[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[HKSR]

Just now, RWJC said:

In all fairness, no, its not.

It's dependent on so many factors at this moment and is likely a very fluid situation.

That is what happens when new management come sin with a stated intention of retooling this team.

 

What??  So you don't think he will stay, nor do you think he will leave?  Uh... OK.

[Fanuck]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

It really is one or the other.

No, it could easily be that he's undecided - if the past two years have taught us anything it's that life's unpredictable, I don't find it far fetched or outlandish to believe Miller and his family don't entirely know where they'll be in 1.5 years. 

[Coconuts]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup.  The more the teams ahead of us win the closer we are to trading Miller.

Running out of runway as the season gradually winds down

 

LA plays the Isles later, if they play how they have been they could very well go up by nine points 

 

Calgary, Vegas, Nashville, and San Jose play too

 

Although we likely aren't catching the first three, but the Sharks will be just as in it as we are if they keep grabbing points 

[48MPHSlapShot]

I think back to the Kesler trade, and what did we end up with? A late 1st, a 2nd/3rd line tweener center and a semi- D prospect. A pretty comparable package to what some here are claiming we should dump Miller for. Considering that Kesler was already on a bit of a decline, had some injury issues, and had handcuffed us into only being able to trade him to two teams, we should be able to do a lot better than that for Miller, who's in his prime, as healthy as an ox, isn't able to handcuff us, and on pace for a 90 point season.

 

Let's also keep in mind that we really don't have anything to show for that Kesler return now. Trading Miller for a grab bag of mediocre assets like we were forced to with Kesler simply because we don't want to commit to the contract we're assuming he'll want in 2023 could very likely be a massive mistake.

[Crabcakes]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

Money is the be all and end all when you have a very short window to make as much as you possibly can.  This is Millers big contract and his last shot at a contract like this.  People are delusional if they think he's not going after every last penny, and I don't that's going to be in Vancouver

 

Money is pretty important but winning a cup is a bigger deal for a lot of players.  That's why they give the so called hometown discount.  Miller has made $27M so far in his career.  If he's smart, he'll be set for life already.  I think that money can also be a point of pride or ego.  Teams have an internal cap so your not likely to be offered a contract that is more than a recently signed top player.

 

Having said all that, end of season next year, Miller will be 30 and is going to want 5 years plus and money commensurate with a 30 goal, point a game player like he has been 2 of the last 3 seasons.  Who can play centre or wing.   It's going to be big.

[RWJC]

Just now, HKSR said:

What??  So you don't think he will stay, nor do you think he will leave?  Uh... OK.

You're completely missing the point.

It's not exactly up to him whether he stays or not.

Sure you can try to argue it is because he's in control of his contract situation.  Well, as you've mentioned he's still contractually obligated for another season at his current value. That is a commitment which if required he will play out here. What the hell else is he supposed to say?

if mgmt decides to cash in on his value, they ship him off. he has no movement protection so why do you keep inferring he has complete control when he does not.

 

he's performing on the ice, and doing so above his current pay grade.

 

that's all he can control and thankfully its where his focus is and has been all along.

 

 

 

[Coconuts]

Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I think back to the Kesler trade, and what did we end up with? A late 1st, a 2nd/3rd line tweener center and a semi- D prospect. A pretty comparable package to what some here are claiming we should dump Miller for. Considering that Kesler was already on a bit of a decline, had some injury issues, and had handcuffed us into only being able to trade him to two teams, we should be able to do a lot better than that for Miller, who's in his prime, as healthy as an ox, isn't able to handcuff us, and on pace for a 90 point season.

 

Let's also keep in mind that we really don't have anything to show for that Kesler return now. Trading Miller for a grab bag of mediocre assets like we were forced to with Kesler simply because we don't want to commit to the contract we're assuming he'll want in 2023 could very likely be a massive mistake.

That's just it though, while the Kesler trade was a large one we were hamstrung by his willingness to only go to two teams, Miller has no such luxury as we voided his clause upon acquiring him

 

Whatever return we get won't be a "grab bag" for that reason alone, we're the team with the leverage, if teams don't pay they simply won't get

 

Parallels, sure, but absolutely apples and oranges 

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

No, it could easily be that he's undecided - if the past two years have taught us anything it's that life's unpredictable, I don't find it far fetched or outlandish to believe Miller and his family don't entirely know where they'll be in 1.5 years. 

I'm not talking about him.  I'm asking you if you think he will stay or leave.

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I literally gave you an example in Quinn Hughes where the result was not what a bunch of you were thinking.  Miller is not Zibanejad.  Wait and see.  To state Miller WILL SIGN FOR $8.5M TO $9M is pure speculation on your part.  Comparables don't always equate to what a player WILL sign for.

Hughes signed right around what I was thinking. Slightly over actually.

 

And yes, sorry, players sign for what their comparables are the vast majority of the time. Miller's comparables are signing for $8+. Zib, likely his closest, is $8.5x 8, with clauses.

 

Feel free to continue to bury your head in the sand though. You're awfully good at it.

[RWJC]

3 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I think back to the Kesler trade, and what did we end up with? A late 1st, a 2nd/3rd line tweener center and a semi- D prospect. A pretty comparable package to what some here are claiming we should dump Miller for. Considering that Kesler was already on a bit of a decline, had some injury issues, and had handcuffed us into only being able to trade him to two teams, we should be able to do a lot better than that for Miller, who's in his prime, as healthy as an ox, isn't able to handcuff us, and on pace for a 90 point season.

 

Let's also keep in mind that we really don't have anything to show for that Kesler return now. Trading Miller for a grab bag of mediocre assets like we were forced to with Kesler simply because we don't want to commit to the contract we're assuming he'll want in 2023 could very likely be a massive mistake.

