[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Primal Optimist]

On 11/9/2022 at 1:42 PM, HKSR said:

 

Management will likely let this play out until the TDL and if he's still on fire, they'll move him for a big haul.  If he's cooled off, they could probably negotiate an extension in the $7.xx range.

I feel like the club has leverage here, as you note: Bo can be the best player in Arizona for beaucoup cash, or he can be top line player with other amazing players for 8 or less with the Canucks. Hate that it comes to that though, I would like him to stay but he thinks he is Jerome Iginla and he isn't 8 by 8 would be great or 3 by 7.5 and renegotiate it later for nine, the players need to work a bit with the club imo. I don't dislike Bo at all, but I wouldn't cry if he leaves and the nucks get a haul back.

[wai_lai416]

lol all these talk about canucks getting a hual back fo bo.. u mean like the haul for Miller? a low 1st rounder 3c and some B prospect? is that the definition of a haul? whatever was the offer last year for Miller will pretty much be the offer this year for Horvat. you ain't getting a haul for horvat if it isn't a sign and trade and likely it wouldn't be. any trade involving horvat would not come into play for the canucks prolly for the next 3-5 years. so why did we sign miller again?

[DrJockitch]

2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol all these talk about canucks getting a hual back fo bo.. u mean like the haul for Miller? a low 1st rounder 3c and some B prospect? is that the definition of a haul? whatever was the offer last year for Miller will pretty much be the offer this year for Horvat. you ain't getting a haul for horvat if it isn't a sign and trade and likely it wouldn't be. any trade involving horvat would not come into play for the canucks prolly for the next 3-5 years. so why did we sign miller again?

We shouldn’t have signed him.  That was a mistake but the mistake was made during the season before 
‘Didn’t like that supposed NYR deal at the time but when see that the D in that deal got a first rounder in trade, 2 first rounders and a young 3C is a decent return for expiring contract. 

[DrJockitch]

15 minutes ago, Primal Optimist said:

I feel like the club has leverage here, as you note: Bo can be the best player in Arizona for beaucoup cash, or he can be top line player with other amazing players for 8 or less with the Canucks. Hate that it comes to that though, I would like him to stay but he thinks he is Jerome Iginla and he isn't 8 by 8 would be great or 3 by 7.5 and renegotiate it later for nine, the players need to work a bit with the club imo. I don't dislike Bo at all, but I wouldn't cry if he leaves and the nucks get a haul back.

Could also argue that they have less tax, better weather and will be in a brand new arena soon as well as have a lot more quality youth coming than Vancouver as have been through tear down rebuild and building up a lot of high picks. 
‘May also see Bo playing next to Matthews in that case. 
No doubt Arizona will screw it all up and wouldn’t be willing to spend the money on Bo until in new building but don’t discount that Arizona may actually have some appeal soon. 

[wai_lai416]

4 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

We shouldn’t have signed him.  That was a mistake but the mistake was made during the season before 
‘Didn’t like that supposed NYR deal at the time but when see that the D in that deal got a first rounder in trade, 2 first rounders and a young 3C is a decent return for expiring contract. 

and we likely won't see something like that for horvat.. chances are JR is going to be asking for the moon and other teams will already settle for other players for less and we end up with whatevers left on the table.. being a canuck that's the most canuck like scenario

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

and we likely won't see something like that for horvat.. chances are JR is going to be asking for the moon and other teams will already settle for other players for less and we end up with whatevers left on the table.. being a canuck that's the most canuck like scenario

Play well down the stretch

Still be out of a playoff spot but close

Hear how all avenues are being explored

17 rumours about moving him

11 about signing him

TDL will pass

Signing rumours will go in to overdrive

Miss the playoffs, draft 12th 

Horvat walks for nothing

Hear how "we tried to get something done at the TDL but nobody was paying" and "We extended what we thought was a fair offer, they wanted to test the market"

Go in to off season hearing promises about change, big things happening; seeing good things from prospects that will never be allowed to play

Rinse and repeat to start 2023/2024

 

Just sayin

[wai_lai416]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Play well down the stretch

