[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, CJ44 said:

I'm having flashbacks of Markstrom and Tanev here.

 

Exactly, one thing we cannot do is let player's who have value walk for free anymore.

Yeah that's so true. We kind of went through an era where I pretty much accepted it as a downside to being a Canadian franchise. I mean rarely do Canadian teams just sell everyone off and go scorched earth. Obviously during the Cup run era it was completely justified to keep everyone, then we actually made the playoffs in Benning's (first?) year. After that we were then subsequently dealing with a whole slew of NTC's NMC's etc., including the Sedin's who were always going to be near impossible or simply not traded due to loyalty. Finally we saw a couple guys in Bieksa, Burrows, and Hansen, traded at the bitter end, but for lower returns.

 

Ultimately JB always believed a little more in the current players than in holistic long term planning. A mistake in hindsight. Tanev and Markstrom should have been traded but I see why he kept them (fan support) at the time and it did give us a good playoff run. However those days are now officially done, we've got (will have) a complete new management group, a young group of core players, new coaches, and we're competing in what was a lost season only a month ago. The current team is not good enough and JR has openly recognized that. Thankfully. If ever there was a time to capitalize on assets and plan for the future and a specific direction it's now! I'm super excited about our recent play but I'm still not in love with this current iteration of the team.

 

For me Boeser aside, one of Miller, Bo, or Petey probably has to go as it will simply be too difficult to keep three 7 million dollar + centers ... Miller will be making $8.5+ with Petey and Bo due raises soon. But yeah moving forward long term some players need to be sold in order to be continually competitive before they simply fall off the side of the earth.

[BabychStache]

15 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

For me Boeser aside, one of Miller, Bo, or Petey probably has to go as it will simply be too difficult to keep three 7 million dollar + centers ... Miller will be making $8.5+ with Petey and Bo due raises soon. But yeah moving forward long term some players need to be sold in order to be continually competitive before they simply fall off the side of the earth.

I don't think Petey is due for a raise. Likely due for the press box...

[Harold Drunken]

32 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah that's so true. We kind of went through an era where I pretty much accepted it as a downside to being a Canadian franchise. I mean rarely do Canadian teams just sell everyone off and go scorched earth. Obviously during the Cup run era it was completely justified to keep everyone, then we actually made the playoffs in Benning's (first?) year. After that we were then subsequently dealing with a whole slew of NTC's NMC's etc., including the Sedin's who were always going to be near impossible or simply not traded due to loyalty. Finally we saw a couple guys in Bieksa, Burrows, and Hansen, traded at the bitter end, but for lower returns.

 

Ultimately JB always believed a little more in the current players than in holistic long term planning. A mistake in hindsight. Tanev and Markstrom should have been traded but I see why he kept them (fan support) at the time and it did give us a good playoff run. However those days are now officially done, we've got (will have) a complete new management group, a young group of core players, new coaches, and we're competing in what was a lost season only a month ago. The current team is not good enough and JR has openly recognized that. Thankfully. If ever there was a time to capitalize on assets and plan for the future and a specific direction it's now! I'm super excited about our recent play but I'm still not in love with this current iteration of the team.

 

For me Boeser aside, one of Miller, Bo, or Petey probably has to go as it will simply be too difficult to keep three 7 million dollar + centers ... Miller will be making $8.5+ with Petey and Bo due raises soon. But yeah moving forward long term some players need to be sold in order to be continually competitive before they simply fall off the side of the earth.

Yep, I mean even a Canadian market...if you know you can't retain someone or re-sign them AND they have value you have to move them. You can't tell me nobody would have been interested in Tanev and Markstrom before or at the deadline?? Even for picks only, you simply cannot get nothing in return.  At a certain point during Marky's last season here they certainly would have made the decision that Demko was the guy moving forward? I can't imagine they waited until the off season to figure that out knowing Markstrom was on his last year. Markstrom was a hot commodity once he hit the market, that tells me there should have been some trade partners for him. My guess is Benning and the boys were stubborn on the return and team's didn't bite. A team with a thin prospect pool and lack of picks shouldn't of played their cards that way, picks and prospects are exactly what we needed. 

 

For me, we have one the the highest paid blue lines in the league and not near the top in performance. The re-tooling needs to start back there. We are second last in the league in goals from a defenseman but are top 5 in blue line spending. Demko deserves better. Something HAS to be done with Petey, he's looking better lately but still a far cry...I still see Bo as the captain for awhile, Miller will likely be moved but our back end and prospect pool needs immediate attention. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by CJ44

[Gawdzukes]

Just now, BabychStache said:

I don't think Petey is due for a raise. Likely due for the press box...

