[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[awalk]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

There aren’t any good choices… well at least since magic genies don’t really exist to turn me into an Art Ross and Selke winner that dns to rescue the team.

 

Our of the array of bad choices available to us… trading players on expiring contracts is vastly preferable to losing them for nothing.

 

Horvat, Miller, and Boeser are in that category.

 

Petterson can suck eggs, he is signed for 3 years and is club controller after that so that gives us a little time to show some progress.  We don’t have that for the other three guys.

We have this obsession with individuals in Vancouver. I can't remember the last time we sold high on someone for future assets like picks and prospects where the player wasn't demanding out. I love Bo Horvat, he's one of my favorite players in the league. There are, and will be, other Bo Horvats. 

[Shekky]

hmmm wonder if there is a trade in the works 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Shekky

[Coconuts]

5 hours ago, PLOGUE said:

I think it's a great idea to continue to get smaller and softer. That's what playoff hockey is all about.

 

Will go down as one of the worst trades in Canucks history if it happens.

Holy hyperbole Batman.  

 

Moving Miller wouldn't be even remotely close to that, as if he's being moved we're likely get high quality assets back. Whether that's picks, prospects, players, or some combination thereof. 

 

Miller's value will never be higher than it is now, with the rest of the season and the next season at roughly 5.3M. We're clearly not making the playoffs, and he'll be a UFA the summer after next, what do you think the odds of Miller stick around to spend the rest of his prime on a loser are? If we gamble on our being better next season and $&!# the bed he's walking. We're not a team that can afford to lose top assets for nothing. 

 

As for playoff hockey, that don't mean &^@# all when a team isn't making the playoffs. Moving Miller would be like the Avs moving Duchene. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Coconuts

[Provost]

1 minute ago, awalk said:

We have this obsession with individuals in Vancouver. I can't remember the last time we sold high on someone for future assets like picks and prospects where the player wasn't demanding out. I love Bo Horvat, he's one of my favorite players in the league. There are, and will be, other Bo Horvats. 

Spot on.
 

We can barely let go of fringe players and spend years whining about it.  The Cam Neely syndrome.

 

 “But… Michael Grabner could be a 40 goal scorer!!!”    “Don’t trade Virtanen during his hot streak, he is a sure fire PPG power forward!”

 

The only real argument against trading Horvat is that we somehow need both a 2nd and a 3rd line centre next year and if we trade Miller out we would have no one left to play the position.

 

If we traded Miller and Boeser before this deadline and then Horvat in the offseason (once we signed/traded for someone to replace him) it could be a little more prudent.

 

Of course if we could get a placeholder in a trade back we could more easily do it.  Like if we got a 2nd round pick in a trade and flipped it for Tierney  who isn’t as good as Horvat but is a solid PKer.

 

 

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, mll said:

Brodin has an NMC with Guerin calling him an elite D.  What makes you think they would ever consider parting with him? 

 

The Wild aren't even interested in Boeser as explained by Kuzma in his article.  The Wild's interest is in Miller - they are weak down the middle and want to make a hockey trade.  Fiala is available because he is a winger.

 

The trade doesn't make sense for Vancouver.  No reason to force something else.

 

I don’t see us moving Miller.  
He is by far our best workhorse..

id keep Millers work over Horvats,  and let the true Captain have this club.

 

you never know where these conversations lead,.  “ no not interested” gets sweetened and then..

boom.

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Spot on.
 

We can barely let go of fringe players and spend years whining about it.  The Cam Neely syndrome.

 

 “But… Michael Grabner could be a 40 goal scorer!!!”    “Don’t trade Virtanen during his hot streak, he is a sure fire PPG power forward!”

 

The only real argument against trading Horvat is that we somehow need both a 2nd and a 3rd line centre next year and if we trade Miller out we would have no one left to play the position.

 

If we traded Miller and Boeser before this deadline and then Horvat in the offseason (once we signed/traded for someone to replace him) it could be a little more prudent.

 

Of course if we could get a placeholder in a trade back we could more easily do it.  Like if we got a 2nd round pick in a trade and flipped it for Tierney  who isn’t as good as Horvat but is a solid PKer.

 

 

I understand fans getting attached to players, I do too, but some fans get attached to the notion that you can somehow keep the band together. Sports don't work that way, it very rarely happens. Whether the price of losing or the price of winning, players are always moving. Hell, Miller coming here was his second time being traded. 

 

Sentimentally holding on to assets until they depreciate doesn't benefit the organization. Obviously you've got to weigh the pros and cons, and there are many things to consider when it comes to trades, but on some level we need to be prepared to pull the trigger on tough decisions. 

[JustABandwagoner]

1 hour ago, CanuckinEdm said:

Only way I trade Miller to Minny is for Fiala and Boldy

Call me crazy but i would consider a boldy 1 for 1. Not saying I would for sure do it, but its something i would def heavily consider 

[bishopshodan]

Dumb Sh*t.

 

Unless JT wants out you hold on to him

 

Fire the coach already. Ffs

[Coconuts]

Just now, SilentSam said:

I don’t see us moving Miller.  
He is by far our best workhorse..

id keep Millers work over Horvats,  and let the true Captain have this club.

 

you never know where these conversations lead,.  “ no not interested” gets sweetened and then..

boom.

I see it the other way. Miller's our best trade piece outside of our first, which isn't being moved. He'll be 30 by the time his contract expires, he's unlikely to re-sign with a loser and we'll lose him via UFA after next season if we $&!# the bed again, and he's the oldest piece of our top six. 

 

Horvat's a 2c despite his struggles this season, and he's closer to the rest of our core in age. I view Miller more as a top six winger than a center, Horvat is undeniably a center. He's also our captain, which makes our trading him away less likely imo. 

