[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[AnthonyG]

29 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

As good as Garland was as a sweetener, Benning should have seen the stats, and at best OEL was up and down the past few years. Now this is the hard part is that due to his play, or the lousy team he's on. In the end he went as he usually does, for the short term answer, not the long term one. Moving Loui for a declining defenceman with a long term.

But that was part of Benning's problem. He was trying to fill in holes in the boat, and not understanding the whole superstructure was about to cave in.

Look at the effect of OELs departure on Chychrun the year after he left. Chychrun struggled immensely. 
Lets be fair here, OEL was on a garbage ARZ team that has always been garbage and probably will continue that trend for the next 8-10 years.

 

 

Our goaltending has made our D look plenty bad this season. Its not all on our D. Not only that our forwards have been horrendous in our zone with coverage. There have been plenty of times where our D have had their man and the forwards have been standing there watching as there is an open guy within reach and they do nothing.

 

 

OEL takes on the top line players each and every night and there are going to be mistakes, but he is no way in over his head as much as you would all like to think. Maybe if our goalies could make a save here and there, it wouldnt be so bad.

 

Just think of this. If our goalies were JUST average and stopped the pucks they should stop and the ones they couldnt went in. That would eliminate FIFTY F***ING GOALS AGAINST IN 55 GAMES. 
 

Spencer Martin -28.9GSAA

Collin Delia -10.3GSAA

Thatcher Demko -10.9GSAA

 

Our goalies have been absolute sieves. Thats almost 1 bad goal a game. If they had 0GSAA where they werent anything special, but not a liability, our team would be in a much better position to win every game. Lmao now imagine if we had goalies that were just *slightly* above average…. WE’D BE A GOD DAMN PLAYOFF TEAM and imagine if our PK was league average??!???!! WHERE YOUR GOALIE IS SUPPOSED TO BE YOUR BEST PKER WE’D BE PLANNING A GOD DAMN PARADE. 
 

We have no issue scoring. Its stopping the god damn puck and killing a f***ing penalty that is killing us. That and some dzone coverage issue which is on EVERYBODY. Because when a forward doesnt cover his man and the puck goes in, everyone looks in 2 spots at the D because its in the “Dzone” and the goalie. But forwards are just as critical and need to do their part

 

 

p.s. not yelling at you. Just so frustrated with what our bigger issues have been all season which is goaltending. You are only as good as your goalie and the stats indicate that.

[Ghostsof1915]

3 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Look at the effect of OELs departure on Chychrun the year after he left. Chychrun struggled immensely. 
Lets be fair here, OEL was on a garbage ARZ team that has always been garbage and probably will continue that trend for the next 8-10 years.

 

 

Our goaltending has made our D look plenty bad this season. Its not all on our D. Not only that our forwards have been horrendous in our zone with coverage. There have been plenty of times where our D have had their man and the forwards have been standing there watching as there is an open guy within reach and they do nothing.

 

 

OEL takes on the top line players each and every night and there are going to be mistakes, but he is no way in over his head as much as you would all like to think. Maybe if our goalies could make a save here and there, it wouldnt be so bad.

 

Just think of this. If our goalies were JUST average and stopped the pucks they should stop and the ones they couldnt went in. That would eliminate FIFTY F***ING GOALS AGAINST IN 55 GAMES. 
 

Spencer Martin -28.9GSAA

Collin Delia -10.3GSAA

Thatcher Demko -10.9GSAA

 

Our goalies have been absolute sieves. Thats almost 1 bad goal a game. If they had 0GSAA where they werent anything special, but not a liability, our team would be in a much better position to win every game. Lmao now imagine if we had goalies that were just *slightly* above average…. WE’D BE A GOD DAMN PLAYOFF TEAM and imagine if our PK was league average??!???!! WHERE YOUR GOALIE IS SUPPOSED TO BE YOUR BEST PKER WE’D BE PLANNING A GOD DAMN PARADE. 
 

