[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Anaheim Ducks | Nov. 14, 2021

[ShawnAntoski]

7 minutes ago, spook007 said:

That is true, and it remains to be seen, how far down the line head will roll... be it from the GM or only further down the line.

Yeah, Aquaman might be a billionaire; but he might want to look at a POH, that has had success on/off the ice to help him.   Perhaps, in Vegas he saw McPhee for some advice cause if I was in his shoe, that would be something I would look into ????

[Ajax-]

5 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Preseason, Green had Lockwood and DiGuesppe forechecking  and puching both D men at the same time as they had speed to burn. This was causing bad passes and all sorts of trouble for teams. Then, he sent them both to the AHL and went to a more passive D with players in the neutral zone. Systems?

A hockey forecheck is an attempt to regain control of the puck after the other team possessed it. Some hockey forecheck systems put pressure on the other team in your offensive zone or the neutral zone. A 2-2-1 forecheck is an aggressive system that takes some chances if your team is behind late in the game and needs to score. Having two forwards forechecking and leaving only one defenseman back to stop a breakaway is risky. The 1-2-2 is a more conservative forecheck to use when your team is ahead—it’s designed to keep the other team from gaining an advantage with an odd-man rush by having only one forward forechecking deep in the offensive zone, with four defenders in the middle and back lines to defend, and thus avoid letting the opposing team gain an advantage.

[ShawnAntoski]

2 minutes ago, Ajax- said:

There are a variety of hockey defensive systems, primarily related to how the defense positions itself, and each player’s responsibilities within those defensive schemes. Two of the more common defensive systems are the 2-1-2 and the 1-2-2. In the 2-1-2, two defenders will be out front at the top of the circles working to push the offensive play to either side. The two players near the goal line will defend the goal and attack the puck in the corner on their side. The center of this scheme is a supportive position that fills in gaps and assists the others. In the 1-2-2, a point defender chases the puck side to side and harasses the player with the puck to try to force bad passes or steal the puck. The back four defenders play a box to keep the puck out of the center of the ice.

There might be an opening with the Canucks 

[Timråfan]

8 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Burke said the quote, you are misusing it. If you have a complaint, take it up with him. Everyone cares. Look at the idiots that were stalking Benning. Think that is a Canucks thing?

 

4. Media with pitchforks?

If everyone cares Benning should really know what to say to media… If not, get rid of him.

[spook007]

9 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

If Dahlen told Petey that the Canucks wanted to get rid of him and then Benning goes out and smash Dahlen in public.

How do you think Petey’s feelings is in that situation? Petey knows his boss is an äss and has to deal with him as polite as he can because Benning holds parts of Peteys future in his hands.

Not good for the athlete that has to focus 110% on hockey.

His muscles don’t need the stress involved in this situation.

And that is just the Dahlen issue.

Then you have Stecher, Tanev, Toffoli, Tryamkin, Gadjovic, Juoveli, MacEvan and probably a few more players I forgot. 
All the small issues takes a piece out of the players motivation especially if it’s a rough period. 
So the only good thing to do is to get rid of the old baggage and start iver with a new GM with no begative baggage lurking in the background. 

Lets start by saying that this a professional league, and the most prestigious there is... If players are so hooked on friendships, they can not accept they don't get to play together, then maybe he isn't right for this team... I work for folks that makes decisions I don't agree upon, but that doesn't stop me from working there. And to be fair on both sides the Dahlen issue has a lot of he said/ she said bla bla bla... 

With regards to Tanev, it was also understandable, although it has come back to bite JB in the arse... 

Prior to Tanev leaving the vast majority wanted him to sign here for reduced money, as he was always injured for half the season.

Stecher was a bit like Hutton. Going to be too expensive thus sent packing.

Toffoli... was a stop gap for Boeser being injured... and glad being did the trade at the time, as its the only bit of sunlight there had been in a loooong time...

Tryamkin... You don't know the real reason for him not wanting to come back.... He didn't want to stay here first time around, and we'll see if he signs for another NHL club next year. If so we can start to point fingers...until then we just don't know for sure (and I was hoping big time, he would be back).

