[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Sean Monahan]

10 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Do they need to though?  If I were the Jets, I'd be happy with how Wheeler is contributing.   In fact, the guy that was talked about being moved was Scheifele.

You ignored the first part of my post. 

[HKSR]

15 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

It’s more like a 75 point pace, with less than 20 goals and a good chunk of the assists being of the secondary variety. A career high %, in fact. 
 

If the Jets were to explore a Blake Wheeler trade, do you think they’d have to retain, add a sweetener, or take a similar contract back? I do. 

It's still a 75 point pace.  75 points in 82 games is pretty damn good if you ask me.

[grandmaster]

8 minutes ago, BPA said:

The next UFA D getting the Myers special of $6M x 6yrs.

In all fairness, Myers at the time was our only option. He was the best RHD available and we desperately needed that position filled. It was either sign him or Jake Gardiner. We made the right choice. 

Myers was at the time and still is only 1-2M overpaid. In a Cap world of 80+ million, folks need to stop using this as the cause of our Cap problems. 
 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by grandmaster

[KirkSave]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

And, not coincidentally, took his team from a real contender to a bubble playoff team along the way 

That's unfair. The Jets top players aside from Connor have had a below avg season until the last month or so. Plus their all star goalie has struggled mightily this season. CH plays like he can and they are a playoff team even with guys like Wheeler, Ehlers and Scheiffle having sub par seasons.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Just for the record, it was some research to see what 29 or 30 year olds finished top 25 in scoring in the past 10 years or so.  You know... kinda like what Miller is doing this year... kinda better to compare Miller to guys like that than Raffi Torres or Steve Bernier.  Just thought it was logical.

It's not logical to compare JT Miller to a group made up in half of hall of fame players. Why not just compare him to all players, at least in the subset? So hand picked and massaged to produce the desired results it literally tells us nothing of value. 23 players 10 hall of famers, 10 TBD lol  Sorry. This has the statistical value of a ball of twine.

 

Maybe he keeps it up to a high degree, it's possible but it's a huge risk as shown by people that use actual statistical analysis. It still doesn't change all the possible pitfalls that come with an extension.

[BPA]

6 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

In all fairness, Myers at the time was our only option. He was the best RHD available and we desperately needed that position filled. It was either sign him or Jake Gardiner. We made the right choice. 

Myers was at the time and still is only 1-2M overpaid. In a Cap world of 80+ million, folks need to stop using this as the cause of our Cap problems. 
 

 

Overpaid is still overpaid.  Just like Beagle, Russel, etc.  Multiple overpaid contracts eats away at cap space.  Canucks are a max salary cap team that is not making the playoffs (again) or just barely makes it.  That’s not going to cut it.  JR has a plan.  We will see what happens in a few days.

 

Personally don’t think Miller will be traded this TDL.  There is no rush since he still has another year on his contract.

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

It's not logical to compare JT Miller to a group made up in half of hall of fame players. Why not just compare him to all players, at least in the subset? So hand picked and massaged to produce the desired results it literally tells us nothing of value. 23 players 10 hall of famers, 10 TBD lol  Sorry. This has the statistical value of a ball of twine.

 

Maybe he keeps it up to a high degree, it's possible but it's a huge risk as shown by people that use actual statistical analysis. It still doesn't change all the possible pitfalls that come with an extension.

I look at Miller as a late 20s early 30s 1C that is currently in the top 10 scorers across the entire NHL.  Then I look and see who else has done this. 

 

I realize only a handful of players in the past couple decades have done it.  So I'm  not exactly sure why we sell him short and say he's not a special case, but instead lump him in with all the other players that have never accomplished this feat?

 

It's like saying JT Miller's point streak is not valid because he's not McDavid or Matthews.  

[HKSR]

8 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

It's not logical to compare JT Miller to a group made up in half of hall of fame players. Why not just compare him to all players, at least in the subset? So hand picked and massaged to produce the desired results it literally tells us nothing of value. 23 players 10 hall of famers, 10 TBD lol  Sorry. This has the statistical value of a ball of twine.

 

Maybe he keeps it up to a high degree, it's possible but it's a huge risk as shown by people that use actual statistical analysis. It still doesn't change all the possible pitfalls that come with an extension.

Wait, do you understand why they are TBD?

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

So, for you, Miller is a Stamkos, Kane, Crosby etc etc?

 

[Sean Monahan]

23 minutes ago, HKSR said:

It's still a 75 point pace.  75 points in 82 games is pretty damn good if you ask me.

It’s pretty good, sure but with less than 20 goals and a good chunk of points being secondary assists and/or power play points it’s not what I’d like to be paying $8.25m for. 

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

It’s pretty good, sure but with less than 20 goals and a good chunk of points being secondary assists and/or power play points it’s not what I’d like to be paying $8.25m for. 