We have no issue scoring. Its stopping the god damn puck and killing a f***ing penalty that is killing us. That and some dzone coverage issue which is on EVERYBODY. Because when a forward doesnt cover his man and the puck goes in, everyone looks in 2 spots at the D because its in the “Dzone” and the goalie. But forwards are just as critical and need to do their part

 

 

p.s. not yelling at you. Just so frustrated with what our bigger issues have been all season which is goaltending. You are only as good as your goalie and the stats indicate that.

I understand your frustration. However, Spencer Martin goes down to Abby. Gets only 2 goals against, is named second star and stopped 30 of 32 shots.

I'm thinking it's not the Goalies. The team isn't defending. They are letting players just skate in and leaving the goalie's out to dry. The forwards and the defence. They don't want to forecheck. Petey is one of the few forwards that has an overall balanced game. Hell he gives me grey hairs when he goes to block shots. Our defence is pretty much crap.

[MeanSeanBean]

53 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Riddle me this. Who is our best PKer?

Pettersson may be the only person on this team that isn't below average on the PK.

[AnthonyG]

5 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Pettersson may be the only person on this team that isn't below average on the PK.

Thats the worst answer to hear. BECAUSE…. why isnt our goalies our best PKer?? They are supposed to be the best PKer. Our goalies should be getting the first mention, but they dont, because they arent and that is a major issue.

[AnthonyG]

15 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I understand your frustration. However, Spencer Martin goes down to Abby. Gets only 2 goals against, is named second star and stopped 30 of 32 shots.

I'm thinking it's not the Goalies. The team isn't defending. They are letting players just skate in and leaving the goalie's out to dry. The forwards and the defence. They don't want to forecheck. Petey is one of the few forwards that has an overall balanced game. Hell he gives me grey hairs when he goes to block shots. Our defence is pretty much crap.

The minus 50 combined GSAA directly proves our goalies are sh*t all season long. That is 50 goals that every other goalie around the league is stopping, except ours. Those are saveable shots. Spencer Martin is also now playing much weaker competition in the A so he SHOULD be able to get some wins and make some saves. 
 

a positive GSAA like +50 would indicate good goaltending and sh*t defence it you’re still losing all these games the same score

Edited February 16, 2023 by AnthonyG

[MeanSeanBean]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

Thats the worst answer to hear. BECAUSE…. why isnt our goalies our best PKer?? They are supposed to be the best PKer. Our goalies should be getting the first mention, but they dont, because they arent and that is a major issue.

Because one of the few advantages this team has, in Demko, has been hurt the entire season. It's asinine to expect your backup goalie to be your best PKer. It's the rest of the teams job to step up in a season like this and play somewhat commited defense.

 

I think it's absurd to be blaming the goaltending this year. A couple quadA/backups have played like quadA/backups. Shocking.

[Wolfgang Durst]

1 hour ago, dougieL said:

Well Benning had a reputation as a good AMATEUR scout, which is very different from a pro scout. But that is beside the point. The point, again, is that the Sedin's made a terrible recommendation. It's not like they didn't know he struggled in Arizona (hence Daniel saying OEL took full responsibility for his play in Arizona). Did they recommend him just because he was their friend, or did they truly believe he would magically turn his form around at age 29? Either way, they messed up. I say this while acknowledging that Benning holds the ultimate responsibility.

 

The fact remains, though, that EVERY general manager relies on those around him. That is not debatable. And Benning got some really bad advice from the Sedin's. That's all I'm saying.

The ultimate decision still rests with the GM regardless of the advice he had received from the Sedins. He has the authority to make decisions and should therefore also be held accountable. Benning could have told the Sedin's that such a move is not the right move because of the cap implications + OEL's age + draft picks that were given away + the fact that Eriksson and Beagle and Roussel were on expiring contracts. I really think that we have discussed this move in all depth and every facet has been discussed at length. Time to move on.

[coryberg]

5 hours ago, dougieL said:

 

Sorry to dig this up, but I just found it funny now that, even if it's just temporary, Arizona is ahead of us in the standings 

 

Hopefully it's not temporary. 

