[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[jyu]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think a big reason management won't let him talk contract terms with other teams is that a lot of the potential teams have loads of cap coming off the books next year and could offer him stupid money. I wonder if any team would even say 9M, then there's no way he re-signs here. I think probably in 2-4 weeks prior to the deadline once we've 100% ruled out a re-sign, Allvin will let other teams talk contract terms and things will speed up, but they must still be trying to re-sign him and somehow Kuzmenko for 6M too. Bo at 8.25M would be alright consider Petey is going to hit 9-10M+. 

 

Having Petey at 10M, Bo at 8.5M and Miller at 8M is nice, but then we can't have 4 wingers at 5-7M, along with 3 expensive defencemen. Something's got to give.

 

For me, get rid of the wingers, build around you centermen. Give Bo 8.5M if he wants. Give Petey 10-11M (he'll be a monster in his contract year, just watch). I'm not saying go as top-heavy as Toronto, but build around centers, not expensive wingers. 

 

Brock at 6.6M, Garland at 5M, Mikheyev at 5M and now Kuzmenko at 6M is all too rich for my blood. We can't have it all. Get rid of two of those guys and just rotate cheap guys and ELCs in on wing around Bo, Miller and Petey and they'll succeed. For me, Brock and Garland can go for picks and we use the money to keep Bo and Kuz but we simply can't and shouldn't have it all.

 

I'd ignore the D for now - we should be spending around 7M on a top defenceman (Hughes), then 6-7M on a couple of top-4 guys. The problem is that they're just not playing like top-4 guys but the spending % of the cap is pretty bang on unless you're lucky like Carolina and just have D-men playing out of their socks.

If we re-sign Bo and Kuz, our depth at forward:

 

Petey

Horvat

Miller

Boeser

Kuz

Garland

Mikheyev

 

I'd say one guy that doesn't fit in is Boeser, unless he becomes a different player under Tocchet.

 

Mikheyev-Petey-Kuz

Miller-Horvat-Garland

 

Then, bring up Podz and Hogs and if they perform well enough to replace Garland, then that's when we trade Garland. Frankly, I like Garland as he brings somewhat of a complimentary skillset to Miller and Horvat on that line and he could flourish under Tocchet.

 

Next season with Hogs and Podz on the same third line centered by a veteran 3C would also be good. 

 

Sadly, the cap won't work out to let us keep both Horvat and Kuzmenko. If we keep Horvat, we will have to trade Kuzmenko and keep Boeser for the time being on Petey's wing.

 

Petey has taken his game to the next level that Boeser could just feast on Petey; Boeser is an opportunistic player so maybe that will work out..

 

Though, I think Horvat is the one that will be traded as he looks set on hitting the UFA market. 

 

[Jayinblack]

8 hours ago, BPA said:

Horvat to DET for Rasmussen + Zadina + unprotected 1st 2023.

I live near Detroit and listen to their sports radio daily.  They love the idea of obtaining Bo but are adamant that any 1st would need to be protected.

 

Hopefully someone blinks first and JR/PA get their price

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think a big reason management won't let him talk contract terms with other teams is that a lot of the potential teams have loads of cap coming off the books next year and could offer him stupid money. I wonder if any team would even say 9M, then there's no way he re-signs here. I think probably in 2-4 weeks prior to the deadline once we've 100% ruled out a re-sign, Allvin will let other teams talk contract terms and things will speed up, but they must still be trying to re-sign him and somehow Kuzmenko for 6M too. Bo at 8.25M would be alright consider Petey is going to hit 9-10M+. 

 

Having Petey at 10M, Bo at 8.5M and Miller at 8M is nice, but then we can't have 4 wingers at 5-7M, along with 3 expensive defencemen. Something's got to give.

 

For me, get rid of the wingers, build around you centermen. Give Bo 8.5M if he wants. Give Petey 10-11M (he'll be a monster in his contract year, just watch). I'm not saying go as top-heavy as Toronto, but build around centers, not expensive wingers. 

 

Brock at 6.6M, Garland at 5M, Mikheyev at 5M and now Kuzmenko at 6M is all too rich for my blood. We can't have it all. Get rid of two of those guys and just rotate cheap guys and ELCs in on wing around Bo, Miller and Petey and they'll succeed. For me, Brock and Garland can go for picks and we use the money to keep Bo and Kuz but we simply can't and shouldn't have it all.

 

I'd ignore the D for now - we should be spending around 7M on a top defenceman (Hughes), then 6-7M on a couple of top-4 guys. The problem is that they're just not playing like top-4 guys but the spending % of the cap is pretty bang on unless you're lucky like Carolina and just have D-men playing out of their socks.

