knucklehead91 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Caution these trades may be disturbing to some viewers, viewer discretion is advised. Alright, this is the first proposal I've done, just wanted to toss out a some crazy idea's and see what people think and if there is fair value? Trades are between VAN - TBL, FLA, CBJ, BUF Just so you are aware... Im goin full Gillis, I aint leavin nothin in the cupboards. Assuming Ferland's career is over.... First trade between VAN and TBL TO VAN Cernak, Erik TO TBL Ferland, Micheal + 2021 5th round pick + 2022 2nd round pick TBL is well over the cap and are in desperate need of space. Seeing how they LLLLOVE to abuse the LTIR, perhaps we could move Ferlands LTIR to TBL in exchange for Cernak. LTIR in the flat cap world holds so much value and comes at a premium. Because teams were expecting the cap to rise last year and the news broke in July that the cap would remain flat, teams are now in a bind. They either gave out contracts or need to resign players, but they do not have the space to do so, prior to the verdict of the salary cap. Tampa needs cap space BIG TIME.. and the use of the LTIR would benefit them greatly, but its going to cost them. That is of course if in fact Ferland's career is over. Vancouver needs a RHD that is young and one that can grow with the core of this team. I doubt there are many teams that are going to want to help TBL out if they manage to win another cup. We could possibly toss them a little life raft in exchange for some help of our own. Moving Cernak's 2.95m out and Ferlands 3.5m of LTIR in gives TBL makes a difference of $6,450,000 for TBL and their cap situation that move alone makes them cap compliant. They are $5,566,666 over the cap as of today and gives them just under 1mil of room. The draft picks are to hopefully close the deal to give TBL a shot at drafting another NHL player. Next season TBL is projected to have $11,458,334 of cap space, thats not including BP's hefty raise that will be coming next season along with a few other RFAs. Ferland's LTIR will help stabilize their cap situation next year and help handle BP's salary increase for the first year until they can get their cap situation sorted. Cernak does require protection, so they will have someone else exposed and lose them for nothing, Moving Cernak out for draft picks and cap stability is not an entire loss for nothing. There is financial gain and potential prospects. TBL gets to keep Sergachev, Hedman and McDonagh, thats 3 of their top 4D. They just have to protect Kucherov, Stamkos, Cirelli, Point, Vasilevskiy and either Gourde, Killorn or Palat and they keep a large portion of their cup winning team together. TO VAN Reinhart, Sam [RFA Rights] - Re-signed 6Mx4 TO BUF Juolevi, Olli [RFA Rights] Virtanen, Jake 2021 2nd round pick (VAN) Virtanen needs a change of scenery and Juolevi needs to be given a chance. Perhaps in a new market, less distractions and perhaps more opportunity to provide offense, Virtanen will flourish. Juolevi should help tidy up the back end for BUF and provide a good zone exit passing ability. Two former top 10 first round picks and a high 2nd round pick should be fair value. TO VAN Ekman-Larsson, Oliver ($2,250,000 retained) TO ARZ Roussel, Antoine DiPietro, Michael Schmidt, Nate 2021 3rd round pick (VAN) 3/4 pairing of OEL and Cernak, I feel like they would work very well together. We need to move cap however to make this work. In exchange, we take a top 4D and in return we give them a top 4D. OEL's contract is a bit steep for me, we'd need them to retain a portion to make it worth pitching a deal. We dump some cap for 1 year to make the deal work, they have plenty of room to take on a bit of cap for 1 season. In return they get a draft pick and a pretty high end goaltending prospect to help with their future. OEL has been nominated for the Norris 5 times in his career, his stocks are down but he is still a very solid player and had the 2nd highest CORSI on D for ARZ. I feel like he would be an upgrade on Schmidt, he has a big body, moves the puck well and lays the body. If OEL manages to bounce back in a new environment, the great thing is he is locked up for awhile and at a good cap hit. TO VAN Jones, Seth TO CBJ Rathbone, Jack Lind, Kole [RFA RIGHTS] Eriksson, Loui 2021 1st round pick (VAN) 2022 1st round pick (VAN) Now for the final piece on the back end. SETH... MUTHAF***IN... JONES Rathbone has a high potential and CBJ isn't going to want to let a top dman go without a dman coming the other way, especially if the potential isn't there. Jones is leavin town wether they like it or not, they have lost bargaining power with it being publicly known that Jones wants out. Unfortunately we need to move cap once again to make this deal work. So Rathbone, Lind and our 9th OA and and next years 1st round pick, plus LE's cap dump for 1 season (bonuses paid) for Seth Jones. Re-sign Edler at 2 year 1.5m - Edler doesn't want to leave, but Edler isn't in a position to bargain, if he wants to stay and wants another shot at a cup, he needs to accept his fate as either a UFA or a cheap deal. Another short term deal with a very low cap. If he doesn't like it, he can move on down to Seattle as a UFA if he wants to remain close to the Vancouver area. Left Wing Centre Right Wing Miller, J.T. $5,250,000 LW, C UFA - 2 Pettersson, Elias $6,750,000 C RFA Boeser, Brock $5,875,000 RW RFA - 1 Höglander, Nils $891,667 LW, RW RFA - 2 Reinhart, Sam $6,000,000 C, RW RFA Podkolzin, Vasily $925,000 RW RFA - 3 Pearson, Tanner $3,250,000 LW NTC UFA - 3 Horvat, Bo $5,500,000 C UFA - 2 Lockwood, William $842,500 RW RFA - 1 Motte, Tyler $1,225,000 LW, RW UFA - 1 Beagle, Jay $3,000,000 C M-NTC UFA - 1 Highmore, Matthew $725,000 LW, RW RFA - 1 Left Defense Right Defense Goaltender Hughes, Quinn $6,750,000 LD RFA Jones, Seth $5,400,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 1 Demko, Thatcher $5,000,000 G UFA - 5 Ekman-Larsson, Oliver $6,000,000 LD NMC UFA - 6 Cernak, Erik $2,950,000 RD RFA - 2 Holtby, Braden $4,300,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1 Edler, Alexander $1,500,000 LD UFA Myers, Tyler $6,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 3 Final Cap $81,169,379 Draft picks - none for awhile Protected list Pettersson, Boeser, Miller, Horvat, Reinhart, Jones, Cernak, OEL, Demko Exposed