[AnthonyG]

23 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Because one of the few advantages this team has, in Demko, has been hurt the entire season. It's asinine to expect your backup goalie to be your best PKer. It's the rest of the teams job to step up in a season like this and play somewhat commited defense.

 

I think it's absurd to be blaming the goaltending this year. A couple quadA/backups have played like quadA/backups. Shocking.

3-10-2

[MeanSeanBean]

16 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

3-10-2

Lol I assume that's Martin's last 15 games? What, were not even going to go with his full season record?

 

The team is more poorly constructed than an American Volkswagen and our defense is as terrible as the 2012 Total Recall remake. But you keep blaming a backup goalie all you need if that help gets you through the season. We all need to find ways to cope.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Shayster007

[coryberg]

6 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Lol I assumed that's Martin's last 15 games? What, were not even going to go with his full season record?

 

The team is more poorly constructed than an American Volkswagen and our defense is as terrible as the 2012 Total Recall remake. But you go on and blame a backup goalie all you need if that help gets you through the season.

Demko's record before injury 

[MeanSeanBean]

9 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Demko's record before injury 

Ah, I see. Damn he was rough to start this season. Made a ton of sense he got shut down with an injury, must have never been in playing shape this year.

 

Stats pretty on par with ever goalie this year though. The team is the only constant. This team has been so permissive defensively it's wild. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Shayster007

[Ted Lasso]

Come into Trades, Rumours & Signings hoping for developing Canucks trades, and finding this thread bumped to the top 

 

[Master Mind]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Lmao now imagine if we had goalies that were just *slightly* above average…. WE’D BE A GOD DAMN PLAYOFF TEAM and imagine if our PK was league average??!???!! WHERE YOUR GOALIE IS SUPPOSED TO BE YOUR BEST PKER WE’D BE PLANNING A GOD DAMN PARADE. 

Not even close.

[Down by the River]

On 2/14/2023 at 2:12 PM, grandmaster said:

Second worst trade Canuck history?

It's the worst trade in Canucks history. Not because of the discrepancy between talent sent versus talent coming back (e.g., Neely versus Pederson), but because of how Benning saddled this team with an enormously bloated contract in the process. This trade sent this team back like four years. It was easy to see coming. 

 

 

On 7/23/2021 at 2:27 PM, Down by the River said:

IMO, yes. Because this team isn't going to compete for a cup for another 4-5 years, so have a cost-controlled pick to round out the bottom 6 fwds/3rd pair defence is exactly what teams need. 

 

Does this trade make the Canucks better? Absolutely. Does it make them good enough to compete for a cup? Definitely not. So, you lose a strong player by trading your 9th OA, a depth player in your 2023 2nd rd pick, and you will have a bloated OEL contract when you're ready to start legitimately competing. 

 

All Benning had to do was wait one more year to be rid of a lot of the cap troubles he created for this team. Instead, he jumped the gun. He'll get out ahead for a few moments before the rest of the field catches up and inevitably passes him by. 

 

 

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, Shayster007 said:

Ah, I see. Damn he was rough to start this season. Made a ton of sense he got shut down with an injury, must have never been in playing shape this year.

 

Stats pretty on par with ever goalie this year though. The team is the only constant. This team has been so permissive defensively it's wild. 

-10.9GSAA in 15GP that is almost 1 bad goal against per game. From your STARTING goalie. Martin has a -28.9GSAA and Delia has a -10.3GSAA

That stat is the GOALIES fault for goals against. When all 3 goalies have a -10+GSAA and you’re constantly losing games, but your players are scoring plenty, the goalie is your achilles heel.

 

IF our goalies boasted a positive 5+GSAA and we were still losing games 6-4, 5-3, etc. That would indicate poor defence in our own zone because that would show our goalies are coming up with saves that most goalies around the league arent making but not making every huge save, which should never be expected. But you should be able to expect your goalies to make the saves that every other goalie around the league is making. So when all 3 of your goalies this season have a 4.00GAA and are minus X GSAA, the goalies are not doing themselves or our players any favours. They are hurting the team.