Correct me if i'm wrong but Kesler also publicly stated he wanted out/change. That kind of lessens your value when other GMs are aware of that.

If anything this is why Miller has been a loyal soldier. He's an asset who has personally increased his value for us, himself, and management as a whole.

Why in bloody hell would he start piping up about any of this and compromise any of this. Doesn't make any sense. Fans acting like media expecting some defining answer when its right in front of them in the open.

[RWJC]

12 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I moved from the lower mainland to the island and knew we were gonna stay forever, but it still took me several years before we bought a place (not about money either cuz homes were dirt cheap back then).  We eventually bought a place once we knew our employment was long term.  Just saying... 

and congrats on coming to the island! paradise!

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, RWJC said:

You're completely missing the point.

It's not exactly up to him whether he stays or not.

Sure you can try to argue it is because he's in control of his contract situation.  Well, as you've mentioned he's still contractually obligated for another season at his current value. That is a commitment which if required he will play out here. What the hell else is he supposed to say?

if mgmt decides to cash in on his value, they ship him off. he has no movement protection so why do you keep inferring he has complete control when he does not.

 

he's performing on the ice, and doing so above his current pay grade.

 

that's all he can control and thankfully its where his focus is and has been all along.

 

 

 

Like I've said a million times to a million people on here, he doesn't need to say he loves Vancouver, nor does he need to say his family loves Vancouver.  If he didn't wanna be here, he could simply his teammates are great and he enjoys playing for the Canucks and leave it at that.  Heck, he could even say he loves it here, but could leave his family out of it completely.   

 

The fact he deliberately and exclusively mentioned how his family loves it here is likely because that's the truth!

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Hughes signed right around what I was thinking. Slightly over actually.

 

And yes, sorry, players sign for what their comparables are the vast majority of the time. Miller's comparables are signing for $8+. Zib, likely his closest, is $8.5x 8, with clauses.

 

Feel free to continue to bury your head in the sand though. You're awfully good at it.

Good for you when every defenceman around him was signing for $9m+.  Those were HIS comparables yet you thought he was gonna sign for less then $7.85m? Impressive. Bravo.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Good for you when every defenceman around him was signing for $9m+.  Those were HIS comparables yet you thought he was gonna sign for less then $7.85m? Impressive. Bravo.

Hughes had no leverage, JT has all the power

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Money is pretty important but winning a cup is a bigger deal for a lot of players.  That's why they give the so called hometown discount.  Miller has made $27M so far in his career.  If he's smart, he'll be set for life already.  I think that money can also be a point of pride or ego.  Teams have an internal cap so your not likely to be offered a contract that is more than a recently signed top player.

 

Having said all that, end of season next year, Miller will be 30 and is going to want 5 years plus and money commensurate with a 30 goal, point a game player like he has been 2 of the last 3 seasons.  Who can play centre or wing.   It's going to be big.

The problem with folks expecting some sort of hometown discount is that he hasn't even been here three full seasons, he doesn't have roots here, and we're his third team. He really doesn't owe us a damn thing, and it's unlikely we wouldn't have to pay full price.

 

People go on about "oh, he loves Vancouver!" and it doesn't really mean anything. You see players sign significant deals with teams they like or love every year. Hockey is a business and dollars make things run.

 

 

[RWJC]

Just now, HKSR said:

Like I've said a million times to a million people on here, he doesn't need to say he loves Vancouver, nor does he need to say his family loves Vancouver.  If he didn't wanna be here, he could simply his teammates are great and he enjoys playing for the Canucks and leave it at that.  Heck, he could even say he loves it here, but could leave his family out of it completely.   

 

The fact he deliberately and exclusively mentioned how his family loves it here is likely because that's the truth!

Sure, and I loved living in Fiji.

Maybe thats all he's referring to, or choosing to.

I hope he loves playing here...his play on the ice would dictate that he does. This franchise, and his own motivations, have enabled him to become a top 10 scorer in the league this season. He's respectful and wearing his heart on his sleeve.

That's all he owes. I don't know why there needs to be speculation whether he wants to stay or not.

In the past and the now, he's proven himself.

The future is not entirely up to him, he is a tremendous asset in the moment. He knows it, management knows it, and they cast the die on his future.

Simple.

 

[stawns]

12 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Money is pretty important but winning a cup is a bigger deal for a lot of players.  That's why they give the so called hometown discount.  Miller has made $27M so far in his career.  If he's smart, he'll be set for life already.  I think that money can also be a point of pride or ego.  Teams have an internal cap so your not likely to be offered a contract that is more than a recently signed top player.

 

Having said all that, end of season next year, Miller will be 30 and is going to want 5 years plus and money commensurate with a 30 goal, point a game player like he has been 2 of the last 3 seasons.  Who can play centre or wing.   It's going to be big.

MOney comes frst 99.9% of the time

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Good for you when every defenceman around him was signing for $9m+.  Those were HIS comparables yet you thought he was gonna sign for less then $7.85m? Impressive. Bravo.

A lot of those defensemen bought more UFA years. That upped their contract value. Hughes deal bought less UFA years and he had less leverage as a 10.2c RFA. Hence the lower deal. It's really not that complicated. 

 

Based on that, be actually did sign for what his comparables showed his values to be. You just have to understand what those are, how UFA years affect that etc. It's not voodoo, rocket dentistry.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by aGENT

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

Hughes had no leverage, JT has all the power

Neither did his comparables.  Your point?

[stawns]

Just now, HKSR said:

Neither did his comparables.  Your point?

look right above you.