2022 NHL Entry Draft

[Gawdzukes]

7 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

The Avs have Makar (5’11” - 187), Girard (5’10” - 170), Toews ( 6’1” 191), and Byram (6’1” 190).

 

Not exactly a big D core but they can all move the puck really well. And they balance it out with guys like Johnson, Manson and Macdermid.

 

Theres definitely room for multiple smaller puck movers but you’ve gotta have that balance which we have with guys like Schenn and Myers, but obviously we need more true stay at home guys to improve that balance.

Good points. I personally like players that defend by being smart with skating, positioning and stickwork. The game is much easier to play when you have the puck all the time. Like you said we need some stay at home guys. Benning tried to do this but he just failed to bring in the right stay at home guys. I'm starting to get on the Colin Miller train. His shot and toughness would really compliment QH well, but he will get lots of interest.

[Sp3nny]

1 hour ago, NucknAsia said:

Fair points. I wouldn't agree Hughes is a 'couple of tiers' below Makar. I put him at 1/2 a tier below simply because of size. Makar has a great partner on D and an incredible team he's playing with. Other than a better shot, and having a size advantage I don't see him as that much better. And Hughes, honestly, see's the ice better / distributes the puck better (probably because he had to learn to do so because of his size and lack of shot).

 

But, put Hughes on Colorado and he's in the 80 pt range no doubt. Colorado was the 4th highest goals for in the league (almost 3rd, one behind StL). We were 17th

 

Col 308 goals vs Van 246...that's a big difference...

 

Based on his stats 68 pts out of a total of 246 goals that means Quinn was in on 26% of our goals.

A reminder he missed 6 games so its probably closer to 30%

 

Now apply that 26% to the 308 goals Colorado scored, which is actually unfair, as if he was playing with that level of talent he's probably well above 26% but lets leave it there.

 

26% x 308 = 80pts.

Makar had 86 pts. 

Makar's 86 pts are 28% of Col total goals 

 

The numbers alone show Quinn is not 2 tiers below, but actually quite close.

 

Makar only had a 2% differential on a MUCH better and MUCH more offensive team.

And Josi was part of 36% of Nashvilles goals, so he's clearly 6 tiers better than them both.

 

Numbers can be twisted to fit many narratives, but they also never tell the full story. Hughes is great, and I think even underestimated by some, but Makar is clearly better. The control Makar has over a game is remarkable from the backend, and his shot and speed are elite. Hughes is a great skater, but he doesn't push the play like Makar does from an attacking perspective.

 

It's not to put Hughes down, it's just the reality.

[NucknAsia]

13 minutes ago, Sp3nny said:

And Josi was part of 36% of Nashvilles goals, so he's clearly 6 tiers better than them both.

 

Numbers can be twisted to fit many narratives, but they also never tell the full story. Hughes is great, and I think even underestimated by some, but Makar is clearly better. The control Makar has over a game is remarkable from the backend, and his shot and speed are elite. Hughes is a great skater, but he doesn't push the play like Makar does from an attacking perspective.

 

It's not to put Hughes down, it's just the reality.

And I never said Makar wasn't better

 

Try reading what I said before you comment

[NucknAsia]

29 minutes ago, stawns said:

Sorry, I think you're pushing sh!t uphill here.  There hasn't been a dman like Makar in a long, long time

And where did I say there was?

Where did I say Makar wasn't better.

 

My response to you was very clear and easy to understand, it seems you are unable to understand it.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by NucknAsia

[hammertime]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

The Avs have Makar (5’11” - 187), Girard (5’10” - 170), Toews ( 6’1” 191), and Byram (6’1” 190).

 

Not exactly a big D core but they can all move the puck really well. And they balance it out with guys like Johnson, Manson and Macdermid.

 

Theres definitely room for multiple smaller puck movers but you’ve gotta have that balance which we have with guys like Schenn and Myers, but obviously we need more true stay at home guys to improve that balance.

Lian Bichsel is the guy we need sure there will be other good players available but Bichsel is the guy we need period. 

 

After we take Bichsel we need to get a 2nd and draft  Reid Schaefer kid's a meat grinder who can play top 9 

 

 

[Sp3nny]

48 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

And I never said Makar wasn't better

 

Try reading what I said before you comment

Lol. Pretty sure I read it just fine. Sorry you don't like your exact line of reasoning being used against you. You make an entire argument using just points to say Hughes is 'quite close' to Makar.

 

Since you decided to essentially make your original post statsistics based, lets use them to truly compare Makar and Hughes beyond just points.