 

Just ask yourself if all our goalies combined had a 0GSAA meaning they dont go out of their way to make huge saves, but complete the simple task of making the saves they SHOULD make…. Just where would we be if you took 50 goals against out of our games this season? Thats only asking for the bare minimum.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

3-10-2

33-22-7. If you can’t get into the playoffs when your #1 goalie is standing on his head and winning games all by himself then it’s time to fix the defensive structure of the team and get some new defencemen. 
 

Our goalies have been crap this year, but if we have to rely on Demko to be a Vezina trophy candidate just to be a bubble playoff team then that’s not really a recipe for long term success. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[MeanSeanBean]

28 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

-10.9GSAA in 15GP that is almost 1 bad goal against per game. From your STARTING goalie. Martin has a -28.9GSAA and Delia has a -10.3GSAA

That stat is the GOALIES fault for goals against. When all 3 goalies have a -10+GSAA and you’re constantly losing games, but your players are scoring plenty, the goalie is your achilles heel.

 

IF our goalies boasted a positive 5+GSAA and we were still losing games 6-4, 5-3, etc. That would indicate poor defence in our own zone because that would show our goalies are coming up with saves that most goalies around the league arent making but not making every huge save, which should never be expected. But you should be able to expect your goalies to make the saves that every other goalie around the league is making. So when all 3 of your goalies this season have a 4.00GAA and are minus X GSAA, the goalies are not doing themselves or our players any favours. They are hurting the team.

 

Just ask yourself if all our goalies combined had a 0GSAA meaning they dont go out of their way to make huge saves, but complete the simple task of making the saves they SHOULD make…. Just where would we be if you took 50 goals against out of our games this season? Thats only asking for the bare minimum.

 

Too bad our team defense is so terrible. You can blame goaltending all you want.

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, Master Mind said:

Not even close.

first off I was half kidding. No we wouldnt be winning a cup. BUT

50 bad goals taken out of our results and a league average PK (78.83%), league avg sv% .901 (ours is .870)we’d without a doubt be in the playoff conversation. 

our goals against are 4.05

our goals for are 3.31

subtract 50 bad goals from 55 games that reduces our gaa by .91 bringing our gaa to 3.14GAA

3.31>3.14GAA = outscoring opponents 

 

Thats just simply with league average goaltending at the bare minimum.

 

Now factor in a league avg PK, in which ours is HISTORICALLY BAD 2 seasons in a row. You look back at what one of the biggest impacts was on last years success, it was our PK which was around 65% up until the January where it jumped to 80% pretty much the rest of the season. 
 

Our PK is 65.63% vs 78.83% for the rest of the league. Do you realize how much 13.2% difference would be?

160x.7883= 126

160-126=34 goals against instead of 55 goals against on the PK. Thats 21 goals against our team is fighting due to bad goaltending and a bad system. Your goalie has to be your best PKer… our goalies are not and our system doesnt seem to help either. Not only that but player personnel is an issue on the PK as well. This is why guys like Beagle and Sutter are important to have on your team, because they play a very key role. We shouldnt be having our star players do it, but behind them, we do not really have the appropriate personnel for killing penalties.

 

or hey lets just see how much of a difference it would be if our goalies had a .901sv%

223x.901 = 201. Thats 22 goals shaved off if we had bare minimum goaltending.

 

Between the PK and goaltending only being league avg at best, thats 55 goals that would be taken out of our results. 1 full goal a game. 
 

[AnthonyG]

29 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

33-22-7. If you can’t get into the playoffs when your #1 goalie is standing on his head and winning games all by himself then it’s time to fix the defensive structure of the team and get some new defencemen. 
 

Our goalies have been crap this year, but if we have to rely on Demko to be a Vezina trophy candidate just to be a bubble playoff team then that’s not really a recipe for long term success. 

I’m not even asking for vezina caliber goaltending. Im merely asking for the league avg and the results would be waaaay different. And with slightly above avg goaltending it gets even better. 
 

We have no issue scoring, but we cant outscore poor goaltending on a nightly basis. But if we had a league avg goaltending in every aspect, we’d be a lot higher in the standings. Look at LA.

 

with league min goaltending the standings are a different picture.