We should not be paying Bo $8.5m based on a career/contract year and unsustainable shooting percentage.

 

His value is in the $7-$7.5m range (possibly $6.5-$7 with a home town discount-which were not likely getting anymore, trade clause etc). Which is still more than we've reportedly offered.

 

If he won't sign for that that vicinity, we're better off with the trade assets. And I hope we move Miller as well.

[aGENT]

31 minutes ago, jyu said:

If we re-sign Bo and Kuz, our depth at forward:

 

Petey

Horvat

Miller

Boeser

Kuz

Garland

Mikheyev

 

I'd say one guy that doesn't fit in is Boeser, unless he becomes a different player under Tocchet.

 

Mikheyev-Petey-Kuz

Miller-Horvat-Garland

 

Then, bring up Podz and Hogs and if they perform well enough to replace Garland, then that's when we trade Garland. Frankly, I like Garland as he brings somewhat of a complimentary skillset to Miller and Horvat on that line and he could flourish under Tocchet.

 

Next season with Hogs and Podz on the same third line centered by a veteran 3C would also be good. 

 

Sadly, the cap won't work out to let us keep both Horvat and Kuzmenko. If we keep Horvat, we will have to trade Kuzmenko and keep Boeser for the time being on Petey's wing.

 

Petey has taken his game to the next level that Boeser could just feast on Petey; Boeser is an opportunistic player so maybe that will work out..

 

Though, I think Horvat is the one that will be traded as he looks set on hitting the UFA market. 

 

With all that money tied up, how do you propose we pay for that 3C? Improve the defense?

[DownUndaCanuck]

Lots of talk of Larkin negotiations not going well, wonder if there's a swap to be had there. Bo + Schenn for Larkin + 1st?

[Boudrias]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We should not be paying Bo $8.5m based on a career/contract year and unsustainable shooting percentage.

 

His value is in the $7-$7.5m range (possibly $6.5-$7 with a home town discount-which were not likely getting anymore, trade clause etc). Which is still more than we've reportedly offered.

 

If he won't sign for that that vicinity, we're better off with the trade assets. And I hope we move Miller as well.

I wanted Miller gone last spring. Failing that PA got price certainty by resigning him. Whether that can be flipped in a trade I guess we will see. Moving both Bo and JT is pretty major. It leaves Petey as the senior top 6 forward based on tenure. It suggests that management picked Koz over the possible return got from the other 2. I move Miller because of age. I likely move Horvat because of the cost of retention and the upside of what he brings back. Koz is a cheap contract for any acquiring team to make room for. His rookie status would lower the return. 

 

The Tocchet take on potential moves would be interesting. He might be happier to have a cleaner slate than not. As usual it is all about who comes back on any deals. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

40 minutes ago, jyu said:

If we re-sign Bo and Kuz, our depth at forward:

 

Petey

Horvat

Miller

Boeser

Kuz

Garland

Mikheyev

 

I'd say one guy that doesn't fit in is Boeser, unless he becomes a different player under Tocchet.

 

Mikheyev-Petey-Kuz

Miller-Horvat-Garland

 

Then, bring up Podz and Hogs and if they perform well enough to replace Garland, then that's when we trade Garland. Frankly, I like Garland as he brings somewhat of a complimentary skillset to Miller and Horvat on that line and he could flourish under Tocchet.

 

Next season with Hogs and Podz on the same third line centered by a veteran 3C would also be good. 

 

Sadly, the cap won't work out to let us keep both Horvat and Kuzmenko. If we keep Horvat, we will have to trade Kuzmenko and keep Boeser for the time being on Petey's wing.

 

Petey has taken his game to the next level that Boeser could just feast on Petey; Boeser is an opportunistic player so maybe that will work out..

 

Though, I think Horvat is the one that will be traded as he looks set on hitting the UFA market. 

 

Still think we're one Miller too heavy there. Imagine that 8M poured into a star defenceman, and then just plonk Hoglander or Podkolzin there. Much better team.

 

I think for balance-sake I'd ideally trade Miller and his 8M, trade Boeser and his 6.5M and heck even get rid of Garland's 5M. Ideally we move Myers if he still sucks with Tocchet and his 6M.

 

Then with the 25M, spend 8M on keeping Bo, 6M on Kuzmenko, spend 5-6M on a decent top-4 defenceman, 3M on a 3rd line center and 3M on Bear to play as our 4th defenceman.

 

Of course easier said than done but that would be better balance than what we have now - with Miller at wing we have a ludicrous amount of cap spent on wingers.