Myers, Holtby, Pearson, Gadjovich, MacEwan, Bowey, Motte, Beagle - I doubt they take Myers, and they do need a starting goalie from 1/31 teams. IDK what other teams in the league will have a goalie with as many accomplishments as Holtby exposed. So I would think, for only 1 year, Holtby might be the best choice of the exposed players. If they take either one of Holtby, Pearson or Myers, we free cap space. If we lose Pearson, I'd be happy to replace him with Gadjovich or MacEwan and run with the kids. If we lose Myers, well we can start taking a look at Woo, Bowey, Rafferty, Chatfield, Sautner or Brisebois and give these guys either their first shot or a longer look than previous. That would be one hell of a D group and 3 lines that can score. Would any of this be possible, would anyone make these trades to form this team and hope to win a cup? Anyways I've spent too much time drinking and not sure how I'll feel about this in the morning. Looks and sounds good to me right now though 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Sooo... Tampa, Buffalo, Arizona don't do the deals (underpayment from us) If Benning gave away Rathbone and 2x 1sts for Seth Jones I'd have no explanation other than that he's actually been Columbus' GM this whole time, we just didn't notice. Rathbone is gonna play like a 5m/year d-man for 900k/year for 2 out of the next 3 years. That puts him in untouchable territory in my book. No way we trade away both 1sts, especially if we have a goal of competing 2 years from now. With this years 1st, Benning can draft a player that'll be on our Roster the following year (maybe even this year if he nabs McTavish or Eklund). So unless you're getting back an extremely cost controlled immediate difference maker, pretty sure our 1st round pick for this year is also untouchable. I don't think we need such a big overhaul of our D-corps. We have good pieces, we just need some size and defensive responsibility - both of those are readily available in the UFA market, we don't need to trade assets for them. - Oleksiak - Savard - Larsson and several others. Hughes-Oleksiak Schmidt-Hamonic Edler-Myers *Juolevi, Rathbone Edler reportedly wants to come back, and if he signs a cheap enough deal, we could nab a proper partner for Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) LTIR is not an advantage and doesn't create cap space. There's really no reason for Tampa to give up a top-4 D on a cost effective contract to make their cap situation even more complicated by adding Ferland. Only LTIR money can exceed the cap but those players can't play. The Canucks had Ferland on LTIR all season - it allowed them to spend up to 85M but Ferland's 3.5M cap hit still counted against the cap. Their regular roster was still under 81.5M as 85M less Ferland's 3.5M = 81.5M. Adding Ferland's 3.5M forces them to operate in LTIR and all the nuisance it brings. There's no more bonus cushion so it can limit who they can recall, the bonuses are automatically carried into next season and they can't bank cap space. Vancouver had an 1.7M bonus overage from the prior season because they were in LTIR. This season again they will have nearly 650K that will count against next season's cap as bonus overage because of LTIR. Some teams don't even manage to maximise their LTIR relief so end up losing a bit of cap space. St Louis lost 300K in cap space because they couldn't find a way to maximise the relief - ie they were operating with a regular roster of no more than 81.2M. Vancouver managed to lose only 10K for their regular roster. Edited July 1, 2021 by mll 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, mll said: LTIR is not an advantage and doesn't create cap space. There's really no reason for Tampa to give up a top-4 D on a cost effective contract to make their cap situation even more complicated by adding Ferland. Only LTIR money can exceed the cap but those players can't play. The Canucks had Ferland on LTIR all season - it allowed them to spend up to 85M but Ferland's 3.5M cap hit still counted against the cap. Their regular roster was still under 81.5M as 85M less Ferland's 3.5M = 81.5M. Adding Ferland's 3.5M forces them to operate in LTIR and all the nuisance it brings. There's no more bonus cushion so it can limit who they can recall, the bonuses are automatically carried into next season and they can't bank cap space. Vancouver had an 1.7M bonus overage from the prior season because they were in LTIR. This season again they will have nearly 650K that will count against next season's cap as bonus overage because of LTIR. Some teams don't even manage to maximise their LTIR relief so end up losing a bit of cap space. St Louis lost 300K in cap space because they couldn't find a way to maximise the relief - ie they were operating with a regular roster of no more than 81.2M. Vancouver managed to lose only 10K for their regular roster. So am I misunderstanding something? What I meant by creating cap space is that it would allow them to exceed it by 3.5mil. Giving them “cap space” like it did for TBL in the entire regular season with Kucherov out, Hedman and Stamkos for a period of time. Everyone thought TBL was going lose one of their big 3 RFAs and were vulnerable to offersheets. It looked like they werent going to be able to afford it. Brisebois acquired Gaborik and Nilssons LTIR last off season, re-signed, Cirelli, Cernak and Sergachev. After they were inked, Kucherov was shelfed for the season. I understand LTIR players cannot play, so if Ferlands career is over, he’d be a 3.5mil LTIR life raft for their cap situation. Paquette + Coburn + 2nd round pick for Nilsson and Gaborik The dollars going in and going out are as follows To OTT $3,350,000 To TBL $7,475,000 Difference of $4,125,000 Tampa who needed to sign RFAs needed cap space yet they took on an “additional” 4.125 mil. They then shelfed that on the LTIR and actually “cleared” 7.475 mil. So technically its clearing cap space. Its allowing for them to exceed the cap, its as if that 7.475 mil was never even on the books, its just a parallel scale. I really do not see anyone wanting to do Tampa another favour after they exceeded the cap by 20% going into the playoffs and Kucherov is leading the postseason in scoring and looks like he never missed a step. I think its going to be a big F U from the rest of the GMs. We could potentially be the team to see an opportunity and