Gadjovich... Green should be sacked for that transaction alone... 

Juolevi... see above...

MacEwan... although liking the boy, our future are surely not going to depend on a player like MacEwan... but Benning should have made sure there would be more beef in the line up, and that is on him.

 

Anyway, we been around this debate a few times, and lets agree to disagree on the Dahlem issue... There is obviously more to that story than either of us know...on both sides.

[Ajax-]

Just now, ShawnAntoski said:

There might be an opening with the Canucks 

Well this just basic Bantam Midget stuff 

 

Just getting frustrated and tired with all the supposed &^@#ing CDC experts that spew off endlessly about our horrible systems, how better other teams systems are.......

 

 

 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

11 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Burke said the quote, you are misusing it. If you have a complaint, take it up with him. Everyone cares. Look at the idiots that were stalking Benning. Think that is a Canucks thing?

 

4. Media with pitchforks?

Talk to an nhl player or coach. They know the outside noise the can’t control is just part of the job. They don’t make career defining decisions based on it.

 

If it is true that quality coaches do not want to coach in Van it is exclusively due to either personal reasons like not wanting to move there or ownership management and the work environment.

 

Every coach who isn’t coaching knows there are only 32 nhl head coach jobs. If they want to coach they aren’t that picky unless they are in high demand.

 

I have never met a single professional coach who didn’t believe they could fix any problem with any roster. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[stanleysteamersmyl]

2 hours ago, RakuRaku said:

I heard Queenville is at the employment centre now filling out forms for benefits....

Quenneville can buy many employment centres and massage parlors. 

Joel Quenneville’s net worth / earnings / salary history. He made US$39,332,195 (US$45,606,500 in today's dollars), ranking #290 in NHL / hockey career earnings. He is currently under contract for US$0 which will bring his hockey fortune to US$39,332,195.

 

Everybody's favorite President.

Gary Bettman’s net worth / earnings / salary history. He made US$119,902,074 (US$137,313,398 in today's dollars), ranking #5 in NHL / hockey career earnings.

Did you know that Gary Bettman accumulated the 4th largest NHL fortune with $120M?

 

 

[spook007]

7 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, Aquaman might be a billionaire; but he might want to look at a POH, that has had success on/off the ice to help him.   Perhaps, in Vegas he saw McPhee for some advice cause if I was in his shoe, that would be something I would look into ????

Think from day one the biggest problem was to get a president, who didn't see the path forward like the GM...

Once the POH (Linden) packed it in, Aquilinis should have found another POH... and guidelines should have been laid for the way forward. 

I think POH should probably be the link between ownership and GM, and deliver the owners idea to the GM, and the Benning should follow the line laid...

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

8 minutes ago, stanleysteamersmyl said:

Quenneville can buy many employment centres and massage parlors. 

Joel Quenneville’s net worth / earnings / salary history. He made US$39,332,195 (US$45,606,500 in today's dollars), ranking #290 in NHL / hockey career earnings. He is currently under contract for US$0 which will bring his hockey fortune to US$39,332,195.

 

Everybody's favorite President.

Gary Bettman’s net worth / earnings / salary history. He made US$119,902,074 (US$137,313,398 in today's dollars), ranking #5 in NHL / hockey career earnings.

Did you know that Gary Bettman accumulated the 4th largest NHL fortune with $120M?

 

 

Bettman works for the owners not the league.  So as long as he can make the owners rich, he'll be employed.  And Bettman may be Darth Sidious but he isnt' dumb as I believe the rules were changed so that it would take more than a simple majority vote (of league team governors) to fire him.

[ShawnAntoski]

7 minutes ago, Ajax- said:

Well this just basic Bantam Midget stuff 

 

Just getting frustrated and tired with all the supposed &^@#ing CDC experts that spew off endlessly about our horrible systems, how better other teams systems are.......

 

 

 

 

Hard to ignore, the on ice product based on the eye test; and they are losing with no sense of urgency is concerning as well. 

