[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, J-P said:

How many points on the last few games though?

You mean since Bo Horvat went down with an injury and Miller had to take over the role as defensive match-up centre taking over 50% of the draws for the team? 

 

The Dallas game, he had no points, but arguably was his most complete game of the year.  Defensively responsible and helped to generate offence for his linemates.

He had a goal and an assist against OTT (so in on 2 out of the 3 goals Vancouver scored).

 

So we are basing the conclusion that he's not a difference maker because of last night?  But not the 9 games before that? 

[erkayloomeh]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

You mean since Bo Horvat went down with an injury and Miller had to take over the role as defensive match-up centre taking over 50% of the draws for the team? 

 

The Dallas game, he had no points, but arguably was his most complete game of the year.  Defensively responsible and helped to generate offence for his linemates.

He had a goal and an assist against OTT (so in on 2 out of the 3 goals Vancouver scored).

 

So we are basing the conclusion that he's not a difference maker because of last night?  But not the 9 games before that? 

I'll never understand the criticism of JT Miller. 

He's been our best player this year. 

As far as I'm concerned better than Demko.

[J-P]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

You mean since Bo Horvat went down with an injury and Miller had to take over the role as defensive match-up centre taking over 50% of the draws for the team? 

 

The Dallas game, he had no points, but arguably was his most complete game of the year.  Defensively responsible and helped to generate offence for his linemates.

He had a goal and an assist against OTT (so in on 2 out of the 3 goals Vancouver scored).

 

So we are basing the conclusion that he's not a difference maker because of last night?  But not the 9 games before that? 

Sorry, he's never been a matchuo center and never will be no matter how many faceoffs he takes and he hasn't scored when we needed it the most.

 

He's not a bad player but I think the latest stretch shows that there are at least 3-4 players on the team that are more vital both short term and long term. 

[HKSR]

Just now, J-P said:

Sorry, he's never been a matchuo center and never will be no matter how many faceoffs he takes and he hasn't scored when we needed it the most.

 

He's not a bad player but I think the latest stretch shows that there are at least 3-4 players on the team that are more vital both short term and long term. 

What the heck?  Did you watch the games?  Even the media was gushing over how complete of a game Miller played against Dallas as how instrumental he was in that win.  Is that what his role will be moving forward?  No... because his offensive ability is too good for that.

 

I really don't think you know what you're talking about:

 

- 4th highest scoring centre in the entire NHL (behind McDavid, Draisatl, and Matthews)

- 53% on faceoffs for the entire year

- 6 GWG (the most on the entire team -- which tells me he scores when we need it most)

- the most assists by any Canuck since Henrik Sedin

- 22 even strength goals -- 1st on the team

- 54 even strength points -- 1st on the team

- +11 rating (4th best on the team, 2nd best of all forwards)

 

Yes, do tell me how he's not vital to the success of this team.  Oh?  Because you say so?  Got it.

[erkayloomeh]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

What the heck?  Did you watch the games?  Even the media was gushing over how complete of a game Miller played against Dallas as how instrumental he was in that win.  Is that what his role will be moving forward?  No... because his offensive ability is too good for that.

 

I really don't think you know what you're talking about:

 

- 4th highest scoring centre in the entire NHL (behind McDavid, Draisatl, and Matthews)

- 53% on faceoffs for the entire year

- 6 GWG (the most on the entire team -- which tells me he scores when we need it most)

- the most assists by any Canuck since Henrik Sedin

- 22 even strength goals -- 1st on the team

- 54 even strength points -- 1st on the team

- +11 rating (4th best on the team, 2nd best of all forwards)

 

Yes, do tell me how he's not vital to the success of this team.  Oh?  Because you say so?  Got it.

Your stats are really hard to argue with. But some people just don't like him for some reason. 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, erkayloomeh said:

Your stats are really hard to argue with. But some people just don't like him for some reason. 

I have no idea... the best centre we've had since Henrik, and one of the best seasons by any Canuck in the history of this franchise, and yet he's still getting picked apart.  Maybe this fanbase doesn't deserve him.

[Curmudgeon]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:33 AM, JM_ said:

thats the kind of rejig I've been yapping about. We don't need to shed Miller to really improve the team. 

My sentiments exactly. JT Miller didn't actually become a top-10 NHL scorer UNTIL he arrived in Vancouver. He has scored at better than a point-per-game rate over three seasons. He himself has said he gets all the ice time and opportunity he ever wanted here in Vancouver. If he was still with Tampa, his 93 points would lead the team, but he wouldn't be leading because he wouldn't get the ice time and opportunity he's been given here. All a hockey player wants is to play as many minutes as he can, to contribute offensively and to lead by example.