take advantage of a situation. TBL is over the cap by 5.7mil, if no one wants to help them, heres the price or you can get bent, no one is here to do you anymore favours without paying a fair price. You won 1 cup and are 2 games from your 2nd, you’ve won enough and taken advantage of 1) the LTIR and 2) being in a tax-free state. Correct me if Im wrong, but thats how I understand it and what Tampa did last year, being no different to what that trade proposes this year. If they do not get their sh*t sorted out and get well under the cap, they are going to have a really hard time when Point is due for a new contract next season. At least Ferlands LTIR has 2 years of use and the final year would help TBL mitigate some of the new numbers for Point by giving them 3.5mil of LTIR use. The nuisance of LTIR for TBL to pay is lookin like a 2nd cup. I’ll read up more on LTIR to understand it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, knucklehead91 said: So am I misunderstanding something? What I meant by creating cap space is that it would allow them to exceed it by 3.5mil. Giving them “cap space” like it did for TBL in the entire regular season with Kucherov out, Hedman and Stamkos for a period of time. Everyone thought TBL was going lose one of their big 3 RFAs and were vulnerable to offersheets. It looked like they werent going to be able to afford it. Brisebois acquired Gaborik and Nilssons LTIR last off season, re-signed, Cirelli, Cernak and Sergachev. After they were inked, Kucherov was shelfed for the season. I understand LTIR players cannot play, so if Ferlands career is over, he’d be a 3.5mil LTIR life raft for their cap situation. Paquette + Coburn + 2nd round pick for Nilsson and Gaborik The dollars going in and going out are as follows To OTT $3,350,000 To TBL $7,475,000 Difference of $4,125,000 Tampa who needed to sign RFAs needed cap space yet they took on an “additional” 4.125 mil. They then shelfed that on the LTIR and actually “cleared” 7.475 mil. So technically its clearing cap space. Its allowing for them to exceed the cap, its as if that 7.475 mil was never even on the books, its just a parallel scale. I really do not see anyone wanting to do Tampa another favour after they exceeded the cap by 20% going into the playoffs and Kucherov is leading the postseason in scoring and looks like he never missed a step. I think its going to be a big F U from the rest of the GMs. We could potentially be the team to see an opportunity and take advantage of a situation. TBL is over the cap by 5.7mil, if no one wants to help them, heres the price or you can get bent, no one is here to do you anymore favours without paying a fair price. You won 1 cup and are 2 games from your 2nd, you’ve won enough and taken advantage of 1) the LTIR and 2) being in a tax-free state. Correct me if Im wrong, but thats how I understand it and what Tampa did last year, being no different to what that trade proposes this year. If they do not get their sh*t sorted out and get well under the cap, they are going to have a really hard time when Point is due for a new contract next season. At least Ferlands LTIR has 2 years of use and the final year would help TBL mitigate some of the new numbers for Point by giving them 3.5mil of LTIR use. The nuisance of LTIR for TBL to pay is lookin like a 2nd cup. I’ll read up more on LTIR to understand it better There are a lot of absurdities written on LTIR including by media like Seravalli, Dayal. The best resource is CapFriendly. When a player is on LTIR it allows the team to exceed the salary cap up to that player's cap hit, but the cap hit of the LTIR player stays on the books. Ferland going on LTIR allowed Vancouver to spend as much as 85M but it's only his 3.5M that are above the 81.5M. It would be far easier for their cap situation to have Ferland entirely off their books than have to deal with his LTIR cap. When a team can't get close to the 81.5M with their regular roster before applying LTIR they are at risk of losing cap space. Florida would have lost 2M if Ekblad went on LTIR so they kept him on IR instead. Tampa only cleared the contracts of Paquette and Coburn. Taking an LTIR contract in return doesn't create cap space but forces them to operate in LTIR and all the inconvenience it brings. Tampa had to operate in LTIR because of Kucherov while Ottawa were able to avoid the nuisance by dumping their LTIR contracts. A couple of seasons ago, Tampa traded Callahan's LTIR contract with a 5th round pick for Mike Condon and a 6th round pick. Callahan had a career ending back condition and was going to be a 5.8M LTIR cap hit. Mike Condon had a 2.4M cap hit and went on to spend the full season in the AHL for a buried cap hit of 1.325M. IE Tampa preferred having Condon's 1.325M buried cap hit on their books than Callahan's 5.8M LTIR contract, that would have allowed them to exceed the cap by that amount. Brisebois here does a good job of explaining LTIR. He covers the inability to accrue cap space and bonus overages to explain that trade. Edited July 1, 2021 by mll 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, mll said: There are a lot of absurdities written on LTIR including by media like Seravalli, Dayal. The best resource is CapFriendly. When a player is on LTIR it allows the team to exceed the salary cap up to that player's cap hit, but the cap hit of the LTIR player stays on the books. Ferland going on LTIR allowed Vancouver to spend as much as 85M but it's only his 3.5M that are above the 81.5M. It would be far easier for their cap situation to have Ferland entirely off their books than have to deal with his LTIR cap. When a team can't get close to the 81.5M with their regular roster before applying LTIR they are at risk of losing cap space. Florida would have lost 2M if Ekblad went on LTIR so they kept him on IR instead. Tampa only cleared the contracts of Paquette and Coburn. Taking an LTIR contract in return doesn't create cap space but forces them to operate in LTIR and all the inconvenience it brings. Tampa had to operate in LTIR because of Kucherov while Ottawa were able to avoid the nuisance by dumping their LTIR contracts. A couple of seasons ago, Tampa traded Callahan's LTIR contract with a 5th round pick for Mike Condon and a 6th round pick. Callahan had a career ending back condition and was going to be a 5.8M LTIR cap hit. Mike Condon had a 2.4M cap hit