Haha true enough. I'm talking in two years time though. It looks like he's getting it together lately as well. He's definitely capable of putting up points  and that gets $$. I've been watching too long to count out a 23 year old 5th overall who has traditionally been ppg. I'm betting he gets that raise but if not I guess it makes that easier but worse for us.

 

The key with this whole trade talk is we need guys that can play at a high level in the future. Miller definitely gets us that while an off Petey at $7 is hard to gauge value on.

[appleboy]

Miller is not the kind of player that teams are looking at as a rental. He is 28 and durable. He will get a five year extension with ease. The type of team that will be looking at him will be looking for a veteran to lead a young core into the future. The Canucks will get a solid return for him or find a way to sign him for 5 more years. 

Lets not forget that he can fill the first line role for the Canucks as well as for someone else. The new GM will play a role in deciding. Having Horvat and Miller as our one two is not bad. 

We might see guys like Petey and Boeser moved and Bo and Miller resigned. No one knows yet. If Petey starts to find his grove we might see him dealt. One thing we know for sure is they will need to restructure their cap. They need some flexibility to continue building this club.

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, CJ44 said:

Yep, I mean even a Canadian market...if you know you can't retain someone or re-sign them AND they have value you have to move them. You can't tell me nobody would have been interested in Tanev and Markstrom before or at the deadline?? 

That team has a legit chance (and showed it) to get a couple rounds of valuable playoff experience. A little "mini window" with some quality vets, and the young core on ELC and bridge deals. Selling your starter and one of your best D at the TDL was never happening, under any management there IMO.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

Strome isn’t a slouch of a player, who can kill penalties as well. Plus the known chemistry with Panarin.

he's not, but I don't think he's a contender 2C, certainly not compared to Miller.  That's eseentially a 1A in Zab and a 1A in Miller down the middle.  In my opinion, any of the top contenders who grab Miller become the defacto team to beat.  

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Miller is not the kind of player that teams are looking at as a rental. He is 28 and durable. He will get a five year extension with ease. The type of team that will be looking at him will be looking for a veteran to lead a young core into the future. The Canucks will get a solid return for him or find a way to sign him for 5 more years. 

Lets not forget that he can fill the first line role for the Canucks as well as for someone else. The new GM will play a role in deciding. Having Horvat and Miller as our one two is not bad. 

We might see guys like Petey and Boeser moved and Bo and Miller resigned. No one knows yet. If Petey starts to find his grove we might see him dealt. One thing we know for sure is they will need to restructure their cap. They need some flexibility to continue building this club.

Miller will almost certainly be getting a 6-8 year $8m (contender-low tax team) to $9.5 (less competitive and/or higher tax) deal. At 30 years old. 

 

Hell be going to a team with players already in/nearing the end of, their prime, that's ready to win NOW (and hence willing to sacrifice future players and cap flexibility to do so).

 

But no, he won't be a rental. Both sides will likely look to extend him after his 1.5 seasons left, are up.

Edited January 25, 2022 by aGENT

[Gawdzukes]

48 minutes ago, CJ44 said:

Yep, I mean even a Canadian market...if you know you can't retain someone or re-sign them AND they have value you have to move them. You can't tell me nobody would have been interested in Tanev and Markstrom before or at the deadline?? Even for picks only, you simply cannot get nothing in return.  At a certain point during Marky's last season here they certainly would have made the decision that Demko was the guy moving forward? I can't imagine they waited until the off season to figure that out knowing Markstrom was on his last year. Markstrom was a hot commodity once he hit the market, that tells me there should have been some trade partners for him. My guess is Benning and the boys were stubborn on the return and team's didn't bite. A team with a thin prospect pool and lack of picks shouldn't of played their cards that way, picks and prospects are exactly what we needed. 

 

For me, we have one the the highest paid blue lines in the league and not near the top in performance. The re-tooling needs to start back there. We are second last in the league in goals from a defenseman but are top 5 in blue line spending. Demko deserves better. Something HAS to be done with Petey, he's looking better lately but still a far cry...I still see Bo as the captain for awhile, Miller will likely be moved but our back end and prospect pool needs immediate attention. 

I couldn't agree more. Moving Miller and possibly Boeser frees up 16 million in future cap and replenishes us with youth that can hopefully step up now or at least in 2-4 years when our prime competition window will be open. That's why we need someone with strong fortitude making the calls, hopefully that's JR. There is that report/tweet out there implying they've spoken to Miller and are actively shopping him. Hopefully for once in the past 20 years we can pull off a move to push towards elite as compared to yearly wildcard contender. We would have a had a 2000 first and second in the pipeline at the very least for Tanev and Marky.