Still be out of a playoff spot but close

Hear how all avenues are being explored

17 rumours about moving him

11 about signing him

TDL will pass

Signing rumours will go in to overdrive

Miss the playoffs, draft 12th 

Horvat walks for nothing

Hear how "we tried to get something done at the TDL but nobody was paying" and "We extended what we thought was a fair offer, they wanted to test the market"

Go in to off season hearing promises about change, big things happening; seeing good things from prospects that will never be allowed to play

Rinse and repeat to start 2023/2024

 

Just sayin

very canuck like and we enter next season with EP as the only center option and we are back to a 1 line team again. EP Miller mihkahev or kuzmenko if he's still around? and then it'll be xxx xxx garland lol.. that's assuming boeser is traded too.. i dont see how we can sell EP on the future to make him wanna sign long term rather than his QO which prolly forces our hand to trade him before the draft next season.. good time to be a canucks fan so many ways to see this team blow up

[AnthonyG]

41 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

We were talking about guys that had lower faceoff percentages overall and what happens if they don't win enough of them.  Petey has a net positive in terms of takeaways vs giveaways.  Guys like Malkin, and Barzal in particular have faceoff percentages just as bad as Petey, but they give the puck away far more than Petey. 

 

Not sure why it matters if they are on a PP or not either?  But if we're looking only 5v5:

 

Petey:  17 Takeaways, 8 Giveaways, Net Positive of 9

Malkin: 26 Takeaways, 23 Giveaways, Net Positive of 3

Barzal:  20 Takeaways, 17 Giveaways, Net Positive of 3

 

Bottomline is Petey is more than capable as a 1C.  He finds ways of getting the puck back when he does lose a draw. 

 

Oh, why are you bringing up Draisatl, McDavid, and in particular Karlsson and Pastrnak into the conversation?  Yes, they're >Pettersson... so... that makes Petey NOT a 1C?  Not sure the logic here... especially since Karlsson is a defenceman and Pastrnak is a winger...

Lmao including PP numbers is ridiculous because you already have a man advantage. Derp.
 

 

Pettersson has 1 way of finding a way of getting the puck back and it works once game. But what he cant do is CONTAIN A PLAYER. Jesus christ. You need to be strong to be effective. Yes sure he is crafty, but it only works every so often. Whereas if the body is there and you are struggling to steal the puck. PIN THE FVCKING BODY. MUSCLE YOUR WAY IN AND TAKE CONTROL. This is a big part of playing C. He cant help clear the front of the net, will lose more battles in the corner than he will steal pucks. Its all leading to extended zone time for the opposition.

 

 

Go find me a stat that shows the things that Barzal and Malkin can do that lead to possession that Pettersson cant do. Like tie a guy up. Pin someone against the boards and keep them in place. There are things stats cannot track that are highly effective that Pettersson just strong enough or big enough to do.

 

You brought up giveaways lmfao. Im showing that the best players in the league have more giveaways and its highlighting guys who all possess the puck a lot. More possession=more chance of turnover. Figure it out Why is that so hard to comprehend? Stone, Burakovsky, Terry, Meier, Hagel, Nylander have more takeaways at 5v5 than Pettersson and the same or less giveaways. They are all wingers. Why not put Pettersson on the wing where he is better suited and can still steal pucks. Put Miller at C where he is stronger in the dot, stronger along the boards, down low and infront of the net and can help in those areas by just simply pinning someone. Pettersson can easly sneak in and steal a puck. But if you rely on Petey to tie a guy up and keep him pinned against the boards while your dman or winger come in to help, its not going to go so smoothe.

[AnthonyG]

3 hours ago, HOFsedins said:

Hmm I know twins that beg to differ. I think they just were inducted into the HOF

Yea and when they got the puck, how many times did you see those 2 get pushed around and knocked off the puck? They made a career out of playing down low where you need to be strong as f. No one could take them off the puck once they had it. Petey gets knocked down a lot.

Edited December 1, 2022 by -DLC-

[DeNiro]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

Yea and when they got the puck, how many times did you see those 2 get pushed around and knocked off the puck? They made a career out of playing down low where you need to be strong as fvck. No one could take them off the puck once they had it. Petey gets knocked down a lot.