and went on to spend the full season in the AHL for a buried cap hit of 1.325M. IE Tampa preferred having Condon's 1.325M buried cap hit on their books than Callahan's 5.8M LTIR contract, that would have allowed them to exceed the cap by that amount. Brisebois here does a good job of explaining LTIR. He covers the inability to accrue cap space and bonus overages to explain that trade. thanks mll you always do a great job of explaining how LTIR works. Edited July 1, 2021 by Jimmy McGill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 hours ago, mll said: There are a lot of absurdities written on LTIR including by media like Seravalli, Dayal. The best resource is CapFriendly. When a player is on LTIR it allows the team to exceed the salary cap up to that player's cap hit, but the cap hit of the LTIR player stays on the books. Ferland going on LTIR allowed Vancouver to spend as much as 85M but it's only his 3.5M that are above the 81.5M. It would be far easier for their cap situation to have Ferland entirely off their books than have to deal with his LTIR cap. When a team can't get close to the 81.5M with their regular roster before applying LTIR they are at risk of losing cap space. Florida would have lost 2M if Ekblad went on LTIR so they kept him on IR instead. Tampa only cleared the contracts of Paquette and Coburn. Taking an LTIR contract in return doesn't create cap space but forces them to operate in LTIR and all the inconvenience it brings. Tampa had to operate in LTIR because of Kucherov while Ottawa were able to avoid the nuisance by dumping their LTIR contracts. A couple of seasons ago, Tampa traded Callahan's LTIR contract with a 5th round pick for Mike Condon and a 6th round pick. Callahan had a career ending back condition and was going to be a 5.8M LTIR cap hit. Mike Condon had a 2.4M cap hit and went on to spend the full season in the AHL for a buried cap hit of 1.325M. IE Tampa preferred having Condon's 1.325M buried cap hit on their books than Callahan's 5.8M LTIR contract, that would have allowed them to exceed the cap by that amount. Brisebois here does a good job of explaining LTIR. He covers the inability to accrue cap space and bonus overages to explain that trade. 1) this is why I shouldnt drink and post crazy ideas on the forums 2) thank you for the explanation 3) my brain still aint functioning, I’ll try to understand it later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 I am not sure it works, but I love the line-up. At least for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 OP, are you the reason why my bottle is empty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 54 minutes ago, Alflives said: OP, are you the reason why my bottle is empty? Sorry Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 5 hours ago, mll said: There are a lot of absurdities written on LTIR including by media like Seravalli, Dayal. The best resource is CapFriendly. When a player is on LTIR it allows the team to exceed the salary cap up to that player's cap hit, but the cap hit of the LTIR player stays on the books. Ferland going on LTIR allowed Vancouver to spend as much as 85M but it's only his 3.5M that are above the 81.5M. It would be far easier for their cap situation to have Ferland entirely off their books than have to deal with his LTIR cap. When a team can't get close to the 81.5M with their regular roster before applying LTIR they are at risk of losing cap space. Florida would have lost 2M if Ekblad went on LTIR so they kept him on IR instead. Tampa only cleared the contracts of Paquette and Coburn. Taking an LTIR contract in return doesn't create cap space but forces them to operate in LTIR and all the inconvenience it brings. Tampa had to operate in LTIR because of Kucherov while Ottawa were able to avoid the nuisance by dumping their LTIR contracts. A couple of seasons ago, Tampa traded Callahan's LTIR contract with a 5th round pick for Mike Condon and a 6th round pick. Callahan had a career ending back condition and was going to be a 5.8M LTIR cap hit. Mike Condon had a 2.4M cap hit and went on to spend the full season in the AHL for a buried cap hit of 1.325M. IE Tampa preferred having Condon's 1.325M buried cap hit on their books than Callahan's 5.8M LTIR contract, that would have allowed them to exceed the cap by that amount. Brisebois here does a good job of explaining LTIR. He covers the inability to accrue cap space and bonus overages to explain that trade. Okay, so just run with me for a sec.... I understand that LTIR doesnt "free" cap space, it doenst just take you from 81.5mil to 75.5mil when you put LE on LTIR. It raises your cap and your allowance to exceed the cap. Like if we put LE on LTIR because he has a broken spirit, we would go from 81.5 to 87.5mil. Let me just use LE as a quick example of my understanding. We have a 81.5mil cap, we place LE on LTIR, that then allows the team to exceed the cap by 6mil. so their cap would be 87.5mil (81.5+6) correct? But we are able to go and add 6mil to their roster to "replace" the 6mil that is on LTIR, which would essentially be the same as "freeing" cap space. Or would it not? Because by exceeding the cap, you have been given a 6mil replacement for a guy who is never going to play again. Its as if you shed cap space, right? They added a medically retired contract, to exceed the cap and allow them to bring in 6mil to bring them up to the 87.5mil cap hit. 81.5 - 6 = 75.5 this is their cap when you subtract the LTIR that has to be re-added at the end. So they have 75.5mil in cap space + 6 the difference in cap space before adding LTIR is 6 6mil LTIR + 6 replacement space + 75.5 = 87.5. Does that make sense? Am I on the right track or am I still drunk? Tampa was tight on cap last season after winning a cup, they had to resign their 3 big RFA's Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak. Sergachev, Mikhail Tampa Bay Lightning Nov 25, 2020 Standard (RFA) 3 years $4,800,000 Cernak, Erik Tampa Bay Lightning Dec 22, 2020 Standard (RFA) 3 years $2,950,000 Cirelli, Anthony Tampa Bay Lightning Dec 24, 2020 Standard (RFA) 3 years $4,800,000 They added $12,550,000 in cap, which I believe had them over the cap at that point in time. THEN they go and "add" 2 players and move 2 players out plus a nice little 2nd round draft pick. Thanks for doin us a huuuuge favour Ottawa, you can have our scraps and a