BPA Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Pears said: Or, like I was saying, I don’t want other teams garbage for one of our best players who just so happened to finish 9th in overall scoring. It’s like what certain Canucks fans do in the proposals section only it’s flipped this time. I’m glad you aren’t making any business decisions for this team. It’s called asset management. Canuck fans want Miller to be re-signed on a sensible deal. But so far, Canucks and Miller seem far apart. So then it becomes, keep Miller and try to work on a deal throughout the season with a chance he would walk away as a UFA? Or make a trade for youth, speed, cap space, etc to compliment the young core (something JR mentioned before). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: I get what you're saying Jester but in sports I've found it far more prudent in my experience to bet conservatively when estimating from one year to the next. It's no slight against the Canucks but I would currently rate only Colorado St. Louis Vegas as playoff guarantees assuming no big injuries. The rest are all up for grabs and depend on a lot of factors imo. To be honest I think the Canucks have a pretty decent shot. Minny could regress although they were real good team last year. Who knows how Calgary will rebound. Still a good (Sutter) team. Nashville and LA look stronger this year and there is always an upstart possibility from Anaheim, SJ, Winnipeg. Even out East the top 8 look set but I look forward to seeing another team break in there. Every year teams completely surprise. Guarantees are tough to make in the West. Please try to not equate a prediction with a guarantee, as it's merely a prediction based on paper and how things played out last year. Minny will almost certainly regress after losing Fiala, and same with Dallas (terrible team) and Winnipeg (tire fire); and even possibly Nashville (didn't improve much this offseason) and Vegas (Patches go poof!). As it stands right now, I see the following: Oilers Flames Canucks Kings Golden Knights Yada Yada Yada As I said above, the Nucks under Bruce had great playoff calibre PP and 5v5 but our PK sucked. We have since improved our speed, PP, and PK pretty drastically compared to last year, and then you add in a full year under Bruce and his systems, and we're arguably the most improved team in the West, to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, BPA said: It’s called asset management. Canuck fans want Miller to be re-signed on a sensible deal. But so far, Canucks and Miller seem far apart. So then it becomes, keep Miller and try to work on a deal throughout the season with a chance he would walk away as a UFA? Or make a trade for youth, speed, cap space, etc to compliment the young core (something JR mentioned before). Alright so ask yourself, if any of these teams made their players who finished above or below Miller available for trade, what would they ask for them? I can guarantee you they’d want more than a couple of question marks and a late first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, Wanless said: We saw it last season, if they had Bruce the full season they would have been challenging for second place. So i dont know why you think its homerism. Also, did you forget about the coaching change?? The canucks first 30 games were historically bad. All they needed was what 5 more wins to make it to the playoffs Yes you're welcome to view it like that but you have to admit it's a small sample size with a couple asterisks by it. I would call it an informed but risky conclusion. I usually judge on what actually happened. For me this group of players missed the playoffs again and they have to prove they can put together an 82 game run against some very good teams. We'll see what they do. I hope it's as easy and simple as you guys make it sound. I'll gladly eat my words on this one when we win the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Pears said: Alright so ask yourself, if any of these teams made their players who finished above or below Miller available for trade, what would they ask for them? I can guarantee you they’d want more than a couple of question marks and a late first. I get it. I don’t want garbage return either. That’s probably why Miller hasn’t been traded yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, mll said: Kekaleinen says otherwise. He just explained that there's very limited cap space around the league and it's dwindling fast. He says it would have been far too risky for them to wait to trade Bjorkstrand - ie if they waited longer they would be at risk of having to pay to off-load cap. Can't see Vancouver able to move Garland this off-season + he has term and the cap is expected to be just as tight next season. Well, if it does come to that, then they would have to trade Miller at TDL. The return should be a good prospect and pick. I can't the Nucks signing him if the $ and term are anywhere near what folks have been expecting. Not so sure about Garland. There are 2 or 3 teams that lack a top6 RW. Maybe with Vancouver taking back a similar contract with a player that fits the team need list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, BPA said: I get it. I don’t want garbage return either. That’s probably why Miller hasn’t been traded yet. Exactly. Front office knows how valuable Miller is to this team, and they aren’t gonna trade him for some subpar return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Pears said: Alright so ask yourself, if any of these teams made their players who finished above or below Miller available for trade, what would they ask for them? I can guarantee you they’d want more than a couple of question marks and a late first. What I get from this is how in the hell did Roman Josi not get awarded the Norris? Especially considering the team he plays for and carried for the season. Heck, Josi should have been the Hart winner! