At leadt thats what he said on 650.

[tas]

4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Personnel decision on a sports team are a lot easier if they are not upside down value wise based on what they bring vs what they are paid.

vancouver doesn't get to have value signings right now because, believe it or not, good nhl players with options aren't beating down the door to come to a rebuilding team in a highly scrutinized canadian fishbowl where they get no peace or anonymity whatsoever and their required community commitments are huge and they get reimbursed for that by having huge tax rates and a ridiculous cost of living. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by tas

[Gurn]

14 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I see a lot of people, you included, say literally anything Benning does is the absolute best approach he could have taken all the time.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He cant use the approach I suggested now though. He has wasted too much cap space for it to work effectively.

 

Benning will be signing more not top of the line free agents with money from buying out other bad non top of the line signings.

 

At leadt thats what he said on 650.

How has he acquired players?  Draft.  Trade.  UFA.  Weaponize cap room.  He’s been building the team in ways you wanted all along, right?  

[canuck73_3]

21 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I see a lot of people, you included, say literally anything Benning does is the absolute best approach he could have taken all the time.

 

The other day, I outlined an alternate plan that would have accomplished the same thing of bringing in vets, using up cap space, and insulating youth while accumulating picks and prospects along the way that only would have helped the team rebuild.

 

Guess what Benning fans did? Came up with a bunch of nonsensical excuses why his approach was better.

 

 

Wrong again amigo. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by canuck73_3

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, Alflives said:

How has he acquired players?  Draft.  Trade.  UFA.  Weaponize cap room.  He’s been building the team in ways you wanted all along, right?  

He has drafted high but only because his retool approach has failed year after year and the team has sucked.

 

His trades on the whole have been garbage. He bleeds value in almost every trade. Miller was good, but did still cost him a 1st and a 3rd to a team that needed to move cap to sign Point. Same with Schmidt. Good value but cap relief trade.

 

My point is he should have used the same approach filling out his bottom 6 and adding assets in the process. I hate the term weaponizing cap space but the idea is correct. Instead of trading for Sutter, etc or signing bottom 6 guys, he should have used that approach.

 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

Wrong again amigo. 

Not really. People cannot accept that Benning had another option that would have put the team much further ahead without the major cap problems.

 

I understand they cant see it because if they do they have to at least consider he made mistakes.

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Not really. People cannot accept that Benning had another option that would have put the team much further ahead without the major cap problems.

 

I understand they cant see it because if they do they have to at least consider he made mistakes.

Some cannot stop putting words in others mouth. 

[IBatch]

15 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I see a lot of people, you included, say literally anything Benning does is the absolute best approach he could have taken all the time.

 

The other day, I outlined an alternate plan that would have accomplished the same thing of bringing in vets, using up cap space, and insulating youth while accumulating picks and prospects along the way that only would have helped the team rebuild.

 

Guess what Benning fans did? Came up with a bunch of nonsensical excuses why his approach was better.

 

 

Dude i don't think that is at all fair.   I've seen ONE poster say that everything JB does is the best approach and that is Appolo, obviously he's taken the high road ... and adding lightness and comedy for the forum to enjoy.   Did it with the Sedins too.   

 

Maybe spend a little more time and wonder if the replies you get are because your stance for lack of better words, is about as ludicrous.    And often comes across as hyprcritical.   JB avoided 80 million of UFA salaries last off-season - including your knight in shining armour TT.    What if he reverted to his normal career performance?   Markstrom vs Demko was by far the most important thing that came out of it, followed with Schmidt.   Absolute tanking has rarely worked since the cap came in.    We are all well aware of the contract bunging up.   LE, Bear and Luongo is a lot of money sitting on the sidelines, one a bad signing, another a sucky injury and one MG.    What id like to say is when we go with the kids next year and they don't do any better then AR or Sutter or Edler what will you say then?   Most of us give credit where it is due.   I never thought we had a chance with this core because it was simply unrealistic.    JB gave us a chance by drafting one despite the mess he took over, and did the right thing by not doing the easy thing by going with more of the same last off-season.   I'm willing to wait and see where things go as a result before passing absolute judgement on the overall.     

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He has drafted high but only because his retool approach has failed year after year and the team has sucked.

 

His trades on the whole have been garbage. He bleeds value in almost every trade. Miller was good, but did still cost him a 1st and a 3rd to a team that needed to move cap to sign Point. Same with Schmidt. Good value but cap relief trade.

 

My point is he should have used the same approach filling out his bottom 6 and adding assets in the process. I hate the term weaponizing cap space but the idea is correct. Instead of trading for Sutter, etc or signing bottom 6 guys, he should have used that approach.

 

 

So it’s less about method, and more about execution that is your issue?  I can accept that.  Benning has had misses along the way.  But he did build a very good young core group.  He’s building around that group too.  Myers, Miller and Schmidt are guys needed to support the young core.  Plus, he’s got several young draft picks coming up to fill support roles.  To me we look like a very good team going forward.  

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Dude i don't think that is at all fair.   I've seen ONE poster say that everything JB does is the best approach and that is Appolo, obviously he's taken the high road ... and adding lightness and comedy for the forum to enjoy.   Did it with the Sedins too.   

 

Maybe spend a little more time and wonder if the replies you get are because your stance for lack of better words, is about as ludicrous.    And often comes across as hyprcritical.   JB avoided 80 million of UFA salaries last off-season - including your knight in shining armour TT.    What if he reverted to his normal career performance?   Markstrom vs Demko was by far the most important thing that came out of it, followed with Schmidt.   Absolute tanking has rarely worked since the cap came in.    We are all well aware of the contract bunging up.   LE, Bear and Luongo is a lot of money sitting on the sidelines, one a bad signing, another a sucky injury and one MG.    What id like to say is when we go with the kids next year and they don't do any better then AR or Sutter or Edler what will you say then?   Most of us give credit where it is due.   I never thought we had a chance with this core because it was simply unrealistic.    JB gave us a chance by drafting one despite the mess he took over, and did the right thing by not doing the easy thing by going with more of the same last off-season.   I'm willing to wait and see where things go as a result before passing absolute judgement on the overall.     

I find it really hard on my phone to respond effectively to giant walls of text. Old eyes dont like small printing lol.

 

So i will add what i can.

 

First, if I cared about how people respond to my posts I wouldnt post here. 90% of the people on cdc are simply in one camp or the other and having an actual discussion with them is useless.

 

I have never been an advocate for tanking a season. Winning a bunch of meaningless games at the end of the year is counterproductive IF a coach rides his veteran players to do it like the Canucks do. If they play the kids in significant roles in those games and they win, that to me is the best outcome.

 

Benning was pretty clear that going with more young players next year is probably not within the aggressive trade and ufa approach he is saying is the plan.