[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, J-23 said:

If we are in a Playoff race next season, I doubt they will trade Miller at the TDL.

 

Get it resolved this off-season, move him or extend him. 

This is it exactly.  Our owner doesn’t want any steps back.  Trading Miller at the 2023 TDL will definitely cause a serious step back for the rest of that season.  Trading Miller before the season starts can return players who will help prevent a step back. Clearly our owner’s vision is better served with an off season Miller Trade than a TDL one.  If we have Miller during this season then I do t think we trade him.  He walks, just like Goudreau did. 

[Smashian Kassian]

Just now, Alflives said:

I do t think so.  IMHAO our owner sets the direction/vision, and management tries their best to follow that direction.  The direction is to try a keep improving and win a Cup.  JR/Allvin have full autonomy to accomplish that directive from the owner, when it comes to how to do it.  Just so long as the club continues to make steps forward.  No stepping back.  It’s why we signed Mikheyev.  It’s why Benning signed Little Things.  Always try to get better while changing pieces.  

Miller is going to get traded, I hope, by the 2023 TDL.  But there is our owner’s vision.  

 

We signed Mikheyev because they view him as secondary piece this core needs to succeed. Not because they are going all out on anything like Vegas, or Benning did.

 

If they had it their way they'd have moved Pearson for a good asset(s), then Mikheyev would've been a more clear upgrade/replacement.

 

Its like when a roommate has his GF move in. There's things in the house she wants differently, new things she's willing to buy to improve the house, and she'll bring them in prior to you getting rid of your old stuff.  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, ilduce39 said:

We started the year like 4-26 until Green got fired. That’s why we missed the playoffs.  

We were 8-15 (I think) when BB took over.  

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

JR says 50% of our wins were because of Demko stealing the games.  So, really we are a bottom of the league team.  

That was last season.  This year, we have some good additions to the team and the young players have another

NHL season under their belt.  They grew into a team during the playoff run and all of them know what they

need to do during their offseason training.  Management still have to build up the d, but there is plenty of

time to do that before the season begins.  I'm not expecting them to do far into the p/os, but I think they will

get to a 5th or 6th game in round 1.

[Smashian Kassian]

5 minutes ago, rekker said:

Agreed. I want assets for JT. But if no one offers up anything of fair value. Ffmm. Let's keep the band together and get to the post season. It gutted me watching the other teams fans this post season. I want that again. 

 

I don't think you can let JT walk for nothing, even if we are in a playoff spot, but I appreciate the sentiment. This team should've been in the playoffs last season & should definitely be this year. We are ready to take that step.

 

I want JT either re-signed a deal that makes sense for our window long-term, or else move him & get value that helps set us up long term.

 

Marino & 1st for example makes sense to me, young T4 RHD signed at a good number. Taking the best B- prospect & 1st combo we can get doesn't, atleast right now.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

We signed Mikheyev because they view him as secondary piece this core needs to succeed. Not because they are going all out on anything like Vegas, or Benning did.

 

If they had it their way they'd have moved Pearson for a good asset(s), then Mikheyev would've been a more clear upgrade/replacement.

 

Its like when a roommate has his GF move in. There's things in the house she wants differently, new things she's willing to buy to improve the house, and she'll bring them in prior to you getting rid of your old stuff.  

I think we will get to see the level of our owner’s influence on the direction/vision of the club if Miller is still on the team come the 2023 TDL.  If he is traded at that time, then our owner is allowing JR/Allvin to take a step back.  IMHAO though, Miller will not get traded at that point.  

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

That was last season.  This year, we have some good additions to the team and the young players have another

NHL season under their belt.  They grew into a team during the playoff run and all of them know what they

need to do during their offseason training.  Management still have to build up the d, but there is plenty of

time to do that before the season begins.  I'm not expecting them to do far into the p/os, but I think they will

get to a 5th or 6th game in round 1.

So if we trade Miller now will we still get to the playoffs?  Depends on the return, but I think we can.  If we trade Miller st the 2023 TDL would we still make the playoffs?  I do t think so because the return would be futures, and not help us like the return would trading him now.  

[Smashian Kassian]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think we will get to see the level of our owner’s influence on the direction/vision of the club if Miller is still on the team come the 2023 TDL.  If he is traded at that time, then our owner is allowing JR/Allvin to take a step back.  IMHAO though, Miller will not get traded at that point.  

 

I wouldn't view it as a "step back" just recovering assets. I agree its going to be interesting.