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Pears said: Exactly. Front office knows how valuable Miller is to this team, and they aren’t gonna trade him for some subpar return. Maybe keeping Miller and running: Petey, Miller, Bo as our top three centres for the Demko/Hughes contracts is our best move? Edited July 25, 2022 by Alflives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: Yes you're welcome to view it like that but you have to admit it's a small sample size with a couple asterisks by it. I would call it an informed but risky conclusion. I usually judge on what actually happened. For me this group of players missed the playoffs again and they have to prove they can put together an 82 game run against some very good teams. We'll see what they do. I hope it's as easy and simple as you guys make it sound. I'll gladly eat my words on this one when we win the division. So 50+ games is a small sample size to judge the team but the first 25-30 games of the season is enough for you to base your hesitant opinion on? It's not like they finished the last 20 games the way they did. They did it for the majority of the season with a lineup that doesn't even compare to what it is now. Then you throw in a healthy Petey, a mentally healthy Brock, Kuzy, Mikehyev, Lazar, PK, PP, speed, grit, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Pears said: Exactly. Front office knows how valuable Miller is to this team, and they aren’t gonna trade him for some subpar return. Return would have to be a young potential star (like Newhook, Schneider, Mercer) + 1st (probably in the mid-late 20 pick) and a young player (preferably in a position of need like C or D) on a good cap hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Please try to not equate a prediction with a guarantee, as it's merely a prediction based on paper and how things played out last year. Minny will almost certainly regress after losing Fiala, and same with Dallas (terrible team) and Winnipeg (tire fire); and even possibly Nashville (didn't improve much this offseason) and Vegas (Patches go poof!). As it stands right now, I see the following: Oilers Flames Canucks Kings Golden Knights Yada Yada Yada As I said above, the Nucks under Bruce had great playoff calibre PP and 5v5 but our PK sucked. We have since improved our speed, PP, and PK pretty drastically compared to last year, and then you add in a full year under Bruce and his systems, and we're arguably the most improved team in the West, to date. lol we're arguing semantics I guess "I think at this point it would be shocking if the Canucks don't make the playoffs" was the original post. I don't know I guess it's not a guarantee exactly but I personally wouldn't be shocked if we missed the playoffs. I find the NHL is a tough league. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Maybe keeping Miller and running: Petey, Miller, Bo as our top three centres for the Demko/Hughes contracts is our best move? Yep. You’d be pretty hard pressed to find a better top 3 centers than ours in that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said: lol we're arguing semantics I guess "I think at this point it would be shocking if the Canucks don't make the playoffs" was the original post. I don't know I guess it's not a guarantee exactly but I personally wouldn't be shocked if we missed the playoffs. I find the NHL is a tough league. That is all. Here's the thing: if they pick up where they left off, it would be shocking, with all of the points mentioned, if they missed the playoffs. We were so close last year after a historically bad 25 games to start the season and team that was much, much worse on paper. That would be pretty darn shocking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, BPA said: Return would have to be a young potential star (like Newhook, Schneider, Mercer) + 1st (probably in the mid-late 20 pick) and a young player (preferably in a position of need like C or D) on a good cap hit. Yeah. Reports from a couple of weeks ago were the return for Miller would be north of what Fiala got Minnesota, which was a top RD prospect and a 1st. If the Rangers don’t want to part with Schneider then so be it, but if it’s the Avs I’m looking at Newhook++. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Pears said: Yep. You’d be pretty hard pressed to find a better top 3 centers than ours in that scenario. They just need to reach a compromise. $7M x 8yrs. Get it done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, BPA said: They just need to reach a compromise. $7M x 8yrs. Get it done. Hopefully. I’d do up to $8.5m if that gets it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottydzik Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Pears said: Yeah. Reports from a couple of weeks ago were the return for Miller would be north of what Fiala got Minnesota, which was a top RD prospect and a 1st. If the Rangers don’t want to part with Schneider then so be it, but if it’s the Avs I’m looking at Newhook++. Im Glad jt and Alvin know the value of there player. The ask should Be Jt Miller Pearson 2023 3rd To Devils Sverson Holtz 2023 1st top 10 protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Scottydzik said: Im Glad jt and Alvin know the value of there player. The ask should Be Jt Miller Pearson 2023 3rd To Devils Sverson Holtz 2023 1st top 10 protected. That’s quite the increase in price from your suggestion of Petry/Anderson/3rd from a few weeks ago… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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