Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[Xol]

3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Except Bure was screwed by the Canucks while Benning is a fair guy

Sure, but he also refused to play while Burke looked for a fair trade. It worked out OK getting Jovo, but it wasn't what Bure was worth at the time

[Xol]

1 minute ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

I wonder how much the Sedins have their hands in this. 

Their hands are full eating meatballs and building furniture 

[CanucksJay]

Just now, FaninMex said:

QH for Dahlin.

 

Bet Dahlin signs a nice team friendly contract to be out of Buffalo

It was a no brainer predraft to take Dahlin over QH

Dahlin's skillset it insane.  I have no doubt he would be amazing in a Canucks uniform and I would honestly not miss Hughes.

We have offense by committee

OEL will rebound (book it)

We got Rathbone coming up

Myers chips in.

Juolevi will chip in.

Add Dahlin to this group and man do we have a solid D corps.

 

Points are great but defense needs to defend.

 

[Smashian Kassian]

6 minutes ago, Xol said:

 

I mean if they don't want to be here... we've all seen how handing out huge contracts is working out for the Oilers and Toronto.

 

I don't see them not signing for real though, but its frustrating and really not a good look for who are supposed to be the faces of the franchise for the next decade. We've waited a long time to see a talented young team put together... but in typical Canucks fashion our 2 brightest stars are in Michigan 5 days before preseason, playing contract chicken with the team. Reminds me of Bure in a sad way.

 

I wouldn't go that far yet, Boeser wasn't there for day 1 of camp either. Brady Tkachuk is still unsigned, Nylander waited until December, exc. It seems to be a new age thing. It sucks but they could sign in a few days and everything could be just fine.

 

By all accounts there hasn't been animosity between the two sides, unlike in Toronto w/ the Marner & Nylander negotiations. Its as much confounding as frustrating. 

[CanucksJay]

"What the hell did you do to me???" - Quinn Hughes to JP Barry as we trade him to Buffalo for Dahlin.

Petterson subsequently instasigns an 8.5 x 8 deal.

[wai_lai416]

26 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I guess JB would need to figure out what the arbitration criteria is.

I think I read something here that for every 12 min Hughes is on the ice, there is a goal against.

 

Does the arbitrator look at Barrie as his comparable or does he look at Cale Makar?

If Cale, does he deduct for deficiencies in defensive play, and term?  Because if we were to compare the 2 players, we would say Hughes shoudl get less than Makar.

Would that bring the number to the 8x8? 

If Hughes wanted less term though, would it then become more like 7m x 4? 

 

Canucks woudl then argue that Avs would be getting value on Makar's final 4 seasons when he is worth much more than 9m while Arbitrator has Hughes valued at 8x8 so at 4 years, he is worth more like a 6m avg player... because the hope would then be that from years 5-8, Hghes would be worth a 9-10m player...

Canucks would also argue that there is no guranteee that Hughes will round out his defensive game while Makar already plays a good complete game so the 8x8 is actually valued too high because of the unknown in whether Hughes can develop his 2 way game.

 

Maybe a 4 year deal (6,6,7,7) is the fair deal 6.5m avg and Canucks still have his RFA rights...

 

I think comparing Hughes to Makar and highlighting the deficiencies could actually benefit the Canucks.

 

I remember when Russ Courntall was going through arbitration and I distinctively remember the quote, "it sucks" because the team highlights all the crappy parts of your game

 

 

oh pretty much once u go to arbitration you trash both side and unlikely the player will re-sign as soon as he hits ufa i think at this point we are dreaming if we think QH will sign a 4x6.5 otherwise it'll be long done

[mll]

1 hour ago, Chris12345 said:

I do too. It will get done. Question is whether or not is Nov 1st or Oct 1st.

 

How much money is left $16m?

 

Quinn gets 7x8....Petey gets 8x3. His is weighted heavily for more bank in year 3.

They have about 16.5M with a roster of 23 and full relief for Ferland.  They could even push to 18M if they drop the roster to 21.  That's without accounting for Motte who might be unavailable to start the season.

 

They won't be able to maximise their LTIR relief for Ferland if they aren't signed by the start of the season though.

 

They've kept so much cap space that there's no mathematical way for them to build a roster close enough to 81.5M and would be going into the season without any LTIR relief and Ferland on IR.  The over approach is not available in season so they would need to find a way to fit everyone under 81.5M including Ferland and only then apply LTIR. Might be challenging because of roster limits (min 20) and the waiver risk.  They could also do like Toronto during the Marner negotiations and trade for an LTIR contract to ear-mark the space kept.

 

[FaninMex]

7 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

It was a no brainer predraft to take Dahlin over QH

Dahlin's skillset it insane.  I have no doubt he would be amazing in a Canucks uniform and I would honestly not miss Hughes.