In fairness he'd be 3rd in scoring on our team, and that's playing over 10 less games than the other guys.  15 goals and 75 points is not terrible for a guy that is more a playmaker than a goal scorer.

[Warhippy]

So on page 297 I am seeing Miller at 50-60 points for $9 ish million is good?

 

So Loui Player Name for 30-35 points per season at $6 million is bad.  But POTENTIALLY 50-60 points per season for Miller at $9+ miller is acceptable?

 

Because of what?  Intangibles?

 

Meh, whatever.  He stays or goes but I really want everyone advocating the keep him no matter what camp to remember their arguments 

[T.Demko]

56 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

American born Kesler to this day says:

 

“Vancouver will always be home to my family. Vancouver will always be where my son was born. I love it there and I go back every summer.”

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ryan-kesler-opens-up-trade-request-canucks

 

Your argument about Canada versus USA as less impact than you think. 
 

Also explain the 6 year contract he signed in Vancouver:

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/news/canucks-sign-ryan-kesler-to-long-term-contract-extension/c-521956

Geezus... we get you really, really want Miller to stay, and no one is arguing against your opinion, but if you are going to be citing articles and building up your case, this is probably not the way to go.

 

First off, you cited one sentence, that was at the very end of the article you referenced, an article that from start to end detailed Ryan Kesler demanding a trade out of the Canucks and clashing with the management for not fulfilling his request.  

 

Secondly, the "American born Kesler" who signed that 6 years contract was drafted and developed by the Vancouver Canucks.  He spent 8 years with the organization ever since he came out of College hockey, and for a young men that age, especially affiliated professionally with an organization, it is safe to assume Vancouver was at least his 2nd home by then, if not his first.

 

Even that Kesler demanded a trade out of the organization at a very similar age to J.T. Miller.  Before you get your panties in a knot, I'm not suggesting J.T. Miller demanded a trade out, but simply letting you know this is a terrible comparable.  Keep trying my guy, but you have to build a better case than this.

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

He was never top 10 in scoring.  Hence why i tried to find guys at 29 or 30 years of age that actually finished top 25 in scoring.  A rare breed of player does this.

I repeat

Jamie Benn

Tyler Seguin.

 

Look at both of them over the last 3 seasons at $9 million and $9.85 million respectively, but both signed their contracts 2-3 years earlier than Miller.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

So on page 297 I am seeing Miller at 50-60 points for $9 ish million is good?

 

So Loui Player Name for 30-35 points per season at $6 million is bad.  But POTENTIALLY 50-60 points per season for Miller at $9+ miller is acceptable?

 

Because of what?  Intangibles?

 

Meh, whatever.  He stays or goes but I really want everyone advocating the keep him no matter what camp to remember their arguments 

I'm not ever gonna say keep Miller no matter what.  There's at least 2 reasons why I'd want him traded.

1. He wants $10m+.  My line is $9m.  Anything significantly over that and I can't justify him staying for that.

2. If he doesn't want to stay, then obviously we need to move on.

 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

I repeat

Jamie Benn

Tyler Seguin.

 

Look at both of them over the last 3 seasons at $9 million and $9.85 million respectively, but both signed their contracts 2-3 years earlier than Miller.

But I repeat, neither one of them was top 10 or even top 25 in scoring at the age of 29 or 30.  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

I'm not ever gonna say keep Miller no matter what.  There's at least 2 reasons why I'd want him traded.

1. He wants $10m+.  My line is $9m.  Anything significantly over that and I can't justify him staying for that.

2. If he doesn't want to stay, then obviously we need to move on.

 

by the time we find out Miller's contract demands it's summer and his value has dropped significantly.  Miller right now is worth a lot.  We wait, and we are throwing away assets.  That's exactly what we've been doing for 8 years.  It's just the same thing.  We must move this team foward.

[HKSR]

Just now, Alflives said:

by the time we find out Miller's contract demands it's summer and his value has dropped significantly.  Miller right now is worth a lot.  We wait, and we are throwing away assets.  That's exactly what we've been doing for 8 years.  It's just the same thing.  We must move this team foward.

He's not gonna be traded by Monday... well, unless the Canucks crap the bed today and tomorrow.  Then maybe....

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

But I repeat, neither one of them was top 10 or even top 25 in scoring at the age of 29 or 30.  

Name one player signed at 30 or older to a 60 million dollar contract who's team won a cup during that contract? 

[Alflives]

Just now, HKSR said:

He's not gonna be traded by Monday... well, unless the Canucks crap the bed today and tomorrow.  Then maybe....

How we do in these games shouldn't matter.  We aren't even a playoff team with Miller being fabulous.  We lose assets not trading Miller now.  Those are assets we can't afford to lose out on aquiring.