 

- Makar had 9 more goals THIS YEAR, than Hughes has in his career

- Makar is above a PPG for his career, including playoffs (1.01 vs .805)

- Makar career +77 vs Hughes -24

- Hughes scores a higher % of points on the PP (not a huge difference. Hughes at 46.7%, Makar at 41.7%)

- Makar 2.6 PTS/60 vs Hughes 2.1 PTS/60 (27% difference. Is it rly 'quite close'?)

- Makar has FOUR times as many hits

- Makar 7.3 SHOTS/60 vs Hughes 4.3 SHOTS/60 (65% difference, not 'quite close')

 

There is more I could go into (higher corsi, higher Fenwick etc) but there is no need.

 

You conveniently mention Hughes missing games in your argument, and yet you didn't mention Makar missed the same amount. Oh, and on that point, Mackinnon missed 17 games, Rantanen missed 7, Landeskog missed 31, Toews missed 16, Kadri missed 11. Makar did more with arguably less. Miller outscored every player on the Avs, albeit in more games.

 

Is Makar on a better team? Yes, nobody will argue that. But perhaps the Avs are great because they have an absolute weapon in Makar making a massive difference from the back end. Like I said, he pushes the play offensively in a much better than Hughes.

 

Did you see him foot race McDavid last night while conveniently stripping him of the puck, and then immediately turning it up ice? That type of thing is next too impossible, and yet it's what Makar does night in and night out.

 

Once again, this isn't to put Hughes down. But Makar is AT LEAST a tier above Hughes, if not more. I think there is argument that Makar is a top 5 PLAYER in the league. I would have a hard time making an argument that Hughes is a top 5 DEFENSEMEN in the league.

 

But hey, that's just my opinion

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

Sorry, I think you're pushing sh!t uphill here.  There hasn't been a dman like Makar in a long, long time

Makar is on a different level, he’s the Orr or Coffey of this generation, just in a league of his own and it’s special to watch. I absolutely love Hughes but there’s no debating he’s equal to Makar. Makar is in a top tier by himself of young Dmen and then you gotta put Adam Fox as the next best young Dman and Hughes falls into a group behind Fox

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

Lian Bichsel is the guy we need sure there will be other good players available but Bichsel is the guy we need period. 

 

After we take Bichsel we need to get a 2nd and draft  Reid Schaefer kid's a meat grinder who can play top 9 

 

 

Bichsel is almost exactly what we need, the only way he would fit what we need any better is if he was RH. His wingspan is absurd and his defensive game is strong and there’s untapped potential offensively. I’d be over the moon with him but would not be surprised if he continues to jump up draft boards and surprises some on draft day. I hope he’s available at 15

[R3aL]

23 hours ago, stawns said:

They wouldn't be looking for picks, imo, as they won't be "rebuilding".  My deal started with Hughes for Severson, Holtz and the 2oa.  Three players who can step right into the lineup in October.

Huge fan of Holtz he would be amazing with EP40.

 

Trading Hughes would be so difficult but for a package like this, it is enticing. A top RHD in Severson, a top tier winger about to step in NHL and a 2OA which would be a top line forward in slaf or Cooley. 
 

if the miller trade brought back a quality D like say a Bowen Byram and we did a package like that I would understand the vision and accept losing Hughes.

 

but damn hard to even imagine him getting traded even for a haul like that.

[Bruce Boudreau]

3 hours ago, hammertime said:

Lian Bichsel is the guy we need sure there will be other good players available but Bichsel is the guy we need period. 

 

After we take Bichsel we need to get a 2nd and draft  Reid Schaefer kid's a meat grinder who can play top 9 

 

 

@Warhippy Has been on Maveric Lameroux long lanky right shot d who absolutely killed the NHL combine tests. He was top 10 in everything basically!

 

He was a projected late first to early second before the combine but the lack of quality d with size and mobility and the fact he is a right hand shot should secure him as a first round lock now projected in the 15-32 range along with Bichsel.

 

I would like the Canucks to take a chance on him at 15 unless they think they can still land him with a trade down.

 

The Canucks most glaring need is a future top 4 RHD to partner Hughes and play in the top 4. 

 

Maveric Lameroux could be the perfect fit as the Tyler Myers replacement in 2-3 years.

[NucknAsia]

4 hours ago, Sp3nny said:

Lol. Pretty sure I read it just fine. Sorry you don't like your exact line of reasoning being used against you. You make an entire argument using just points to say Hughes is 'quite close' to Makar.