We have offense by committee

OEL will rebound (book it)

We got Rathbone coming up

Myers chips in.

Juolevi will chip in.

Add Dahlin to this group and man do we have a solid D corps.

 

Points are great but defense needs to defend.

 

Agreed. I was choosing Dahlin as he is unsigned too. There are many other options of course. Nuxfan in trade proposals suggested Peelch. 

 

I am on board with trading him though. 

[erkayloomeh]

4 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Agreed. I was choosing Dahlin as he is unsigned too. There are many other options of course. Nuxfan in trade proposals suggested Peelch. 

 

I am on board with trading him though. 

Anybody know what kind of money Dahlin is asking for? 

[Smashian Kassian]

11 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I think if Hughes and Petterson cant figure out a way to share the 16m pie, one of them has got to go.

Personally, I think they both know this and will sign eventually but are holding out til the very end in hopes that they may get more.

 

Is 9m x 3 years for Petterson too much?  Or 8.5 x 3

Is 7m for 4 years for Hughes too much? 7.5 x 4

 

That is literally the limit to JB's max offers unless he trades someone. Agreed with @King Heffy that giving them UFA rights is not an option.  Esp if contract amounts are maxxed out like this.

 

I still maintain that it's pretty funny that they have the same agent. I wonder if theyve already talked with each other and know they are going to accept the offer but through agency's instructions, remained silent in hopes that JB finds a way to clear a little more salary.

 

Personally, if they were waiting for that, I think they are terrible team mates because it could potentially remove someone from the roster...

 

If I was a teammate, I might not want to stick up for these guys during battle.

 

Both those deals would be fantastic for the players. Especially Pettersson at 9m x 3 when you consider Barzal (7m x 3) and Point (6.75m x 3). That would be too much for sure on a 3 year term, if its 9M I'd be asking 6 year minimum. 

 

I view the bridge deal as what they've proven to be so far, entirely independent of their potential. Even Hughes at 7.5 is a bit high. 

 

There's been talk of a long term deal with Hughes, maybe the Canucks are smartly trying to convince him into a long term deal now (for the savings) coming off a lesser season. He was neck & neck with Makar his first year (signed 9m x 6, prob worth 10m at 8) versus last year where its hard to feel he's better than Heiskanen (8.45m x 8). Hughes probably believes he can be there with Makar again, and I could see the Canucks trying to capitalize on signing him long now (betting he can be aswell). 

 

Or I could see the situation your saying too.

 

Its really interesting (even rare) that the relationship seems to be perfectly fine through the negotiations, it makes me unsure what to think. 

 

[FaninMex]

6 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

Anybody know what kind of money Dahlin is asking for? 

No idea. 

[CanucksJay]

8 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Agreed. I was choosing Dahlin as he is unsigned too. There are many other options of course. Nuxfan in trade proposals suggested Peelch. 

 

I am on board with trading him though. 

 I think trading Hughes to Buffalo serves many purposes

We get back a 1st overall calibre player who will be the next Victor Hedman

Ppl were literally calling Dahlin a generational talent on defense heading into the draft. I was praying for the Canucks to win the lotto.

Dahlin is happy to get the hell out of Buffalo and will sign a team friendly contract with a hsitory of Swede bloodlines.

We ship Hughes to Buffalo where he has to suffer for the next 5 seasons.

His defense there will be exposed and limit his next contract.

Canucks save cap space with Dahlin and will overall see better value (performance over contract)

Petterson is locked up at a fair cap hit.

We have more than enough at that point to re-sign Boeser next year and Horvat the year after

 

Lastly, JP Barry has egg on his face.

His client introduces him to Petterson to only get traded into a hockey wasteland

Edited September 22, 2021 by CanucksJay

[N4ZZY]

On 9/14/2021 at 5:14 PM, cuporbust said:

It's ridiculous 

Kaprizov got 5 years. There's no way we should sign Petey and walk him straight to UFA status. That would be the dumbest move Benning could make for this team. Feels like to me, it's term for Pettersson, and that he might not be convinced that Benning is the guy to make this team a competitive one. If it's not term, then what could be taking so long for management to sign Pettersson and now Hughes as well? 

 

[N4ZZY]

3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

 I think trading Hughes to Buffalo serves many purposes

We get back a 1st overall calibre player who will be the next Victor Hedman

Ppl were literally calling Dahlin a generational talent on defense heading into the draft. I was praying for the Canucks to win the lotto.

Dahlin is happy to get the hell out of Buffalo and will sign a team friendly contract with a hsitory of Swede bloodlines.

We ship Hughes to Buffalo where he has to suffer for the next 5 seasons.

His defense there will be exposed and limit his next contract.

Canucks save cap space with Dahlin and will overall see better value (performance over contract)

Petterson is locked up at a fair cap hit.