pick, we REALLY wanted Gaborik who hasnt played since 2017-18 and Anders Nilsson who was out with a concussion Dec 27, 2020 Ottawa Senators Acquire: Braydon Coburn · $1,700,000 Cédric Paquette · $1,650,000 2022 2nd round pick (TBL) Sum: $3,350,000 Change: -$4,125,000 Tampa Bay Lightning Acquire: Marián Gáborík · $4,875,000 Anders Nilsson · $2,600,000 Sum: $7,475,000 Change: +$4,125,000 Their last 3 transactions the shipped out $4,045,000 brought in $8,537,500 the exchange Difference of $4,487,500 Over the course of the season TBL moved out Volkov at 700k and took in Savard with a 1,062,500 which is a surplus of 362,500. Kucherov has a 9.5m cap hit Jan 12, 2021 Tampa Bay Lightning Nikita Kucherov Long-Term Injured Reserve The day before the season started they set their cap for the season by adding Kucherov to the LTIR Gaborik + Nilsson + Kucherov = $16,975,000 in LTIR which we all know TBL was 20% over the cap going into the off-season. They shipped out 2 real dollar contracts in Coburn and Paquette and took on 2 LTIR never playing again contracts and then added Kucherov to that LTIR total which gave them an absurd amount of a cap hit of nearly $100mil Now Gaborik and Nilsson are probably never playing again, just like Condon who played like 10 games in the minors and ended his career, they cleared cap that way by moving out LTIR taking in a possible career ending injured goalie who was going straight to the minors to save cap AND just get wiped off the books Yes its easier to operate within the cap as opposed to managing LTIR for a season. But they were in deep trouble with the 3 big RFAs all needing new ink this off season they were going to need to find space somehow. So LTIR allowed them to exceed the cap by $7,745,000 which when you add their raises, it probably works out to be the same. They were able to re-sign all 3 RFAs and remain LTIR cap compliant because they went from 75mil to nearly 100mil with the use of LTIR They played musical chairs with Johnson while this was all going on TEAM PLAYER TRANSACTION RIGHTS ACQUIRED Jan 15, 2021 Tampa Bay Lightning Tyler Johnson NHL from Taxi Squad Jan 12, 2021 Tampa Bay Lightning Tyler Johnson Taxi Squad Tampa Bay Lightning Tyler Johnson Cleared waivers Jan 11, 2021 Tampa Bay Lightning Tyler Johnson Placed on waivers Oct 10, 2020 Tampa Bay Lightning Tyler Johnson Cleared waivers Oct 9, 2020 Tampa Bay Lightning Tyler Johnson Placed on waivers They bounced him around allocating a portion of his cap to the minors leaving a $1,275,000 cap savings. It wasnt until after Kucherov was on LTIR that Johnson came back up and played in their 2nd game of the season and hasnt missed a single game. Jan 12th Kucherov whent on LTIR Jan 12th Johnson cleared waivers Jan 13th TBL's opening night Jan 15th Johnson inserted into the lineup To me it looks like TBL really needed LTIR to make everything work this season, no one would claim Johnson off waivers, they couldnt afford to re-sign all 3 RFAs and they needed to find a way to keep the team together and LTIR was the way they could do it. Which I am sure there is a huge use for LTIR in the flat cap now. Which is why TBL moved a few mil in cap out and took in a huge amount of LTIR after knowing the cap was going to stay flat. No one will want to do TBL favours and if anyone does, its going to cost TBL a lot to save themselves. They currently have 12FWDs 5D and 2G signed.... and they are almost 6mil over the cap. Plus they have Cal Foote and Ross Colton who are RFA's this year Coleman, Goodrow and Savard who are UFA's not major pieces, but still roster pieces. Its not entirely clear to me as to how LTIR was a nuisance and wasnt beneficial to TBL. From my perspective and Dougie Hamilton's perspective it looked like TBL abused the crap out of LTIR and benefitted greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHockey Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 15 hours ago, knucklehead91 said: Caution these trades may be disturbing to some viewers, viewer discretion is advised. Alright, this is the first proposal I've done, just wanted to toss out a some crazy idea's and see what people think and if there is fair value? Trades are between VAN - TBL, FLA, CBJ, BUF Just so you are aware... Im goin full Gillis, I aint leavin nothin in the cupboards. Assuming Ferland's career is over.... First trade between VAN and TBL TO VAN Cernak, Erik TO TBL Ferland, Micheal + 2021 5th round pick + 2022 2nd round pick TBL is well over the cap and are in desperate need of space. Seeing how they LLLLOVE to abuse the LTIR, perhaps we could move Ferlands LTIR to TBL in exchange for Cernak. LTIR in the flat cap world holds so much value and comes at a premium. Because teams were expecting the cap to rise last year and the news broke in July that the cap would remain flat, teams are now in a bind. They either gave out contracts or need to resign players, but they do not have the space to do so, prior to the verdict of the salary cap. Tampa needs cap space BIG TIME.. and the use of the LTIR would benefit them greatly, but its going to cost them. That is of course if in fact Ferland's career is over. Vancouver needs a RHD that is young and one that can grow with the core of this team. I doubt there are many teams that are going to want to help TBL out if they manage to win another cup. We could possibly toss them a little life raft in exchange for some help of our own. Moving Cernak's 2.95m out and Ferlands 3.5m of LTIR in gives TBL makes a difference of $6,450,000 for TBL and their cap situation that move alone makes them cap compliant. They are $5,566,666 over the cap as of today and gives them just under 1mil of room. The draft picks are to hopefully close the deal to give TBL a shot at drafting another NHL player. Next season TBL is projected to have $11,458,334 of cap space, thats not including BP's hefty raise that will be coming next season along with a few other RFAs. Ferland's LTIR will help stabilize their cap situation next year and help handle BP's salary increase for the first year until they can get their cap situation sorted. Cernak does require protection, so they will have someone else exposed and lose them for nothing, Moving Cernak out for draft picks and cap stability is not an entire loss for nothing. There is financial gain and potential prospects. TBL gets to keep Sergachev, Hedman and McDonagh, thats 3 of their