 

I also think that new management team has spent the time since December assessing what this team has and what it needs. I am sure they have observed and thoroughly discussed every layer in the organization and have likely come to some conclusions. I would think that they would be impressed not only with Miller's output, but with his dedication, fitness and unquenchable thirst to win. I really think they try to re-sign him this summer. He's the kind of leader that shows up wicked, mean and nasty every game and can carry the team on his back some nights. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

I have no idea... the best centre we've had since Henrik, and one of the best seasons by any Canuck in the history of this franchise, and yet he's still getting picked apart.  Maybe this fanbase doesn't deserve him.

Miller is a very good player.  That’s not really the point behind trading him.  It’s more about where we are in our cycle of competing.  If we are two to three years away, as indicated by JR/Allvin, then where is Miller going to be as a player come that time?  Can we afford the luxury of a decliner star making our top contract?  I’d say we could afford Miller if we didn’t already have OEL at 7.2.

OEL 7.2

Hughes 7.8

Petey 7.3

Bo 7 ?

Miller 8.5?

 

Even with Demko (who is fabulous and at only 5) can we afford Miller at that cap in his declining years.  Likely he drops to #3 C behind Petey and Bo, but can we afford 8.5 for him in that role?  

[J-23]

8 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Miller's value has dropped since the TDL. And now he's proven to not be a difference maker. 

 

Maybe Allvin can still trade him to the Bruins or Capitals, etc. but VAN might not get back the huge return.  Hopefully Miller accepts under $8 if he stays, he's not worth more and will be very overpaid in about 3-4 years.

His value is still there lol

 

Best deals I see right now:

- Lysell++
- Schneider++

 

What do the Caps have to offer?

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, J-23 said:

His value is still there lol

 

Best deals I see right now:

- Lysell++
- Schneider++

 

What do the Caps have to offer?

Not sure we want Lysell.  But if we can get Schneider plus Chytil and Kravtsov that would be fantastic.  

[Provost]

9 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Miller's value has dropped since the TDL. And now he's proven to not be a difference maker. 

 

Maybe Allvin can still trade him to the Bruins or Capitals, etc. but VAN might not get back the huge return.  Hopefully Miller accepts under $8 if he stays, he's not worth more and will be very overpaid in about 3-4 years.

Please illuminate the rest of us on the evidence you have for that objectively insane statement.

He has actually climbed the top point producing list since then, and in no way has dropped off.  He has been in the top 10 in the entire league in scoring since the trade deadline.

He has had 8 points in the last 5 games when we were pushing for a playoff spot.

I still think we should probably trade him because of his earned contract demand and where our team is... but it is just nonsense to say a guy sitting with 93 points isn't a difference maker.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

Please illuminate the rest of us on the evidence you have for that objectively insane statement.

He has actually climbed the top point producing list since then, and in no way has dropped off.  He has been in the top 10 in the entire league in scoring since the trade deadline.

He has had 8 points in the last 5 games when we were pushing for a playoff spot.

I still think we should probably trade him because of his earned contract demand and where our team is... but it is just nonsense to say a guy sitting with 93 points isn't a difference maker.

Miller is obviously a difference maker, especially to a top team at his current cap cost.  He was also, because of that cap cost, worth more (nearly double) before the last TDL as a two playoff rental than he is now as a one playoff rental.  

 

[JM_]

59 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

My sentiments exactly. JT Miller didn't actually become a top-10 NHL scorer UNTIL he arrived in Vancouver. He has scored at better than a point-per-game rate over three seasons. He himself has said he gets all the ice time and opportunity he ever wanted here in Vancouver. If he was still with Tampa, his 93 points would lead the team, but he wouldn't be leading because he wouldn't get the ice time and opportunity he's been given here. All a hockey player wants is to play as many minutes as he can, to contribute offensively and to lead by example.

 

I also think that new management team has spent the time since December assessing what this team has and what it needs. I am sure they have observed and thoroughly discussed every layer in the organization and have likely come to some conclusions. I would think that they would be impressed not only with Miller's output, but with his dedication, fitness and unquenchable thirst to win. I really think they try to re-sign him this summer. He's the kind of leader that shows up wicked, mean and nasty every game and can carry the team on his back some nights. 

thats it, he's the big dog here. We can't sign him to something unreasonable of course but I do think there's something that will work for us. 

[Provost]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Miller is obviously a difference maker, especially to a top team at his current cap cost.  He was also, because of that cap cost, worth more (nearly double) before the last TDL as a two playoff rental than he is now as a one playoff rental.  