 

Miller isn't more valuable to our competitive window, because by the time we're likely ready to compete he's probably already into his early 30's and closer to declining. 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I don’t see us moving Miller.  
He is by far our best workhorse..

id keep Millers work over Horvats,  and let the true Captain have this club.

 

you never know where these conversations lead,.  “ no not interested” gets sweetened and then..

boom.

the rumours certainly add some credence to CH's assertion that the problem is with "alpha" personalities in the dressing room.

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I understand fans getting attached to players, I do too, but some fans get attached to the notion that you can somehow keep the band together. Sports don't work that way, it very rarely happens. Whether the price of losing or the price of winning, players are always moving. Hell, Miller coming here was his second time being traded. 

 

Sentimentally holding on to assets until they depreciate doesn't benefit the organization. Obviously you've got to weigh the pros and cons, and there are many things to consider when it comes to trades, but on some level we need to be prepared to pull the trigger on tough decisions. 

Let's say there isn't a dressing room issue involving Miller.

Let's say its the garbage coach.

 

What message do you send to the rest of the team by trading one of top players and hardest worker? 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

Let's say there isn't a dressing room issue involving Miller.

Let's say its the garbage coach.

 

What message do you send to the rest of the team by trading one of top players and hardest worker? 

do you really think they'd move him if he wasn't part of the problem?

[SilentSam]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

the rumours certainly add some credence to CH's assertion that the problem is with "alpha" personalities in the dressing room.

But should Milers Alpha personality be a problem?

ive never seen a player in a Canuck uniform like Miller since Stan Smyl,. Blue collar every night ..

im just getting tired of the millennial, Flo for show,  Fort night  attitudes..  

I thought Horvat would be more Shane Doan like,.  He is not.

only this season have I seen him play pissed ,.  One or 2 times.

Miller leads with a personality that is is willing to bring it, and lead with it.

add to that what Garland has brought..

Perhaps there are 2 fan fav flow’s about to go.

Keep Miller.

 

The soft like Charmin attitudes have to go..

even Petey , going through a growth spurt physically is trying to be more gutsy.

Edited November 23, 2021 by SilentSam

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

do you really think they'd move him if he wasn't part of the problem?

I would hope not.

However some fans think to move him because he would get a decent return. Some orgs have probably thought that way in the past too.

 

I was pointing out my opinion on that idea. 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

But should Milers Alpha personality be a problem?

ive never seen a player in a Canuck uniform like Miller since Stan Smyl,. Blue collar every night ..

im just getting tired of the millennial, Fort night  attitudes..  

I thought Horvat would be more Shane Doan like,.  He is not,  only this season have I seen him play pissed ,.  One or 2 times.

Miller leads with a personality that is is willing to bring it, and lead with it.

I have no issue with MIller's game when he's in a good mood and things are going well.  It's his attitude when they aren't and that's a problem, a big problem.  I've been in enough dressing rooms with guys exactly like that to know how it affects the rest of the guys in the room.

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

But should Milers Alpha personality be a problem?

ive never seen a player in a Canuck uniform like Miller since Stan Smyl,. Blue collar every night ..

im just getting tired of the millennial, Fort night  attitudes..  

I thought Horvat would be more Shane Doan like,.  He is not,  only this season have I seen him play pissed ,.  One or 2 times.

Miller leads with a personality that is is willing to bring it, and lead with it.

As much as it pains me to say it...I would look to move Brock or Bo well before JT

[stawns]

Just now, bishopshodan said:

I would hope not.

However some fans think to move him because he would get a decent return. Some orgs have probably thought that way in the past too.

 

I was pointing out my opinion on that idea. 

I do think, regardless of any dressing room issues, they'd be moving him at some point, just not now.  If he is, indeed, on the block now, then it's pretty clear there's a problem.

[rekker]

16 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Holy hyperbole Batman.  

 

Moving Miller wouldn't be even remotely close to that, as if he's being moved we're likely get high quality assets back. Whether that's picks, prospects, players, or some combination thereof. 

 

Miller's value will never be higher than it is now, with the rest of the season and the next season at roughly 5.3M. We're clearly not making the playoffs, and he'll be a UFA the summer after next, what do you think the odds of Miller stick around to spend the rest of his prime on a loser are? If we gamble on our being better next season and $&!# the bed he's walking. We're not a team that can afford to lose top assets for nothing. 

 

As for playoff hockey, that don't mean &^@# all when a team isn't making the playoffs. Moving Miller would be like the Avs moving Duchene. 

Yes. Also, if the power struggle rumours in the room are true, I'd  sooner they do good by Bo and make sure everyone knows it's his team. Hopefully it paves the road to Bo's re-signing. I can't imagine this team without Bo. The second you don't have a Bo Horvat on your team you are looking for one. 

[Comeback_Kings]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

do you really think they'd move him if he wasn't part of the problem?

 

Just now, SilentSam said:

But should Milers Alpha personality be a problem?

ive never seen a player in a Canuck uniform like Miller since Stan Smyl,. Blue collar every night ..

im just getting tired of the millennial, Fort night  attitudes..  

I thought Horvat would be more Shane Doan like,.  He is not,  only this season have I seen him play pissed ,.  One or 2 times.

Miller leads with a personality that is is willing to bring it, and lead with it.

Green obviously doesn't have a problem with Miller, plays him in all situations, non stop.  MIller is earning these minutes.  

[stawns]

Just now, bishopshodan said:

As much as it pains me to say it...I would look to move Brock or Bo well before JT

I would be moving Brock, for sure, but not Bo.  No way, no how.  Regardless of what anyone thinks of him, I would say most realize JT is a JHT guy first and a team guy second.