 

I think they'll have complete autonomy to trade Miller at that point if they want too, but given the past it's a valid concern. We'll see how it plays out. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I wouldn't view it as a "step back" just recovering assets. I agree its going to be interesting.

 

I think they'll have complete autonomy to trade Miller at that point if they want too, but given the past it's a valid concern. We'll see how it plays out. 

Irfan Gaffar on 650 said the club is trying to extend Miller.  Hmmm.  How in heck do we fit in a 9 mil cap hit for Miller and 7 for Bo in the 2023/2024 season and keep Kuzmenko, Pods, Hogs, and others who will be needing new contracts?  

This is one fantastic soap opera!  

[higgyfan]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

So if we trade Miller now will we still get to the playoffs?  Depends on the return, but I think we can.  If we trade Miller st the 2023 TDL would we still make the playoffs?  I do t think so because the return would be futures, and not help us like the return would trading him now.  

Good questions Alf.  Only time will tell, I guess.

[D.B Cooper]

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

Hindsight is always a benefit.

There is no hindsight in my post.  
If anything, I’m focusing on the past. 

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

Maybe add into the mix that they couldn’t discuss extension with JTM until this offseason, so essentially had to wait to determine that.

Last year would have been 2 playoff runs. Extension wasnt a problem then, and now id go the rental route. It opens it up to any playoff team would be interested  

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

 

like I said in my previous post, ppl can crap all over the club for wanting to try a playoff run. But as a fan, that’s what I want to see.
 

I’ve been a life long fan. I’m 36 now.  I want to see a run as well.  
BUT 

Everyone and their dog knew that a run was a pipe dream, and if they somehow squeezed in, they’d be out in round 1

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

 

 

I want the young leaders to get every chance at a taste of the postseason that they can get because it invariably will be beneficial when this club finally becomes a regular playoff participant. 

Agreed, but the right moves means that window stays open longer and with more success. 

 

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

 

it’s funny, everybody plans/expects for 2-3 years time when our draft picks or prospects will come in to their own or that the future always has more opportunity than the now. It’s not the case. 
 

we have some amazing players under contracts, a coach with a winning pedigree, and youth who have already taken on the mantle of leadership and excelled.  With a new voice they went from swirling around the toilet bowl to a climbing back into a wildcard spot  while competing against teams who never faced the same deficit to rebound from. 
 

why do people continue to discount the success of all of this? “Oh, we’re mired in mediocrity” No we aren’t. We were under Green. This is a different team with him deposed and context matters, especially when it’s recent.

 

And to answer all of this,   
the team isnt good enough.  The rebuild isn’t done. Resigning aging vets to huge contracts isn’t the right move.  
Did you watch the playoffs?  
Do you truly think we can compete with the Avs?    Because not even Tampa could.  

[rekker]

14 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I don't think you can let JT walk for nothing, even if we are in a playoff spot, but I appreciate the sentiment. This team should've been in the playoffs last season & should definitely be this year. We are ready to take that step.

 

I want JT either re-signed a deal that makes sense for our window long-term, or else move him & get value that helps set us up long term.

 

Marino & 1st for example makes sense to me, young T4 RHD signed at a good number. Taking the best B- prospect & 1st combo we can get doesn't, atleast right now.

I agree on JT's value. A first and a good, young player seems fair. Don't get me wrong, I want assets for JT, that's my preference. But not if it's lowball city. I see no hope of re-signing him, just my feeling. 

[aliboy]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Irfan Gaffar on 650 said the club is trying to extend Miller.  Hmmm.  How in heck do we fit in a 9 mil cap hit for Miller and 7 for Bo in the 2023/2024 season and keep Kuzmenko, Pods, Hogs, and others who will be needing new contracts?  

This is one fantastic soap opera!  

We are just going to have to make it work Alf, keep in mind there's a number of players who won't still be here, Hogs might be one, then Pearson, Dickenson, etc. We need to get that supply of good young players established in our development system. 

[D.B Cooper]

1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I don't think it had anything to do with "going for it" last season, they've preferred to sign Miller the entire time.

I’m sure they would, but it sure doesn’t sound like he has given them any indication he wants to stay. 

 

1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

And yes JR's record is hit & miss, but Allvin is running the show. Its Patrik's vision, JR is the stamp of approval.

Pat has never been a GM before. That doesn’t make me any more comfortable than JR and his run and gun style trading.  

1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

My thought is something around Marino & a 1st makes alot of sense.

We need a youngish RHD & he's on a good contract. The 1st is a great asset to stock in the cupboard.

Then you negotiate the best tertiary parts you can, if any. 