 

Imo, no stats or fluff can explain the UNINSPIRING losses.

[Plaguez]

23 minutes ago, Ajax- said:

Please explain hockey systems? Can you?

Green's system? Please tell us what and how poor strategies are?

 

re strategies and systems the same?

 

Can any of you CDC experts explain a simple hockey system? 

 

And yet it's your favorite word?

 

 

Green's system relies on dump & chase on offense. In order for that system to work you need fast, hard wingers who can get to the puck and start the cycle. The Canucks generate most of their scoring over the past few years from the cycle, for that to work they need to have puck control, current dump & chase system is removing the puck from their possession and leaving it up to chance that they get there before the defense.

 

That is one obvious system that needs to change. With players like Pettersson, Boeser, Miller, Hollander, Garland, OEL & Hughes the system should change to a controlled entry system.  That's what I am talking about when I talk systems.  Our defensive structure I blame more on players trying to make something happen more than the structure itself, from what I see King is trying to get the team to defend by committee which is breaking down too often because they are getting caught up ice chasing the dump-ins.

[kloubek]

13 minutes ago, nuck-lifer said:

Just fire Green already

 

Not because he's a terrible coach, because they need a new voice behind the bench, a fresh perspective, and a new on ice system structure that the players can embrace and believe in.

 

I remember when AV started with the Canucks and his first year he implemented a very defensive based system because he knew he didn't have the horses to drive offensive play.

Once the Sedins and Co could drive play he adapted his style to match his roster. . Signs of an experienced coach that can adapt.

 

Green doesn't seem to have the experience to adjust his coaching style to work with his roster it seems so time to move on

I largely agree. Like you said, it isn't that Green is necessarily a bad coach - it's just that the systems this team runs simply don't work for our personnel. They've never really worked - at least from a defensive perspective. For years, our goalies have had to stand on their heads nightly to get us any points, and that's just not acceptable. And while we've had a decent PP before under Green and Company, we can't even seem to get that right anymore. 

 

The fact is, many of our players have only known the way that Green coaches, and have not experienced anything much different - at least during their NHL careers. Play for one coach, play one way. Our players deserve to be offered broader experience and a fresh perspective to bring some dynamism to the team. It's just unfortunate that ownership and Benning didn't move on this before signing Green to another contract, since all the red flags have been apparent for quite apparent for some time. Now with limited time and limited coaching options available, that decision may have already cost us the season.

People are ragging on Benning, but honestly, I'm not sure that's where the fault lies with the exception that I'm sure he wanted to move forward with Green and that may have been a mistake. On paper, to start this season I felt this team looked good. We had solid goaltending and a forward top 9 who looked like scoring would come in droves. The only real weakness I could see was the lack of a shutdown defender - which remains something this team lacks. But overall, I thought good things were going to happen. 

 

Besides our clearly awful special teams, I think it's pretty clear to see that if our stars were producing, we would be winning more games than we are. Most of our losses were close games. Really, our "big 3" (Boeser, Pettersson and Horvat) should have about 50% more points than they do, If we got those guys going, we'd be in much better shape, and so would our PP. Is that Green's fault? Or do we put this on the players themselves? Green says he is confident we will see a better team as the season progresses, and I am guessing he's saying this specifically with expectations that these 3 will get up to snuff eventually.

[CanucksJay]

35 minutes ago, Ajax- said:

Please explain hockey systems? Can you?

Green's system? Please tell us what and how poor strategies are?

 

re strategies and systems the same?

 

Can any of you CDC experts explain a simple hockey system? 

 

And yet it's your favorite word?

 

 

I don't need to be a rocket scientist but let's see.... 

1) Passive box on the PK? Let them pass it along the outside but try to get in the shooting lanes. Don't tire yourself out by being aggressive and pressuring. Try to block and clear or let Demko save and then try to clear rebound. 

 

Funny though becuase they are also letting through an absurdly high amount of cross seam passes right through the box. 

