[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Gawdzukes]

32 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Value is a funny thing, because we'll never be able to move any of our players for more than another team is prepared to pay, and in an ever shifting billion dollar NHL environment that's likely always shifting. 

Exactly. For all we know maybe Carolina or Florida go on a captivating SCF run and the only thing missing was what Miller brings. They shift gears a bit and throw us a great package for Miller. Teams are often making surprise moves and eye-opening gambles.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Leading up to the deadline my argument had been that his value was never going to be higher than it was prior to the deadline and I stick to that, but the caveat to that is that because his value was so high there were probably only going to be a few teams who'd consider trying to trade for him. Colorado could have, but they elected to bolster multiple areas of their roster instead. Tampa didn't have the space but made a deal for a cost controlled asset who's scoring. Florida went after Giroux, and they paid less than they would have for Miller because the only place Giroux was interested in being moved to was Florida, Florida had Philly by the balls. The Rangers didn't do anything of real significance, which is baffling given this was probably their best opportunity to go for it. 

 

Teams who Miller could have put over the top either didn't buy our improved their roster in different ways. Does this speak to Miller's value not being high? I wouldn't say so. But it does speak to our ask being steep and other teams not feeling like paying up for whatever reasons. It could have also been a reluctance from management to make moves that tipped the scales, we haven't really seen leaks since this management group took over so for all we know they got offers but they weren't offers they couldn't refuse. We don't know, but maybe it'll come out later. 

 

It's also trickier for teams to clear out significant cap space during the regular season as you've less flex time to work with, and you've got teams who question whether it's worth risking the chemistry of already performing rosters. I'd imagine it's easier to make significant additions or subtractions during the offseason when your current position in the standings doesn't potentially hang in the balance. 

 

It's likely we have more potential trade partners in the summer, as you and others have said, but while I think Miller's value pre-trade deadline was higher I don't think it'll have tanked or dipped a drastic amount by the offseason. And if anything, having more potential trade partners might partially mitigate any drop in value because there'll be more teams who can bid. 

 

Value is a funny thing, because we'll never be able to move any of our players for more than another team is prepared to pay, and in an ever shifting billion dollar NHL environment that's likely always shifting. 

Yes to just about all of this, especially the Ranger's blowing a chance to contend.  This summer is going to be interesting:  I expect trade talks and extension negotiations with Miller to interact in unpredictable ways.  Value is always complicated but particularly with a late bloomer like Miller in a trade that would fall somewhere in between a hockey deal and a rental.  The acquiring team has to think about the assets its willing to give up and what an extension would cost.  The balance between those two things is going to matter a lot.  I don't rule out a re-signing at all and would be happy to see it at reasonable price and term, but this could go either way and be a win or a loss.

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

Exactly. For all we know maybe Carolina or Florida go on a captivating SCF run and the only thing missing was what Miller brings. They shift gears a bit and throw us a great package for Miller. Teams are often making surprise moves and eye-opening gambles.

They do, I sure as hell didn't see them going after whatshisname outta Montreal via offer sheet but it happened. If Florida, New York, and Colorado to name a few miss out things could shift. I could see Giroux going back to Philly, I could see Kadri walking and needing to be replaced, I could see New York recognizing that they lack something in their top six or not wanting to pay Strome. And that's just three teams out of however many, coming up short will spark movement because it typically does on way or another. 

 

13 minutes ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Yes to just about all of this, especially the Ranger's blowing a chance to contend.  This summer is going to be interesting:  I expect trade talks and extension negotiations with Miller to interact in unpredictable ways.  Value is always complicated but particularly with a late bloomer like Miller in a trade that would fall somewhere in between a hockey deal and a rental.  The acquiring team has to think about the assets its willing to give up and what an extension would cost.  The balance between those two things is going to matter a lot.  I don't rule out a re-signing at all and would be happy to see it at reasonable price and term, but this could go either way and be a win or a loss.

Yup, lot of variables in play for sure. The Rangers bit still baffles me, it's one thing to not trade for Miller but they didn't do anything of significance. Copp and Motte ain't likely going to put them over the top, not sorry. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

They do, I sure as hell didn't see them going after whatshisname outta Montreal via offer sheet but it happened. If Florida, New York, and Colorado to name a few miss out things could shift. I could see Giroux going back to Philly, I could see Kadri walking and needing to be replaced, I could see New York recognizing that they lack something in their top six or not wanting to pay Strome. And that's just three teams out of however many, coming up short will spark movement because it typically does on way or another. 

 

Yup, lot of variables in play for sure. The Rangers bit still baffles me, it's one thing to not trade for Miller but they didn't do anything of significance. Copp and Motte ain't likely going to put them over the top, not sorry. 