We have more than enough at that point to re-sign Boeser next year and Horvat the year after

 

 

if Dahlin was somehow traded here for Hughes, there is no &^@#ing way he takes a discount just because of a legacy of Swedes on this team. Hell, Pettersson isn't taking no discount. 

 

[N4ZZY]

12 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

oh pretty much once u go to arbitration you trash both side and unlikely the player will re-sign as soon as he hits ufa i think at this point we are dreaming if we think QH will sign a 4x6.5 otherwise it'll be long done

6.5? Hell no. Management be &^@#ing happy with that, Hughes no way in hell he would sign that. Short changing himself if he signed that deal. 

 

He's probably looking at Makar or Heiskenan money and deals. I'm not sure if he's worth that with the season he had last year. Makar, head and shoulders above Hughes at least for right now. If Hughes can prove he can be defensively responsible and can be a number one defenseman on this team, then he deserves every penny and dollar he gets, just like Makar. But until that happens, no deal. 

 

This is interesting where these negotiations are headed. Training camp just getting under way, and still both the team's star players not signed yet. If those guys really wanted to win as badly, especially with what Pettersson has said this summer, well, this is where the rubber meets the road. 

 

Talk is cheap. 

 

[N4ZZY]

9 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

Anybody know what kind of money Dahlin is asking for? 

Wouldn't be surprised if he's asking for 9-10M. 

 

[FaninMex]

11 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Kaprizov got 5 years. There's no way we should sign Petey and walk him straight to UFA status. That would be the dumbest move Benning could make for this team. Feels like to me, it's term for Pettersson, and that he might not be convinced that Benning is the guy to make this team a competitive one. If it's not term, then what could be taking so long for management to sign Pettersson and now Hughes as well? 

 

That is just you hating on Benning. Look at what he has done to make the team better this year. Plus as others have stated Pearson can be gone next year along with Myers to allow the young guys to keep stepping in. Canucks are in a great place right now as long as players do not ask for obsene, immoral contracts.

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, N4ZZY said:

if Dahlin was somehow traded here for Hughes, there is no &^@#ing way he takes a discount just because of a legacy of Swedes on this team. Hell, Pettersson isn't taking no discount. 

 

I think psychologically, getting the heck out of a tirefire in Buffalo to a beautiful city like Van with its up and coming roster and seeing ppl like the Sedins sitting on the advisory board looks very attractive. We've got OEL, Hogs, Petterson on the team. 

I know I wouldnt be overly greedy in that situation if that was me.

 

Either way, cap hit will be less than Hughes.  I truly think over the course of career, he has more upside so either he will

a) sign a longterm deal at a fair caphit (which would be lower than what we coudl have signed Hughes for at this point of their respective careers) and end up outperforming his contract which I firmly believe he can

or 

b) bet on himself and sign a fair bridge deal which will also be lower than Hughes' potential cap hit

 

QUestion is, would buffalo do this trade?

 

Psst... guys keep strokign fire to this and start rumors... Hughes will sign immediately when he catches wind.

 

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Wouldn't be surprised if he's asking for 9-10M. 

 

lol for doing what?

 

[Alienhuggyflow]

4 minutes ago, Xol said:

 

I mean if they don't want to be here... we've all seen how handing out huge contracts is working out for the Oilers and Toronto.

 

I don't see them not signing for real though, but its frustrating and really not a good look for who are supposed to be the faces of the franchise for the next decade. We've waited a long time to see a talented young team put together... but in typical Canucks fashion our 2 brightest stars are in Michigan 5 days before preseason, playing contract chicken with the team. Reminds me of Bure in a sad way.

I get its frustrating but by all accounts they both want to be here long-term but as of now its really not an option for both. Plus both having the same agent makes it trickier because he has an obligation to get the best deals for both his clients and finally for all we know there are multiple deals that Quinn has agreed on but hinge on Petey who has to be announced before or at the same time to avoid a team from offer-sheeting him because they would know based on Quinns contract exactly how to structure it to make it a pain in the ass to match.

That being said its paramount that both are here for camp, in Peteys case he seemed to struggle without a real camp last year and Quinn needs to learn a new system and they need to see who out of OEL, Hamonic and Poolman is the best fit for him, they cannot have a rotating partner like last season.

 

You had suggested moving him to NJ, I think it would be a mistake to move him at all but if they did they make a terrible partner. No matter what the haters say his value is sky high and NJ has nobody that moves the needle, a D who has been a 55 point D who had a record setting bubble would get at worst a top prospect and a 1st.

From the Wings its Seider and a 1st. I know people love him but he's had zero NHL games and will be likely not get a ton of points but his defensive game should be elite. 

Hes worth more than any top D prospect, trading him would be a massive risk considering none will touch him offensively and if he can get back to 2019 as a baseline or even better and likely is he becomes a guy who isn't elite defensively but is 60+ points a year EK who will be in the running for the Norris potentially through his peak.