 

It's funny how it almost seems like the fans run the team sometimes in Vancouver. Every player is a fan favorite and untradeable yet we see multiple other teams reshape their future for the better every year. Remember everyone panicking because we left Gaunce exposed?  The thing with Miller is his value has risen dramatically in the last 2 months as he's demonstrated everything a leader and elite clutch player should ... with a year left on a peanuts contract. That's Gold!

 

The one problem with keeping Miller as compared to someone else is it leaves us with a fairly similar team still missing key parts to be a perennial contender.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[kanucks25]

28 minutes ago, CJ44 said:

Yep, I mean even a Canadian market...if you know you can't retain someone or re-sign them AND they have value you have to move them. You can't tell me nobody would have been interested in Tanev and Markstrom before or at the deadline?? Even for picks only, you simply cannot get nothing in return.  At a certain point during Marky's last season here they certainly would have made the decision that Demko was the guy moving forward? I can't imagine they waited until the off season to figure that out knowing Markstrom was on his last year. Markstrom was a hot commodity once he hit the market, that tells me there should have been some trade partners for him. My guess is Benning and the boys were stubborn on the return and team's didn't bite. A team with a thin prospect pool and lack of picks shouldn't of played their cards that way, picks and prospects are exactly what we needed. 

 

9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

That team has a legit chance (and showed it) to get a couple rounds of valuable playoff experience. A little "mini window" with some quality vets, and the young core on ELC and bridge deals. Selling your starter and one of your best D at the TDL was never happening, under any management there IMO.

Bigger issue was bungling the cap so bad that you didn't have space to retain valuable roster players before you were even in the "legit competing" portion of the cycle.

 

There's no doubt that both the market and the players themselves were upset about step back it caused. I imagine the players will feel some deja vu if Miller is shipped out, but they probably also expect some changes considering the management overhaul.

 

This would be another step back, which sucks, but there's no quick fix.

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I couldn't agree more. Moving Miller and possibly Boeser frees up 16 million in future cap and replenishes us with youth that can hopefully step up now or at least in 2-4 years when our prime competition window will be open. That's why we need someone with strong fortitude making the calls, hopefully that's JR. There is that report/tweet out there implying they've spoken to Miller and are actively shopping him. Hopefully for once in the past 20 years we can pull off a move to push towards elite as compared to yearly wildcard contender. We would have a had a 2000 first and second in the pipeline at the very least for Tanev and Marky.

 

It's funny how it almost seems like the fans run the team sometimes in Vancouver. Every player is a fan favorite and untradeable yet we see multiple other teams reshape their future for the better every year. Remember everyone panicking because we left Gaunce exposed?  The thing with Miller is his value has risen dramatically in the last 2 months as he's demonstrated everything a leader and elite clutch player should ... with a year left on a peanuts contract. That's Gold!

this is the chance for a franchise shifting move, let's hope the seize it

[appleboy]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Miller will almost certainly be getting a 6-8 year $8m (contender-low tax team) to $9.5 (less competitive and/or higher tax) deal. At 30 years old. 

 

Hell be going to a team with players already in/nearing the end of, their prime, that's ready to win NOW.

 

But no, he won't be a rental. Both sides will likely look to extend him after his 1.5 seasons left, are up.

Teams that are "ready to win now" and have " players in or nearing the end of their prime" will struggle to fit in 8 to 9 mil. Lots of rumors about the Rangers and they are looking for a veteran to lead. 

I guess we will see. Either way Miller should bring a big return or they will be resigning him. Something needs to give and I can't wait to see what direction they go.

 

If I was the GM I would try to lock down Miller and Bo. Move Petey and Boeser.

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Teams that are "ready to win now" and have " players in or nearing the end of their prime" will struggle to fit in 8 to 9 mil. Lots of rumors about the Rangers and they are looking for a veteran to lead. 

I guess we will see. Either way Miller should bring a big return or they will be resigning him. Something needs to give and I can't wait to see what direction they go.

 

If I was the GM I would try to lock down Miller and Bo. Move Petey and Boeser.

A veteran to lead those "kids" Trouba, Kreider, Panarin, Zib etc?

 

Rangers have cap space and they can either let Strome walk or move someone else (Kreider?) to retain Miller. A team looking to win, with a need for a gritty top 6 C, will find space to keep him.

[Harold Drunken]

56 minutes ago, aGENT said:

That team has a legit chance (and showed it) to get a couple rounds of valuable playoff experience. A little "mini window" with some quality vets, and the young core on ELC and bridge deals. Selling your starter and one of your best D at the TDL was never happening, under any management there IMO.