And how much longer is the Rags’ window open?  Their best players (and by a lot) are older, except Fox.  Its like they are hoping they have young guys to take over for Panarin, Kreider, Zib, and Trouba.  They don’t.  

I’m cheering for the Rags and Avs to lose early in the playoffs.  Might help get us back (for Miller) the assets we missed out on by not trading him at his peak value before this just past TDL.  

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

And how much longer is the Rags’ window open?  Their best players (and by a lot) are older, except Fox.  Its like they are hoping they have young guys to take over for Panarin, Kreider, Zib, and Trouba.  They don’t.  

I’m cheering for the Rags and Avs to lose early in the playoffs.  Might help get us back (for Miller) the assets we missed out on by not trading him at his peak value before this just past TDL.  

That's just it, their top players are likely at their highest peak or close to it. Kreider and Panarin will be 31 before next season begins, Zibanejad will be 29, same with Strome if they keep him. Trouba's 28, Shesterkin will be 27 in December. The gap between the age of their current top players and their talented youth is quite large so it's unlikely they hit that happy medium of having their current stars be playing an elite as their youth takes over. It made a lot of sense for them to try and go for it this season, I think it was probably their best chance with this group. They could very well end up wasting career years from Shesterkin and Kreider, which is weird to say given Shesterkin hasn't been in the league long at all, but he's been that good. 

 

Not going after Miller is one thing, but I'm baffled they didn't do more. 

[MeanSeanBean]

What is Kevin Fiala just chopped liver now?!

 

That title was part of our heritage!

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's just it, their top players are likely at their highest peak or close to it. Kreider and Panarin will be 31 before next season begins, Zibanejad will be 29, same with Strome if they keep him. Trouba's 28, Shesterkin will be 27 in December. The gap between the age of their current top players and their talented youth is quite large so it's unlikely they hit that happy medium of having their current stars be playing an elite as their youth takes over. It made a lot of sense for them to try and go for it this season, I think it was probably their best chance with this group. They could very well end up wasting career years from Shesterkin and Kreider, which is weird to say given Shesterkin hasn't been in the league long at all, but he's been that good. 

 

Not going after Miller is one thing, but I'm baffled they didn't do more. 

With the Rags it’s the age of their best players.  With the Avs it’s cap room.  McKinnon has two more playoffs before he’s getting well north of 10.  Kadri is gone after this playoff.  Miller fit in perfectly with their window too.  Allvin did say Miller was not on the market.  So did JR.  We might be keeping him.  

[Coconuts]

Just now, Alflives said:

With the Rags it’s the age of their best players.  With the Avs it’s cap room.  McKinnon has two more playoffs before he’s getting well north of 10.  Kadri is gone after this playoff.  Miller fit in perfectly with their window too.  Allvin did say Miller was not on the market.  So did JR.  We might be keeping him.  

Might be, might not, there are def some teams he'd be a great fit with who can afford to trade for him. Time will tell. 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

What is Kevin Fiala just chopped liver now?!

 

That title was part of our heritage!

Kevin Fiala do we really need him? 

[Alflives]

19 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Might be, might not, there are def some teams he'd be a great fit with who can afford to trade for him. Time will tell. 

Time will tell, but if our owner has instructed management to sign Miller, then he’s staying.  It seems some Canadian teams lost huge money these last couple years.  Was it the Flames or the Oilers who lost 170 million?  Aquilini must have lost over 100 million too.  If he thinks keeping Miller means more butts in seats then I can understand his desire to tell management Miller stays.  

Trading Miller will mean a step back, and maybe our owner just can’t afford to do that?  

Edited March 31, 2022 by Alflives

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Time will tell, but if our owner has instructed management to sign Miller, then he’s staying.  It seems some Canadian teams lost huge money these last couple years.  Was it the Flames or the Oilers who lost 170 million?  Aquilini must have lost over 100 million too.  If he thinks keeping Miller means more butts in seats then I can understand his desire to tell management Miller stays.  

Trading Miller will mean a step back, and maybe our owner just can’t afford to do that?  

Could be, I'm not gonna pretend to have in depth knowledge of Aqua's finances 

 

But what I can tell you is that Rutherford left Pittsburgh because they were encroaching on his autonomy, I don't see him letting Aqua make the calls, he likely wouldn't have taken the job if that was how it was gonna be 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Coconuts

[stawns]

It's really sad that this new management group sat on their hands and did nothing when everything was in their favour at the deadline.  A colossal mistake not seeing that they were done for the year

[J-23]

Do you think the Rangers would consider a Miller for Laf deal straight up?