 

Since you decided to essentially make your original post statsistics based, lets use them to truly compare Makar and Hughes beyond just points.

 

- Makar had 9 more goals THIS YEAR, than Hughes has in his career

- Makar is above a PPG for his career, including playoffs (1.01 vs .805)

- Makar career +77 vs Hughes -24

- Hughes scores a higher % of points on the PP (not a huge difference. Hughes at 46.7%, Makar at 41.7%)

- Makar 2.6 PTS/60 vs Hughes 2.1 PTS/60 (27% difference. Is it rly 'quite close'?)

- Makar has FOUR times as many hits

- Makar 7.3 SHOTS/60 vs Hughes 4.3 SHOTS/60 (65% difference, not 'quite close')

 

There is more I could go into (higher corsi, higher Fenwick etc) but there is no need.

 

You conveniently mention Hughes missing games in your argument, and yet you didn't mention Makar missed the same amount. Oh, and on that point, Mackinnon missed 17 games, Rantanen missed 7, Landeskog missed 31, Toews missed 16, Kadri missed 11. Makar did more with arguably less. Miller outscored every player on the Avs, albeit in more games.

 

Is Makar on a better team? Yes, nobody will argue that. But perhaps the Avs are great because they have an absolute weapon in Makar making a massive difference from the back end. Like I said, he pushes the play offensively in a much better than Hughes.

 

Did you see him foot race McDavid last night while conveniently stripping him of the puck, and then immediately turning it up ice? That type of thing is next too impossible, and yet it's what Makar does night in and night out.

 

Once again, this isn't to put Hughes down. But Makar is AT LEAST a tier above Hughes, if not more. I think there is argument that Makar is a top 5 PLAYER in the league. I would have a hard time making an argument that Hughes is a top 5 DEFENSEMEN in the league.

 

But hey, that's just my opinion

You continue to try and argue Makar is better, when that was never at odds. I did not say he wasn't.

 

I also never said Makar isn't a top 5 defenseman

 

Again you are arguing points I did not make - which suggests the bolded part is incorrect. I am not interested in arguing with you, nor re-explaining my point ad nauseum.

 

My points were made and I'll leave it there.

Edited June 5, 2022 by NucknAsia

[hammertime]

35 minutes ago, Chip Kelly said:

@Warhippy Has been on Maveric Lameroux long lanky right shot d who absolutely killed the NHL combine tests. He was top 10 in everything basically!

 

He was a projected late first to early second before the combine but the lack of quality d with size and mobility and the fact he is a right hand shot should secure him as a first round lock now projected in the 15-32 range along with Bichsel.

 

I would like the Canucks to take a chance on him at 15 unless they think they can still land him with a trade down.

 

The Canucks most glaring need is a future top 4 RHD to partner Hughes and play in the top 4. 

 

Maveric Lameroux could be the perfect fit as the Tyler Myers replacement in 2-3 years.

The thing is and don't get me wrong Lamoureux is a great late 1st early 2nd but he's more of a right shot Logan Stanley for sure an NHL player but not displaying much upside at this point. 

 

I have focused my research on the best C's and RHD's in this draft. And Bichsel keeps moving up my draft board. It also doesn't hurt that hes played RHD all year for Leksands SHL club. Regardless of which way he shoots it's not his shot were after though he can crank it. He's just so incredibly hard to play against. The combination of his size, skating, physicality, IQ, doesn't come around every draft. He has a rare toolset. Were talking Hague floor, Seabrook ceiling. He'll be somewhere in between and at 15 I'll take that. 

[Nucker 67]

Kind of hoping VAN trades down. I know it would be exciting to trade up and get one of the Top 5 players, but nothing is guaranteed and they would have to give up a lot to move up. Thinking if they moved down there are several good players, such as Delbelbelluz or Howard and they could still pick up a RD. Seeing as they have no prospects, adding mroe is better. These could also be quality players.

[hammertime]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Kind of hoping VAN trades down. I know it would be exciting to trade up and get one of the Top 5 players, but nothing is guaranteed and they would have to give up a lot to move up. Thinking if they moved down there are several good players, such as Delbelbelluz or Howard and they could still pick up a RD. Seeing as they have no prospects, adding mroe is better. These could also be quality players.

Depends who's there at 15. 

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

I've wondered a lot about Bischel at 15. I think he would make a very suitable pick. Lamoureux wouldn't be a terrible pick at 15 either. If Nic Hague went in the early 2nd round (where Lamoureux has been projected to go), picking him at 15 is not at all an insane proposition. 