 

 

2) PP? Same as PK but reversed. Pass it along the outside and try to free up Petey on the one timer. 

Have we even tried to play below the goal line yet? We just started moving our feet. 

 

This is reinforced / validated by Petey who said last year, that PP strategy worked but this year it seems like teams have caught on and so they are  trying to switch it up with more movement and switches. 

 

3) DEFENSIVE BREAKOUTS- D retrieves puck below the goal line, winger skates to the hashmarks and stops and receives the puck. (at this point, he is just a passer as his feet is not even moving. No other options for this winger besides a cross ice pass or smashing it off the boards and giving up posession) 

Opposite side winger and centre streak down their lanes (they don't even mix that up or do any crossing / run subtle interference... Just straight lines... 

Winger either passes it right away (intercepted or tipped half the time by 3rd forechecker) or if winger sees the opposing centre in the passing lane, they'll hold if for a split second to let the opposite winger create space and give him a passing lane. 

Problem is, opposing coaches will know this is coming so D comes and pinches down on the winger to take away time forcing a turnover.. 

 

This is where Green drives me bonkers. This system is so predictable and unchanging that opposing coaches auto do this. It started against Mtl last year and any team that spent time watching video will just rinse and repeat. 

 

For TG, to know that opposing team will send 2 fore checkers in deep, with 3rd forechecker in the middle of the ice and the D pinching in along the boards to the winger yet he can't figure out how to take this knowledge into a clean odd man breakout is shocking. 

 

Canucks almost caught the ducks on one play yesterday where they did something out of the norm and I caught it right away because it wasn't the usual play. 

That is in itself a problem when someone like me knows exactly what our guys are going to do 95% of the time. 

I don't care if we ice it a couple of times. On one of these puck retrievals, just send up someone like Hogs and goal suck at their blue line and have Hughes smash it down the ice and turn it into a foot race . Worst case is icing and the opposing team reevaluating their strategy whether they should be sending 4 guys in below our hashmarks. 

 

 

 

An analogy is football. Opposing team comes with a full blitz every single play. Any competent coach or qb will call an audible for a quick hit to the slot or motion with WR coming in for a quick slant route while an RB will step up with a chop block on the closest threat. 

 

Do you guys remember that playoff game where I think it was Lapierre or Higgins sitting on the dasher of the bench boards waving their stick and then receiving a pass that caught the other team completely unprepared? 

Basically we had 4 guys on the ice with the 5th (Higgins) pretty much goal sucking without anyone noticing. 

 

TG only knows how to play hockey one way, and the problem is, he's forcing a team to play only one way. 

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[RWJC]

46 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Thanks Deb... Its important to nip these reports in the bud from the start... 

Hirsch should never be allowed access to the team again. 

Reports like these shouldn't only be some kind of hear say, where its up to the reader to interpret it , any which way they like...

And another example of how Hirsch keeps capping his own potential in broadcasting

Edited November 15, 2021 by RWJC

[RWJC]

3 minutes ago, AC30 said:

Yeah I thought this might be it because Green said they were a dump and Chase team meanwhile Miller said they aren’t a dump and Chase team

Is this a real quote?

[Ajax-]

11 minutes ago, PLOGUE said:

Green's system relies on dump & chase on offense. In order for that system to work you need fast, hard wingers who can get to the puck and start the cycle. The Canucks generate most of their scoring over the past few years from the cycle, for that to work they need to have puck control, current dump & chase system is removing the puck from their possession and leaving it up to chance that they get there before the defense.

 

That is one obvious system that needs to change. With players like Pettersson, Boeser, Miller, Hollander, Garland, OEL & Hughes the system should change to a controlled entry system.  That's what I am talking about when I talk systems.  Our defensive structure I blame more on players trying to make something happen more than the structure itself, from what I see King is trying to get the team to defend by committee which is breaking down too often because they are getting caught up ice chasing the dump-ins.