top 4D. They just have to protect Kucherov, Stamkos, Cirelli, Point, Vasilevskiy and either Gourde, Killorn or Palat and they keep a large portion of their cup winning team together. TO VAN Reinhart, Sam [RFA Rights] - Re-signed 6Mx4 TO BUF Juolevi, Olli [RFA Rights] Virtanen, Jake 2021 2nd round pick (VAN) Virtanen needs a change of scenery and Juolevi needs to be given a chance. Perhaps in a new market, less distractions and perhaps more opportunity to provide offense, Virtanen will flourish. Juolevi should help tidy up the back end for BUF and provide a good zone exit passing ability. Two former top 10 first round picks and a high 2nd round pick should be fair value. TO VAN Ekman-Larsson, Oliver ($2,250,000 retained) TO ARZ Roussel, Antoine DiPietro, Michael Schmidt, Nate 2021 3rd round pick (VAN) 3/4 pairing of OEL and Cernak, I feel like they would work very well together. We need to move cap however to make this work. In exchange, we take a top 4D and in return we give them a top 4D. OEL's contract is a bit steep for me, we'd need them to retain a portion to make it worth pitching a deal. We dump some cap for 1 year to make the deal work, they have plenty of room to take on a bit of cap for 1 season. In return they get a draft pick and a pretty high end goaltending prospect to help with their future. OEL has been nominated for the Norris 5 times in his career, his stocks are down but he is still a very solid player and had the 2nd highest CORSI on D for ARZ. I feel like he would be an upgrade on Schmidt, he has a big body, moves the puck well and lays the body. If OEL manages to bounce back in a new environment, the great thing is he is locked up for awhile and at a good cap hit. TO VAN Jones, Seth TO CBJ Rathbone, Jack Lind, Kole [RFA RIGHTS] Eriksson, Loui 2021 1st round pick (VAN) 2022 1st round pick (VAN) Now for the final piece on the back end. SETH... MUTHAF***IN... JONES Rathbone has a high potential and CBJ isn't going to want to let a top dman go without a dman coming the other way, especially if the potential isn't there. Jones is leavin town wether they like it or not, they have lost bargaining power with it being publicly known that Jones wants out. Unfortunately we need to move cap once again to make this deal work. So Rathbone, Lind and our 9th OA and and next years 1st round pick, plus LE's cap dump for 1 season (bonuses paid) for Seth Jones. Re-sign Edler at 2 year 1.5m - Edler doesn't want to leave, but Edler isn't in a position to bargain, if he wants to stay and wants another shot at a cup, he needs to accept his fate as either a UFA or a cheap deal. Another short term deal with a very low cap. If he doesn't like it, he can move on down to Seattle as a UFA if he wants to remain close to the Vancouver area. Left Wing Centre Right Wing Miller, J.T. $5,250,000 LW, C UFA - 2 Pettersson, Elias $6,750,000 C RFA Boeser, Brock $5,875,000 RW RFA - 1 Höglander, Nils $891,667 LW, RW RFA - 2 Reinhart, Sam $6,000,000 C, RW RFA Podkolzin, Vasily $925,000 RW RFA - 3 Pearson, Tanner $3,250,000 LW NTC UFA - 3 Horvat, Bo $5,500,000 C UFA - 2 Lockwood, William $842,500 RW RFA - 1 Motte, Tyler $1,225,000 LW, RW UFA - 1 Beagle, Jay $3,000,000 C M-NTC UFA - 1 Highmore, Matthew $725,000 LW, RW RFA - 1 Left Defense Right Defense Goaltender Hughes, Quinn $6,750,000 LD RFA Jones, Seth $5,400,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 1 Demko, Thatcher $5,000,000 G UFA - 5 Ekman-Larsson, Oliver $6,000,000 LD NMC UFA - 6 Cernak, Erik $2,950,000 RD RFA - 2 Holtby, Braden $4,300,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1 Edler, Alexander $1,500,000 LD UFA Myers, Tyler $6,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 3 Final Cap $81,169,379 Draft picks - none for awhile Protected list Pettersson, Boeser, Miller, Horvat, Reinhart, Jones, Cernak, OEL, Demko Exposed Myers, Holtby, Pearson, Gadjovich, MacEwan, Bowey, Motte, Beagle - I doubt they take Myers, and they do need a starting goalie from 1/31 teams. IDK what other teams in the league will have a goalie with as many accomplishments as Holtby exposed. So I would think, for only 1 year, Holtby might be the best choice of the exposed players. If they take either one of Holtby, Pearson or Myers, we free cap space. If we lose Pearson, I'd be happy to replace him with Gadjovich or MacEwan and run with the kids. If we lose Myers, well we can start taking a look at Woo, Bowey, Rafferty, Chatfield, Sautner or Brisebois and give these guys either their first shot or a longer look than previous. That would be one hell of a D group and 3 lines that can score. Would any of this be possible, would anyone make these trades to form this team and hope to win a cup? Anyways I've spent too much time drinking and not sure how I'll feel about this in the morning. Looks and sounds good to me right now though Lol, that's some wishful thingking my dude. Tampa and Arizona laugh in Benning's face. Not sure about Jarmo, but that's a lot of picks for one year of Seth Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Is that even cap compliant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) Instead of using Eriksson just use Ferland. He never played this season. If the Canucks didn't put him on LTIR and kept him on IR - their cap would have stayed at 81.5M but he was using 3.5M of it although he couldn't play. So their regular roster (active players, cap penalties, buyout etc) would have been 78M at most as 78 + 3.5 = 81.5M. By putting him on LTIR it allowed them to exceed the cap by his cap hit and try and build a playing roster up to 81.5M. There's no extra cap vs a team that doesn't use LTIR. If there was no Ferland, the Canucks would simply build their roster up to 81.5M. Here with him injured there are added complications to be able to get relief for his 3.5M and build a playing roster up to 81.5M. A team can add as many LTIR contracts as they want - it's not going to make their regular (/playing) roster exceed 81.5M because only LTIR money can exceed the cap. ---- Tampa's situation on 24 December with their 3 RFAs signed Sergachev, Cernak and Cirelli. They then made that trade with Ottawa. As CapFriendly notes it only clears the cap space for Paquette and Coburn. Kucherov + Nilsson + Gaborik = 16.975M which is the LTIR relief they are looking for. All 3 players unavailable for the full season but still counting against the cap. They need to build their roster as close as possible to the 16.975M or they will lose cap space for their regular roster as they won't get the full LTIR relief. Tampa did even better by signing Boo Nieves to maximise the relief. Tampa's active roster never exceeded 81.5M. The 16.975M above the cap were for Kucherov, Nilsson and Gaborik who all 3 were not available all season. 