 

That should be entirely offset by the fact there would now be a dozen bidders interested in him rather than the 2-3 contenders that could have actually afforded him.  

Many teams with pretensions of being winners in the short term with the cap space and holes to fill in the summer that would want to add a 90-100 point top line centre.

His value should stay pretty high all the way to the end of July when there will be teams who missed out on big free agent targets and are desperate to improve their roster.  At that point they can also talk to him and know the cost of extending him before they trade for him which allows them cost certainty and that he isn't just a one season rental heading for free agency.

At next deadline his value will have dropped pretty substantially, but if he replicates this year... that means at that point he is still worth a 1st round pick and a blue chip prospect.

[BPA]

If we can’t make a deal with Miller, Canucks should look at all offers available.  Maybe get creative.

 

I think TO will get bounced in the first round again.  Maybe they’d want to change things up.

 

Miller + Myers for Nylander + Liljegren + 1st.

 

A 1st LW to play with EP.

 

[J-23]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Not sure we want Lysell.  But if we can get Schneider plus Chytil and Kravtsov that would be fantastic.  

Schneider should be our primary target. However, I still would consider Lysell as. a secondary target. Playmaker with perfect skating and speed. Would complement Pettersson well imo.

[Alflives]

24 minutes ago, Provost said:

That should be entirely offset by the fact there would now be a dozen bidders interested in him rather than the 2-3 contenders that could have actually afforded him.  

Many teams with pretensions of being winners in the short term with the cap space and holes to fill in the summer that would want to add a 90-100 point top line centre.

His value should stay pretty high all the way to the end of July when there will be teams who missed out on big free agent targets and are desperate to improve their roster.  At that point they can also talk to him and know the cost of extending him before they trade for him which allows them cost certainty and that he isn't just a one season rental heading for free agency.

At next deadline his value will have dropped pretty substantially, but if he replicates this year... that means at that point he is still worth a 1st round pick and a blue chip prospect.

So we keep Miller (not extended) and rethink trading him at the next TDL as a playoff rental?  What if we are in a playoff spot at the 2023 TDL?  Could we trade Miller at that time?  We might have to keep him and see him walk July 1, 2023.

Imhao we either sign or trade Miller this summer.  There is no other option.  

[Coconuts]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

I have no idea... the best centre we've had since Henrik, and one of the best seasons by any Canuck in the history of this franchise, and yet he's still getting picked apart.  Maybe this fanbase doesn't deserve him.

Dunno about that, there's a difference between acknowledging what he's done and what he brings as a player and writing him off as trash. I'd say most fans, particularly those who are on board with trading him, recognize that he's valuable. If he weren't we wouldn't have spent so much time bandying about proposals that'd be costly to another team. Some of us are wary of what he'll command, his age, where we're at in our competitive cycle, the possibility of losing him for nothing. The entire Miller debate is a nuanced thing and while there are several ongoing points of disagreement between different factions, there's a commonality in recognizing what he's done the last few seasons. 

 

It's not as simple as x player bad, not that that's what you were implying. 

[Coconuts]

56 minutes ago, J-23 said:

Schneider should be our primary target. However, I still would consider Lysell as. a secondary target. Playmaker with perfect skating and speed. Would complement Pettersson well imo.

Lysell's an intriguing target, and Miller's arguably a better fit for Boston than the Rags despite my preference for Schneider. Bergeron is a pending UFA and he'll be 37 in July, they seriously need a guy who can step in and be their top center sooner than later. 

 

Boston's also somewhere I could see him re-signing. 

 

They don't have a 1st this year but getting next year's 1st as a part of a package would be acceptable. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Coconuts

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

So we keep Miller (not extended) and rethink trading him at the next TDL as a playoff rental?  What if we are in a playoff spot at the 2023 TDL?  Could we trade Miller at that time?  We might have to keep him and see him walk July 1, 2023.

Imhao we either sign or trade Miller this summer.  There is no other option.  

I agree… I said his value likely  hasn’t dropped now and won’t until well into the summer.

 

On July 2nd if he hasn’t signed an extension they should shop him hard.  That will be the exact time a bunch of other teams get left at the alter by free agents picking someone else.  Heck, even a horrible team like Arizona may be desperate to have a good year in a new barn and at the same time have every free agent refuse  to sign for what is basically an AHL franchise.

 

Buffalo is in the same stage of just needing to win and draft picks having little value in comparison to a playoff run.

 

We could end up with a high 2023 1st round pick as part of a package.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Provost