Good observation 

 

Here's a description of some basic SYSTEMS for the experts on CDC 

 

On the other side of the ice, you’ll have a hockey system to kill a power play when the other team has a man advantage. The penalty killing systems include the diamond, where the players form a diamond pattern, or a 1-2-1. The point is a forward who defends the opponent’s puck handler and tries to disrupt the play from even getting started. The next two, a forward and a defenseman, match up with the shooters on each side, while the lower defenseman sets up in the slot. The box penalty kill system is basically a 2-2 defensive scheme. In the box, you shut down the middle to prevent scoring opportunities from good angles while forcing bad shots. Another option is the triangle and one, where one player chases the puck and harasses passers and shooters while the three remaining players form a triangle in front of the goal

 

 

 

 

[IceHockeyPlayer]

4 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I don't need to be a rocket scientist but let's see.... 

1) Passive box on the PK? Let them pass it along the outside but try to get in the shooting lanes. Don't tire yourself out by being aggressive and pressuring. Try to block and clear or let Demko save and then try to clear rebound. 

 

Funny though becuase they are also letting through an absurdly high amount of cross seam passes right through the box. 

 

 

2) PP? Same as PK but reversed. Pass it along the outside and try to free up Petey on the one timer. 

Have we even tried to play below the goal line yet? We just started moving our feet. 

 

This is reinforced / validated by Petey who said last year, that PP strategy worked but this year it seems like teams have caught on and so they are  trying to switch it up with more movement and switches. 

 

3) DEFENSIVE BREAKOUTS- D retrieves puck below the goal line, winger skates to the hashmarks and stops and receives the puck. (at this point, he is just a passer as his feet is not even moving. No other options for this winger besides a cross ice pass or smashing it off the boards and giving up posession) 

Opposite side winger and centre streak down their lanes (they don't even mix that up or do any crossing / run subtle interference... Just straight lines... 

Winger either passes it right away (intercepted or tipped half the time by 3rd forechecker) or if winger sees the opposing centre in the passing lane, they'll hold if for a split second to let the opposite winger create space and give him a passing lane. 

Problem is, opposing coaches will know this is coming so D comes and pinches down on the winger to take away time forcing a turnover.. 

 

This is where Green drives me bonkers. This system is so predictable and unchanging that opposing coaches auto do this. It started against Mtl last year and any team that spent time watching video will just rinse and repeat. 

 

For TG, to know that opposing team will send 2 fore checkers in deep, with 3rd forechecker in the middle of the ice and the D pinching in along the boards to the winger yet he can't figure out how to take this knowledge into a clean odd man breakout is shocking. 

 

Canucks almost caught the ducks on one play yesterday where they did something out of the norm and I caught it right away because it wasn't the usual play. 

That is in itself a problem when someone like me knows exactly what our guys are going to do 95% of the time. 

I don't care if we ice it a couple of times. On one of these puck retrievals, just send up someone like Hogs and goal suck at their blue line and have Hughes smash it down the ice and turn it into a foot race . Worst case is icing and the opposing team reevaluating their strategy whether they should be sending 4 guys in below our hashmarks. 

 

 

 

An analogy is football. Opposing team comes with a full blitz every single play. Any competent coach or qb will call an audible for a quick hit to the slot or motion with WR coming in for a quick slant route while an RB will step up with a chop block on the closest threat. 

 

Do you guys remember that playoff game where I think it was Lapierre or Higgins sitting on the dasher of the bench boards waving their stick and then receiving a pass that caught the other team completely unprepared? 

Basically we had 4 guys on the ice with the 5th (Higgins) pretty much goal sucking without anyone noticing. 

 

TG only knows how to play hockey one way, and the problem is, he's forcing a team to play only one way. 

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Really great analysis. I agree with you and you hit the nail squarely on the head! The frustrating part is Green is extremely inflexible and not willing to change it up. It has been very predictable every single game. Change it up a little! What is there to lose at this point. The sign of a good coach is to adjust between games and within a game and work with the personnel you have and with the personalties in the room (not mind games).