43 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said: [...] Its not entirely clear to me as to how LTIR was a nuisance and wasnt beneficial to TBL. From my perspective and Dougie Hamilton's perspective it looked like TBL abused the crap out of LTIR and benefitted greatly. Tampa got lucky. Kucherov's injury was a 5 month recovery time but it was a shortened season of only 4 months. He was not going to be available all season. If it was a normal season they would have had to clear cap space to activate him off LTIR. They managed to make the playoffs without him. He was able to return earlier from his injury and it allowed them to add a 9.5M player outside of the 81.5M that teams had to operate with in the regular season. Edited July 1, 2021 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-P Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 15 hours ago, knucklehead91 said: Left Wing Centre Right Wing Miller, J.T. $5,250,000 LW, C UFA - 2 Pettersson, Elias $6,750,000 C RFA Boeser, Brock $5,875,000 RW RFA - 1 Höglander, Nils $891,667 LW, RW RFA - 2 Reinhart, Sam $6,000,000 C, RW RFA Podkolzin, Vasily $925,000 RW RFA - 3 Pearson, Tanner $3,250,000 LW NTC UFA - 3 Horvat, Bo $5,500,000 C UFA - 2 Lockwood, William $842,500 RW RFA - 1 Motte, Tyler $1,225,000 LW, RW UFA - 1 Beagle, Jay $3,000,000 C M-NTC UFA - 1 Highmore, Matthew $725,000 LW, RW RFA - 1 Left Defense Right Defense Goaltender Hughes, Quinn $6,750,000 LD RFA Jones, Seth $5,400,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 1 Demko, Thatcher $5,000,000 G UFA - 5 Ekman-Larsson, Oliver $6,000,000 LD NMC UFA - 6 Cernak, Erik $2,950,000 RD RFA - 2 Holtby, Braden $4,300,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1 Edler, Alexander $1,500,000 LD UFA Myers, Tyler $6,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 3 I think it's interesting and a bit disheartening that even after adding Reinhart to that lineup we're still one scoring forward away from being able to ice a decent offensive 3rd line, even though Bo would probably be the best 3C in the league. And that's when everybody is healthy... If Gadj or Lind would be able to provide physicality and some scoring in the top 9 that would make a huge difference going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said: Lol, that's some wishful thingking my dude. Tampa and Arizona laugh in Benning's face. Not sure about Jarmo, but that's a lot of picks for one year of Seth Jones. TBL can laugh all they want, TBL is in a financial jam and who is going to want to help them out after winning 2 cups? (assuming they win now) 5.6mil over the cap, only 19/23 players under contract, Brayden Point needs a new contract next season. Then in 2023-24 Cernak, Cirelli and Sergachev need their big deals. They predict the cap will remain flat for the next 3-4 years... Where are they going to keep pulling cap space from?? They need to shed a ton of cap space and get well under the cap in order to keep their team together. Even if Seattle takes a 5mil player, they are 600k over and still need to resign 4-5 guys. Good luck TBL, no one is taking your deadweight after winning 2 cups. LTIR if it can be used like they did with Nilsson and Gaborik, can be very effective. TBL was able to keep all 3 of their RFAs while they were up against the cap, strictly from moving out a little bit of cap and taking back LTIR. Like this is all be a fabricated proposal and all, but lets think about the reality of the lack of help from around the league TBL is going to get. They took advantage of the LTIR big time and they are on their way to a 2nd cup, no one is going to want to help them out one single bit. There is an opportunity to bend TBL over the barrel and take something good from them if they want to get under the cap and get their ducks in a row for the next few years. 2 years of Ferland on the LTIR allows them to be over the cap for 3.5mil for 2 years, they can use that LTIR to help mitigate Brayden Points next contract I'll admit the ARZ trade doesnt sound so fair after the beers have subsided. But I mean ARZ Gets a top 4 dman, maybe not the same calibre as OEL, but still a solid top 4. Their goaltending situation isnt great, DiPietro has a lot of potential and to get a bluechip goaltending prospect plus a high 3rd round pick which with the lack of knowledge about this draft around the league, that 3rd could very well be a 2nd round pick. Seth Jones i'd obviously expect him to be re-signed in this hypothetical-intoxicated proposal. I think its pretty fair value for a #1 RHD to get a top prospect dman in return, plus 2 1st's plus Kole Lind who could be a middle to bottom 6 player for them. LE needs to move to make the cap work. IDK I had fun doin this last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHockey Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said: TBL can laugh all they want, TBL is in a financial jam and who is going to want to help them out after winning 2 cups? (assuming they win now) 5.6mil over the cap, only 19/23 players under contract, Brayden Point needs a new contract next season. Then in 2023-24 Cernak, Cirelli and Sergachev need their big deals. They predict the cap will remain flat for the next 3-4 years... Where are they going to keep pulling cap space from?? They need to shed a ton of cap space and get well under the cap in order to keep their team together. Even if Seattle takes a 5mil player, they are 600k over and still need to resign 4-5 guys. Good luck TBL, no one is taking your deadweight after winning 2 cups. LTIR if it can be used like they did with Nilsson and Gaborik, can be very effective. TBL was able to keep all 3 of their RFAs while they were up against the cap, strictly from moving out a little bit of cap and taking back LTIR. Like this is all be a fabricated proposal and all, but lets think about the reality of the lack of help from around the league TBL is going to get. They took advantage of the LTIR big time and they are on their way to a 2nd cup, no one is going to want to help them out one single bit. There is an opportunity to bend TBL over the barrel and take something good from them if they want to get under the cap and get their ducks in a row for the next few years. 