The Sedins didn’t play that way when they were 24 I can tell you that. They spent a lot of time down on the ice too.

 

It wasn’t until they were about 26 that they really started to control the boards.

 

Petey will get there.

 

 

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

very canuck like and we enter next season with EP as the only center option and we are back to a 1 line team again. EP Miller mihkahev or kuzmenko if he's still around? and then it'll be xxx xxx garland lol.. that's assuming boeser is traded too.. i dont see how we can sell EP on the future to make him wanna sign long term rather than his QO which prolly forces our hand to trade him before the draft next season.. good time to be a canucks fan so many ways to see this team blow up

With Kuzmenkos potential league average per production increase being almost $6 million + and Horvats next contract going to be a raise of $2.5 to $3 million from what he is making now, we will need a minimum of $8.75 million just to cover their next contracts/raises.  The likelihood of losing Horvat is in fact great.  But if we retain Horvat we wil lose Kuzmenko, where as if we retain Kuzmenko we will lose Horvat.

 

Losing Kuzmenko right now, essentially a ppg player for the top line with quality even strength production will set us back appreciably as we can't just make up his points as Hoglander and Podkolzin have shown.  Losing Horvat a PPG centre with positive metrics across the board, comparable at even strength as he is on the PP means we lose that defensively responsible centre and those face off wins which are so crucial for both offensive and defensive zone starts.

 

Those losses either singular or as a whole will set this team significantly far back as we will not have the cap space to find replacements and fix the blue line (again) which will lead to more of the exact same as we have seen since 2013/2014 which very well could exacerbate feelings of failure on the remaining core who could very well look to move elsewhere 

 

Damned if we do damned if we don't right now.

[HKSR]

8 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Lmao including PP numbers is ridiculous because you already have a man advantage. Derp.
 

 

Pettersson has 1 way of finding a way of getting the puck back and it works once game. But what he cant do is CONTAIN A PLAYER. Jesus christ. You need to be strong to be effective. Yes sure he is crafty, but it only works every so often. Whereas if the body is there and you are struggling to steal the puck. PIN THE FVCKING BODY. MUSCLE YOUR WAY IN AND TAKE CONTROL. This is a big part of playing C. He cant help clear the front of the net, will lose more battles in the corner than he will steal pucks. Its all leading to extended zone time for the opposition.

 

 

Go find me a stat that shows the things that Barzal and Malkin can do that lead to possession that Pettersson cant do. Like tie a guy up. Pin someone against the boards and keep them in place. There are things stats cannot track that are highly effective that Pettersson just strong enough or big enough to do.

 

You brought up giveaways lmfao. Im showing that the best players in the league have more giveaways and its highlighting guys who all possess the puck a lot. More possession=more chance of turnover. Figure it out Why is that so hard to comprehend? Stone, Burakovsky, Terry, Meier, Hagel, Nylander have more takeaways at 5v5 than Pettersson and the same or less giveaways. They are all wingers. Why not put Pettersson on the wing where he is better suited and can still steal pucks. Put Miller at C where he is stronger in the dot, stronger along the boards, down low and infront of the net and can help in those areas by just simply pinning someone. Pettersson can easly sneak in and steal a puck. But if you rely on Petey to tie a guy up and keep him pinned against the boards while your dman or winger come in to help, its not going to go so smoothe.

Omg it's hopeless.  You carry on touting that the 8th highest scoring centre in the entire league, one that people are comparing to the likes of one of the greatest 2 way players in Pavel Datsyuk is not capable of being a 1C.  Not gonna waste my time here.  You sound pretty foolish when a guy like Henrik Sedin was also knocked around all the time but is probably the greatest 1C this franchise has ever seen. 

[JayDangles]

22 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Play well down the stretch

Still be out of a playoff spot but close

Hear how all avenues are being explored

17 rumours about moving him

11 about signing him

TDL will pass

Signing rumours will go in to overdrive

Miss the playoffs, draft 12th 

Horvat walks for nothing

Hear how "we tried to get something done at the TDL but nobody was paying" and "We extended what we thought was a fair offer, they wanted to test the market"

Go in to off season hearing promises about change, big things happening; seeing good things from prospects that will never be allowed to play

Rinse and repeat to start 2023/2024

 

Just sayin

I like it! Sign me up! Gonna renew my Sportsnet subscription for next year already!