[hammertime]

2 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

I've wondered a lot about Bischel at 15. I think he would make a very suitable pick. Lamoureux wouldn't be a terrible pick at 15 either. If Nic Hague went in the early 2nd round (where Lamoureux has been projected to go), picking him at 15 is not at all an insane proposition. 

But Kole Lind....... *Throws shoe at tv! I was so mad.

 

Smart food my A$$

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

6 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Smart food my A$$

No, I don't want some....

[Sp3nny]

7 hours ago, NucknAsia said:

Fair points. I wouldn't agree Hughes is a 'couple of tiers' below Makar. I put him at 1/2 a tier below simply because of size. Makar has a great partner on D and an incredible team he's playing with. Other than a better shot, and having a size advantage I don't see him as that much better. And Hughes, honestly, see's the ice better / distributes the puck better (probably because he had to learn to do so because of his size and lack of shot).

 

But, put Hughes on Colorado and he's in the 80 pt range no doubt. Colorado was the 4th highest goals for in the league (almost 3rd, one behind StL). We were 17th

 

Col 308 goals vs Van 246...that's a big difference...

 

Based on his stats 68 pts out of a total of 246 goals that means Quinn was in on 26% of our goals.

A reminder he missed 6 games so its probably closer to 30%

 

Now apply that 26% to the 308 goals Colorado scored, which is actually unfair, as if he was playing with that level of talent he's probably well above 26% but lets leave it there.

 

26% x 308 = 80pts.

Makar had 86 pts. 

Makar's 86 pts are 28% of Col total goals 

 

The numbers alone show Quinn is not 2 tiers below, but actually quite close.

 

Makar only had a 2% differential on a MUCH better and MUCH more offensive team.

 

39 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

You continue to try and argue Makar is better, when that was never at odds. I did not say he wasn't.

 

I also never said Makar isn't a top 5 defenseman

 

Again you are arguing points I did not make - which suggests the bolded part is incorrect. I am not interested in arguing with you, nor re-explaining my point ad nauseum.

 

My points were made and I'll leave it there.

No, your argument was the points bolded above, backed up with stats. I used further stat analysis to show that isn't really the case, and pointed out how that was possible with the Josi comparison.

 

Makar is in a tier of his own. No other defensemen is having the same impact on his teams game right now. And that isn't because Makar is 1" taller and 7 lbs heavier than Hughes, its because he is a superior player.

 

I said Makar is a top 5 SKATER in the league, not just defensemen. Hughes is not part of that conversation. Funny you are insinuating "I'm not reading" when you are the one not able to follow the conversation/points I'm bringing up.

 

This all has nothing to do with the draft, so I'll leave it there. Hughes is good, Makar is great. We agree on that atleast.

[NucknAsia]

Glad to have found the block function. It seems some like to continue to put words in people's mouths, then debate the words they put in people's mouths lol...anyways.. next point back to the draft...

 

Combine results here, interesting from an pure athletic standpoint. I haven't analyzed them but Lamoureux seems to stand out as a consistent name amongst the group so his athleticism is clearly top tier.

Given the winner of the vertical jump, I don't think any of these guys would have a future in basketball! 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/2022-nhl-combine-results-top-10-prospects-at-each-drill/

Edited June 6, 2022 by NucknAsia

[canuckpuckluck1]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

The thing is and don't get me wrong Lamoureux is a great late 1st early 2nd but he's more of a right shot Logan Stanley for sure an NHL player but not displaying much upside at this point. 

 

I have focused my research on the best C's and RHD's in this draft. And Bichsel keeps moving up my draft board. It also doesn't hurt that hes played RHD all year for Leksands SHL club. Regardless of which way he shoots it's not his shot were after though he can crank it. He's just so incredibly hard to play against. The combination of his size, skating, physicality, IQ, doesn't come around every draft. He has a rare toolset. Were talking Hague floor, Seabrook ceiling. He'll be somewhere in between and at 15 I'll take that. 

If you were to offer a potential top 4 D man with size at 15 the Canucks would be mad to pass that up.

Honestly I for one would be happy to see all D men drafted for the next few drafts, basically just build  a stable full of d men. 

We look at LA with envy, as they have a number of potentially good defensemen or look at what has poured through Nashville's system over the last decade.

I would like to see the Canucks focus on defence, they have the net covered in Demko and Martin with Silovs and MDP coming along. There is some young puck movers in Hughes and Rathbone and now if they could fill out the rest of the D with size, strength , IQ and mobility.