That team was only 9 games above .500 and I think a consensus statement would be they significantly over achieved that season and technically didn't even make the playoffs if it weren't for a qualifying round.  At the deadline, it was most definitely not obvious they were a playoff team year let alone a "contender". Nobody, I repeat nobody labeled this team a contender that year at all and this team winning a playoff round was a complete surprise especially against the defending champions. So my point, at the deadline this team could have easily been a seller. I understand if there's a chance the team could make the playoffs then that's puts a bit of a hold on selling players but I digress. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by CJ44

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Teams that are "ready to win now" and have " players in or nearing the end of their prime" will struggle to fit in 8 to 9 mil. Lots of rumors about the Rangers and they are looking for a veteran to lead. 

I guess we will see. Either way Miller should bring a big return or they will be resigning him. Something needs to give and I can't wait to see what direction they go.

 

If I was the GM I would try to lock down Miller and Bo. Move Petey and Boeser.

most of the top teams have a lot of cap room for the next couple of years and it wouldn't take much to find some room.  Miller would likely be open to a good deal for a contending team with a low tax rate too

[Harold Drunken]

22 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

 

Bigger issue was bungling the cap so bad that you didn't have space to retain valuable roster players before you were even in the "legit competing" portion of the cycle.

 

There's no doubt that both the market and the players themselves were upset about step back it caused. I imagine the players will feel some deja vu if Miller is shipped out, but they probably also expect some changes considering the management overhaul.

 

This would be another step back, which sucks, but there's no quick fix.

I agree, but the "legit contenders" title he's making is kind of crazy. Absolutely nobody was calling or labelling this team contenders that year. They squeaked into the qualifying round and weren't expected to win any rounds. Hence why people were so pleasantly surprised and it was such a big story we did. We over achieved, and yes it was good experience but by no means expected or predicted.

[Westcoastcanucks777]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

haha. Gotta ask. If you don't ask, then you don't know. Sometimes GM's can be so desperate that they're so dumb. 

 

Get them liquored up somehow and then wheel and deallll ! BOOM

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, CJ44 said:

That team was only 9 games above .500 and I think a consensus statement would be they significantly over achieved that season and technically didn't even make the playoffs if it weren't for a qualifying round.  At the deadline, it was most definitely not obvious they were a playoff team year let alone a "contender". Nobody, I repeat nobody labeled this team a contender that year at all and this team winning a playoff round was a complete surprises. So my point, at the deadline this team could have easily been a seller. I understand if there's a chance the team could make the playoffs then that's puts a bit of a hold on selling players but I digress. 

That's what I mean by Canadian and Canuck fanbase/management. As much as your theory and hindsight is correct we were too attached to our current situation at the time. Which as you point out wasn't great in reality. I see your point but I also agree with @aGENT we were never realistically shopping these guys in the first place. We were consumed with rookies Petey, Boes, Hughes, and the teams hot start most people thought we were one or two moves away. Tofolli as am example. It would have been an extremely controversial move.

 

I'm really hoping the current circumstances, up and down season, and unclear future make it obvious that we're building for the future in this case.

[Harold Drunken]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

That's what I mean by Canadian and Canuck fanbase/management. As much as your theory and hindsight is correct we were too attached to our current situation at the time. Which as you point out wasn't great in reality. I see your point but I also agree with @aGENT we were never realistically shopping these guys in the first place. We were consumed with rookies Petey, Boes, Hughes, and the teams hot start most people thought we were one or two moves away. Tofolli as am example. It would have been an extremely controversial move.

 

I'm really hoping the current circumstances, up and down season, and unclear future make it obvious that we're building for the future in this case.

Yeah for sure, I'm sure management was hoping and holding out to push and make the playoffs and all....but saying we were a labeled contender is beyond a stretch.

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, CJ44 said:

That team was only 9 games above .500 and I think a consensus statement would be they significantly over achieved that season and technically didn't even make the playoffs if it weren't for a qualifying round.  At the deadline, it was most definitely not obvious they were a playoff team year let alone a "contender". Nobody, I repeat nobody labeled this team a contender that year at all and this team winning a playoff round was a complete surprise especially against the defending champions. So my point, at the deadline this team could have easily been a seller. I understand if there's a chance the team could make the playoffs then that's puts a bit of a hold on selling players but I digress. 

 

10 minutes ago, CJ44 said:

I agree, but the "legit contenders" title he's making is kind of crazy. Absolutely nobody was calling or labelling this team contenders that year. They squeaked into the qualifying round and weren't expected to win any rounds. Hence why people were so pleasantly surprised and it was such a big story we did. We over achieved, and yes it was good experience but by no means expected or predicted.

Nowhere in there did I say the word contender. You're not going to win any arguments with straw men.

 

This year, we're both less likely to make the playoffs, and in a different situation where that little mini window has closed and it's time to reload for the young core's window. The one where they're the main fixtures and not the complimentary kids on ELC's/bridge deals.