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

The Sedins didn’t play that way when they were 24 I can tell you that. They spent a lot of time down on the ice too.

 

It wasn’t until they were about 26 that they really started to control the boards.

 

Petey will get there.

 

 

If this forum existed in it's current manifestation between 2001 and 2006 the cries for trading the twins and how they are/were busts would have been deafening.  They were like newborn foals along the boards for their first few seasons with Klatt, King and lol Pyatt after Carter.

 

Even when carter was producing because of them they were still pushed around like mad.  

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I like it! Sign me up! Gonna renew my Sportsnet subscription for next year already!

Act Fast and you'll get your very own Dhali/Donny plush huggy to abuse ever time the team blows a multi goal lead!

[Rackdawg]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Omg it's hopeless.  You carry on touting that the 8th highest scoring centre in the entire league, one that people are comparing to the likes of one of the greatest 2 way players in Pavel Datsyuk is not capable of being a 1C.  Not gonna waste my time here.  You sound pretty foolish when a guy like Henrik Sedin was also knocked around all the time but is probably the greatest 1C this franchise has ever seen. 

Not probably...he was the greatest center to ever put on a jersey in van.

[DrJockitch]

As much as like Mik, kind of think spending more on the wing was a bad idea when you haven’t moved any money off the wing especially since you spent another bundle on the wing with JTM. 
‘Now if we lose our second most important forward because of the short sighted signing of Mik and Miller then it is a real problem and one that JR/PA should answer for harshly.

[DrJockitch]

33 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Play well down the stretch

Still be out of a playoff spot but close

Hear how all avenues are being explored

17 rumours about moving him

11 about signing him

TDL will pass

Signing rumours will go in to overdrive

Miss the playoffs, draft 12th 

Horvat walks for nothing

Hear how "we tried to get something done at the TDL but nobody was paying" and "We extended what we thought was a fair offer, they wanted to test the market"

Go in to off season hearing promises about change, big things happening; seeing good things from prospects that will never be allowed to play

Rinse and repeat to start 2023/2024

 

Just sayin

This seems very unrealistic.

We have no prospects to see good things from.

[AnthonyG]

24 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

The Sedins didn’t play that way when they were 24 I can tell you that. They spent a lot of time down on the ice too.

 

It wasn’t until they were about 26 that they really started to control the boards.

 

Petey will get there.

 

 

Exactly, hes just not ready yet. Thats why I first said if this team/management group is serious about making playoffs, they need to shift Petey to wing and put Miller as C. He can control guys down low far better than Petey. Let Petey rack up the points on the wing and still be able to steal pucks. But it they dont care about playoffs then fine sure let Petey stay at C, just dont expect our playoff chances to improve when most of the time 2-3 of our C’s are under 50% and often under 40%. 
 

He can work on C in practice during the season and in the off-season

[AnthonyG]

19 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

If this forum existed in it's current manifestation between 2001 and 2006 the cries for trading the twins and how they are/were busts would have been deafening.  They were like newborn foals along the boards for their first few seasons with Klatt, King and lol Pyatt after Carter.

 

Even when carter was producing because of them they were still pushed around like mad.  

Dude They Henrik wasnt our 1C.we had the WCE dominating while they were struggling and figuring it out. PETEY IS OUR 1C

Right now Petey is as effective at C as they were and hes our 1C. Thats a huuuuge responsibility. At least the twins had the WCE ahead of them and had role players below them for dzone draws. Petey is our 1C who has a hard time winning draws, staying on his feet and and impossible task of trying to tie up and pin much bigger forwards or D along the boards and battling for strength of positioning. He has to rely on his craftiness to outsmart guys that are just as smart as him, but are bigger and stronger. If Petey cannot out smart someone and steal the puck, tell me please how the f*** is he going to get the puck from a Crosby, Malkin, Ovi, Mantha, Kopitar, Draisaitl, McDavid, Tkachuk and so on and so forth. There are countless bigger players that are just as clever. Tell me how is he going to win a battle versus Kopitar?