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, Ajax- said:

Good observation 

 

Here's a description of some basic SYSTEMS for the experts on CDC 

 

On the other side of the ice, you’ll have a hockey system to kill a power play when the other team has a man advantage. The penalty killing systems include the diamond, where the players form a diamond pattern, or a 1-2-1. The point is a forward who defends the opponent’s puck handler and tries to disrupt the play from even getting started. The next two, a forward and a defenseman, match up with the shooters on each side, while the lower defenseman sets up in the slot. The box penalty kill system is basically a 2-2 defensive scheme. In the box, you shut down the middle to prevent scoring opportunities from good angles while forcing bad shots. Another option is the triangle and one, where one player chases the puck and harasses passers and shooters while the three remaining players form a triangle in front of the goal

 

 

 

 

Thanks 

Did you learn that playing NHL 2005? 

 

Just joking

 

But yes that is the most basic form of systems

 

Much like the umbrella pp etc 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by CanucksJay

[Ajax-]

8 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I don't need to be a rocket scientist but let's see.... 

1) Passive box on the PK? Let them pass it along the outside but try to get in the shooting lanes. Don't tire yourself out by being aggressive and pressuring. Try to block and clear or let Demko save and then try to clear rebound. 

 

Funny though becuase they are also letting through an absurdly high amount of cross seam passes right through the box. 

 

 

2) PP? Same as PK but reversed. Pass it along the outside and try to free up Petey on the one timer. 

Have we even tried to play below the goal line yet? We just started moving our feet. 

 

This is reinforced / validated by Petey who said last year, that PP strategy worked but this year it seems like teams have caught on and so they are  trying to switch it up with more movement and switches. 

 

3) DEFENSIVE BREAKOUTS- D retrieves puck below the goal line, winger skates to the hashmarks and stops and receives the puck. (at this point, he is just a passer as his feet is not even moving. No other options for this winger besides a cross ice pass or smashing it off the boards and giving up posession) 

Opposite side winger and centre streak down their lanes (they don't even mix that up or do any crossing / run subtle interference... Just straight lines... 

Winger either passes it right away (intercepted or tipped half the time by 3rd forechecker) or if winger sees the opposing centre in the passing lane, they'll hold if for a split second to let the opposite winger create space and give him a passing lane. 

Problem is, opposing coaches will know this is coming so D comes and pinches down on the winger to take away time forcing a turnover.. 

 

This is where Green drives me bonkers. This system is so predictable and unchanging that opposing coaches auto do this. It started against Mtl last year and any team that spent time watching video will just rinse and repeat. 

 

For TG, to know that opposing team will send 2 fore checkers in deep, with 3rd forechecker in the middle of the ice and the D pinching in along the boards to the winger yet he can't figure out how to take this knowledge into a clean odd man breakout is shocking. 

 

Canucks almost caught the ducks on one play yesterday where they did something out of the norm and I caught it right away because it wasn't the usual play. 

That is in itself a problem when someone like me knows exactly what our guys are going to do 95% of the time. 

I don't care if we ice it a couple of times. On one of these puck retrievals, just send up someone like Hogs and goal suck at their blue line and have Hughes smash it down the ice and turn it into a foot race . Worst case is icing and the opposing team reevaluating their strategy whether they should be sending 4 guys in below our hashmarks. 

 

 

 

An analogy is football. Opposing team comes with a full blitz every single play. Any competent coach or qb will call an audible for a quick hit to the slot or motion with WR coming in for a quick slant route while an RB will step up with a chop block on the closest threat. 

 

Do you guys remember that playoff game where I think it was Lapierre or Higgins sitting on the dasher of the bench boards waving their stick and then receiving a pass that caught the other team completely unprepared? 

Basically we had 4 guys on the ice with the 5th (Higgins) pretty much goal sucking without anyone noticing. 

 

TG only knows how to play hockey one way, and the problem is, he's forcing a team to play only one way. 

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There, good explanations, basic hockey system stuff, not rocket science. All teams implement multiple systems all game long.

 

Canucks systems are not radically different than other teams, it's the execution by players and the implmentation, when, who, where, by the coaches to manage the game