Fair enough and I agree. 
This more reasonable I’d think.  Adding a recently picked 1st round dman on top of that, which is going to be tough to get already is silly. 

[4petesake]

59 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I disagree completely. If it was Frankie's vision JR would've never signed on.

 

The pattern with ownership IMO is they step aside early on in the new GM's tenure, then later on if things go off the rails start to get progressively more involved.

 

I don't think Frankie was telling Gillis what to do until he was asked to retain money on Luongo, then after he had to go to Lu's house to tell him he was still a Canuck he became much more involved. 

 

 

JR ain’t nobody’s stooge. With his accomplishments at his age he didn’t sign on to take orders from a meddling owner.

[RWJC]

16 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

There is no hindsight in my post.  
If anything, I’m focusing on the past. 

Last year would have been 2 playoff runs. Extension wasnt a problem then, and now id go the rental route. It opens it up to any playoff team would be interested  

I’ve been a life long fan. I’m 36 now.  I want to see a run as well.  
BUT 

Everyone and their dog knew that a run was a pipe dream, and if they somehow squeezed in, they’d be out in round 1

Agreed, but the right moves means that window stays open longer and with more success. 

 

And to answer all of this,   
the team isnt good enough.  The rebuild isn’t done. Resigning aging vets to huge contracts isn’t the right move.  
Did you watch the playoffs?  
Do you truly think we can compete with the Avs?    Because not even Tampa could.  

No one could compete with the Avs yet I can name quite a few other teams that at least tried, for whatever reasons.

 

and with all due respect, what better way is there to know what you have as a club than to compete in the most difficult situation against arguably the best competition? 
that’s how players/teams learn and evolve - through the process of osmosis in rubbing shoulders with the best.

 

Further, as Alf will attest to, owners like money.  so playoff revenue will always be a driver. 
 

and players at the pro level want to compete. It’s innate. You deny them that opportunity and they will seek it out elsewhere. 

 

i don’t peg you as the “roll over and die” type DB, and I appreciate what you’re saying. I’m lifelong as well. 

but as fans, our desires for the club are superseded by the reality of it being a business, and in that capacity, not all decisions make sense in the framework of it being a simple pasttime spectator sport. 

Edited July 15, 2022 by RWJC

[Smashian Kassian]

30 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Irfan Gaffar on 650 said the club is trying to extend Miller.  Hmmm.  How in heck do we fit in a 9 mil cap hit for Miller and 7 for Bo in the 2023/2024 season and keep Kuzmenko, Pods, Hogs, and others who will be needing new contracts?  

This is one fantastic soap opera!  

 

I agree they want to keep Miller. I think they've originally come in at the high 7's, and would probably not want to go higher than 8.5 on 5-6 years. 

 

It'll be interesting to hear the #'s on Bo. Landeskog took 7, RNH took much less, but Hertl got 8.1 & Hayes got 7. I think 6.5 would be a nice hometown discount, we'll see though. 

[Smashian Kassian]

19 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

I’m sure they would, but it sure doesn’t sound like he has given them any indication he wants to stay. 

 

I don't think he's against staying here, it just seems like he wants to max out on his value.

 

19 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

 

Pat has never been a GM before. That doesn’t make me any more comfortable than JR and his run and gun style trading.  

I'm more comfortable with this group than the last.

 

What gives me some comfort is this group has experience of what it takes, they know what we have & what needs to be added. How that's executed on the other-hand, we'll see. They could lose my confidence but right now I'm giving them the benefit. 

[wai_lai416]

8 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I agree they want to keep Miller. I think they've originally come in at the high 7's, and would probably not want to go higher than 8.5 on 5-6 years. 

 

It'll be interesting to hear the #'s on Bo. Landeskog took 7, RNH took much less, but Hertl got 8.1 & Hayes got 7. I think 6.5 would be a nice hometown discount, we'll see though. 

seeing how little johnny got 9.75 on a 7 year deal.. i honestly see Miller asking for at least 9mil minimum 6 year deal.. they are both the same age.. if johnny can get 9.75 at 7? Miller definitely can get 9mil x 6 a year later or even 8.25-8.5x7

[Smashian Kassian]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

seeing how little johnny got 9.75 on a 7 year deal.. i honestly see Miller asking for at least 9mil minimum 6 year deal.. they are both the same age.. if johnny can get 9.75 at 7? Miller definitely can get 9mil x 6 a year later or even 8.25-8.5x7

 

Gaudreau was 4th in Hart Voting, 115 points, a Franchise player. Miller isn't that.