[-Vintage Canuck-]

4 hours ago, Shayster007 said:

What is Kevin Fiala just chopped liver now?!

 

That title was part of our heritage!

Sorry.  

[Me_]

1 hour ago, J-23 said:

Do you think the Rangers would consider a Miller for Laf deal straight up?

NYR

Miller

 

VAN

Lafrenière

Schneider

Chytil or Kravtsov

1st

 

Nothing less.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Me_

[J-23]

49 minutes ago, Me_ said:

NYR

Miller

 

VAN

Lafrenière

Schneider

Chytil or Kravtsov

1st

 

Nothing less.

 

That’s never happening lol.

[Smashian Kassian]

What if the Rangers offered Kravtsov, Lundkvist & a 1st? Is that enough?

 

I don't mind either player but I feel like we need one of the bigger pieces to be involved - Lafrienere / Schneider.  I'm also intrigued by Kakko, but not sure how to rate him.

 

I like all these players, but outside of Lafrienere & Schneider they seem like gambles (K'Andre Miller aside, who they won't move imo). We need atleast 1 surefire piece here.

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

What if the Rangers offered Kravtsov, Lundkvist & a 1st? Is that enough?

 

I don't mind either player but I feel like we need one of the bigger pieces to be involved - Lafrienere / Schneider.  I'm also intrigued by Kakko, but not sure how to rate him.

 

I like all these players, but outside of Lafrienere & Schneider they seem like gambles (K'Andre Miller aside, who they won't move imo). We need atleast 1 surefire piece here.

I don't see Laffy being available as he looks to be figuring things out, I could see Kakko being available though. I'd prefer Schneider because he brings something different than Lundqvist, but Lundqvist is nothing to sneeze at. The issue I have with Lundqvist is we've already got a player like that in Hughes, and I'd want Schneider as a potential Hughes partner. Schneider is bigger, and that matters to me as Hughes is small as is. 

 

I don't personally thing that'd be enough. Kravtsov has talent, but he's a question mark in my eyes. I'm also reluctant to acquire a Russian with what's going on with Russia, would he even be able to get over here?

 

Kakko's intriguing, great set of tools and good size. He's a pending RFA though, we'd have to re-sign him. Maybe something like a Lundqvist, Kakko, 1st package? Still a gamble, but shouldn't Kakko have more potential upside than Kravtsov? We'd be taking Kakko in return for being less bullish on Schneider. It's nothing to sneeze at, though I will say I'd rather get Schneider as part of a return. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Coconuts

[Me_]

34 minutes ago, J-23 said:

That’s never happening lol.

Well I know. Because Miller re-signs.

[Smashian Kassian]

17 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I don't see Laffy being available as he looks to be figuring things out, I could see Kakko being available though. I'd prefer Schneider because he brings something different than Lundqvist, but Lundqvist is nothing to sneeze at. The issue I have with Lundqvist is we've already got a player like that in Hughes, and I'd want Schneider as a potential Hughes partner. Schneider is bigger, and that matters to me as Hughes is small as is. 

 

I don't personally thing that'd be enough. Kravtsov has talent, but he's a question mark in my eyes. I'm also reluctant to acquire a Russian with what's going on with Russia, would he even be able to get over here?

 

Kakko's intriguing, great set of tools and good size. He's a pending RFA though, we'd have to re-sign him. Maybe something like a Lundqvist, Kakko, 1st package? Still a gamble, but shouldn't Kakko have more potential upside than Kravtsov? We'd be taking Kakko in return for being less bullish on Schneider. It's nothing to sneeze at, though I will say I'd rather get Schneider as part of a return. 

 

Lets break it down, defense targets are; KA Miller, Schneider & Lundkvist. Forward targets are; Lafrienere, Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov.

- We'll assume Laf & Miller are off the table.

 

I'd demand Schneider, and prioritize Kakko/Kravtsov over Chytil. (and probably in that order).

Personally I like Kravtsov but wouldn't view him as the main piece. I'd have his value around a 2nd, like Lias Andersson was traded for when he left the Rangers. So basically a 3rd piece in the deal. I do think he has high upside/talent though & is worth a gamble.

 

I'm not super crazy about Lundkvist either, though he's a probably a better asset than Kravtsov. I guess I'd have my priority:

 

Schneider

Kakko

Kravtsov/Lundkvist

 

As far as Kakko I haven't seen him play, but he's got the pedigree. Hasn't done much so not worried about re-signing him, its just can he recapture his potential with a fresh start? He's already an NHL player so it would be worth a gamble. 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Smashian Kassian