2 years of Ferland on the LTIR allows them to be over the cap for 3.5mil for 2 years, they can use that LTIR to help mitigate Brayden Points next contract I'll admit the ARZ trade doesnt sound so fair after the beers have subsided. But I mean ARZ Gets a top 4 dman, maybe not the same calibre as OEL, but still a solid top 4. Their goaltending situation isnt great, DiPietro has a lot of potential and to get a bluechip goaltending prospect plus a high 3rd round pick which with the lack of knowledge about this draft around the league, that 3rd could very well be a 2nd round pick. Seth Jones i'd obviously expect him to be re-signed in this hypothetical-intoxicated proposal. I think its pretty fair value for a #1 RHD to get a top prospect dman in return, plus 2 1st's plus Kole Lind who could be a middle to bottom 6 player for them. LE needs to move to make the cap work. IDK I had fun doin this last night But you're not thinking of it at all from Tampa's point of view. Solid players on good contracts are worth more than their weight in gold to them. We saw what they were willing to give up in assets for Barclay Goodrow and Blake Colman. They only have one more year of Cernak on his current darling of a contract, and moving him now does practically nothing to relieve their cap woes. You just couldn't be more far off on your interpretation of the situation. For the next year Cernak is worth more to them than he is to any other team in the league. And be realistic, nobody really cares about sticking it to Tampa Bay. Go ahead and try, some other team is going to be more than happy to work with them for both team's mutual benefit. Might be your division rival. Oh sorry, actually the Arizona trade I didn't mind so much, it was the Reinhart deal that was more ridiculous. He's still RFA next summer, and you're giving up literally nothing of significant value. And on Jones, if he's signed Columbus will do better than that, if not it's way too much risk. Edited July 1, 2021 by HighOnHockey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, mll said: Instead of using Eriksson just use Ferland. He never played this season. If the Canucks didn't put him on LTIR and kept him on IR - their cap would have stayed at 81.5M but he was using 3.5M of it although he couldn't play. So their regular roster (active players, cap penalties, buyout etc) would have been 78M at most as 78 + 3.5 = 81.5M. By putting him on LTIR it allowed them to exceed the cap by his cap hit and try and build a playing roster up to 81.5M. There's no extra cap vs a team that doesn't use LTIR. If there was no Ferland, the Canucks would simply build their roster up to 81.5M. Here with him injured there are added complications to be able to get relief for his 3.5M and build a playing roster up to 81.5M. A team can add as many LTIR contracts as they want - it's not going to make their regular (/playing) roster exceed 81.5M because only LTIR money can exceed the cap. ---- Tampa's situation on 24 December with their 3 RFAs signed Sergachev, Cernak and Cirelli. They then made that trade with Ottawa. As CapFriendly notes it only clears the cap space for Paquette and Coburn. Ferlands LTIR+picks for Cernak = cap space. They are not taking on any additional cap space so it does free space for them, just not enough. They are well over the cap and still have a few players to sign. The ED should get them under the cap with 1 of their 5 mil contracts being exposed, you'd think. I dont see why any teams would want to do them any favours to help their cap situation, if anyone is to do them any favours its going to cost Tampa big time, no one is taking a cap dump for them without something substantial in return, thats if a team will even take a cap dump from them. Why would anyone take the crap they dont want so they can try and go for a 3rd cup. They dont have a 1st or 2nd this year or a 2nd or 3rd next year, even then TBLs 1st next year is likely to be in the bottom of the 1st round so its not even a great draft pick. I definitely had the wrong understanding of LTIR and how it works with the cap, but if TBL is in cap trouble and they cant afford to take on ANY cap in exchange for a player, ideally they would need an LTIR move to get bodies/cap out. Even if Ferland offered $1 or $10000000000 bazillion of LTIR, it doesnt matter, right? Because as you explained only the LTIR can exceed the cap, everything else must remain within the 81.5mil salary cap..... Am I getting that right? And the LTIR cap just gets tacked on top, correct? It looks like they spent 98mil but their actual roster is 81.5mil.....however because Kucherov is actually playing its more like a 91mil salary cap in the post-season as opposed to the 98mil from the additional LTIR of Gaborik and Nilsson who arent even part of the cup winning equation on ice. If I am understanding this right, LTIR for TBL would come at a premium, they are over the cap, need to sign players, need to exchange real cap for fictional cap or draft picks, won a cup and are on the way to their 2nd cup in back to back years, plus all the years of success prior being a top team in the league the last 3-5 years. Brisebois is going to have to suck it up at some point and get less for what he's giving away in order to keep the team intact and continue to try and prolong their period of contending. They can continue to add to their roster and extend the window through the draft, so if they move a valuable player out and lose another contract to the ED, they aren't completely dismantled, they free some cap and get some picks to hopefully draft a stud and insert that guy into the lineup on an ELC to extend the window. Lets be real, no one is taking a 30+ player on a 5mil+ deal for any amount of term for TBL after they win a 2nd cup. I just dont see it happening, maybe I'm crazy, but something in Tampa has to give and its going to have to be something good. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 I wonder if the 28 or so other teams' fan bases are planning on acquiring Cernak somehow lol VAN isn't getting Cernak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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