[Screw]

15 minutes ago, Jayinblack said:

I live near Detroit and listen to their sports radio daily.  They love the idea of obtaining Bo but are adamant that any 1st would need to be protected.

 

Hopefully someone blinks first and JR/PA get their price

I agree fully.  No way any team team trades a Bedard ticket.  I think it being protected should they win and move up is fair.

[jyu]

20 minutes ago, aGENT said:

With all that money tied up, how do you propose we pay for that 3C? Improve the defense?

Yes you are right. That's why if you finished reading my post, I say that we won't have enough cap to sign both Horvat and Kuz.

 

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I wanted Miller gone last spring. Failing that PA got price certainty by resigning him. Whether that can be flipped in a trade I guess we will see.

Same. And yes Miller's contract isn't bad (good even!), just a poor fit with our timeline. I'm hopeful but not optimistic that we move him before his NMC kicks in. If we're moving Bo, IMO there's little reason to retain Miller. We'll be back filling the roster, 2C etc for the scant remaining time of his productive years and be left with an aging, expensive anchor just as we're trying to compete.

 

13 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Moving both Bo and JT is pretty major. It leaves Petey as the senior top 6 forward based on tenure. It suggests that management picked Koz over the possible return got from the other 2. I move Miller because of age. I likely move Horvat because of the cost of retention and the upside of what he brings back. Koz is a cheap contract for any acquiring team to make room for. His rookie status would lower the return. 

Agreed. And yes it would be major. But the assets and cap coming back (not to mention a likely higher pick this year, minus their contributions) should help set us up for an ACTUAL contention window.

 

13 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

The Tocchet take on potential moves would be interesting. He might be happier to have a cleaner slate than not. As usual it is all about who comes back on any deals. 

 

I think this is one of many reasons Tocchet was brought in now vs end of season. He's going to help management sort the wheat from the chaff. And yes,  the returns will make it break this.

Edited January 24, 2023 by aGENT

[jyu]

9 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Still think we're one Miller too heavy there. Imagine that 8M poured into a star defenceman, and then just plonk Hoglander or Podkolzin there. Much better team.

 

I think for balance-sake I'd ideally trade Miller and his 8M, trade Boeser and his 6.5M and heck even get rid of Garland's 5M. Ideally we move Myers if he still sucks with Tocchet and his 6M.

 

Then with the 25M, spend 8M on keeping Bo, 6M on Kuzmenko, spend 5-6M on a decent top-4 defenceman, 3M on a 3rd line center and 3M on Bear to play as our 4th defenceman.

 

Of course easier said than done but that would be better balance than what we have now - with Miller at wing we have a ludicrous amount of cap spent on wingers.

I would also like to trade Miller. But on the other hand, if Tocchet can make him put in a complete effort, like he used to in his first couple seasons here, then we have to acknowledge that he is a winger that can play the heavy game and compliment the roster very nicely. 

 

Podz and Hogs are not top 6 players yet and may not be next season.

 

And the reality of it is that unloading a 29, soon to be 30 year old making 8 mil x 7 years is not feasible at the moment. 

 

Boeser is redundant because he brings even less physicality than Garland. But again, unloading him doesn't seem easy at the moment.

 

That's why we are left with having to trade Horvat if we want to keep Kuz and have some money to upgrade defence.

 

Frankly, I don't know if we will have cap space to upgrade defence much at all next season. Could they unload one of Miller, Boeser, Garland, Myers? I don't have much faith in this management that they will be able to do so.

 

 

[billabong]

One team that we keep hearing but I can’t wrap my head around “why?” Is Detroit. 
 

unless they give up assets for horvat to roll the dice on signing him and recoup those assets by flipping Larkin 

 

untouchables I’m guessing are Raymond seider and maybe hronek considering the season he is having. 
 

so what’s left?

 

kasper, edvinsson, Rasmussen, zadina, veleno and soberblom

 

To van: kasper, edvinsson, zadina 

 

to det: horvat 

[CanucksJay]

Looks like we'll most liekly be stuck with Miller and Boeser.

If Miller takes Horvat's bumper spot on the PP and Boeser takes Millers spot on the left hash marks, will we see much of a change in the PP performance?

 

I feel like Horvat is shooting at an unsustainable level. Horvat will never replicate 23% shooting I feel like. His career range has been 14-18 percent ish...

Im actually on the trade Horvat and rebuid Miller under Tocchet train.

 

[Nucker 67]

JR said that they would like to bring in young players that are in their ELC or just out of, that could use a fresh start. This, to me, means high drafted players that aren't panning out as expected (yet). 

 

DET for possibly Zadina+, Rasmussen+ or Veleno+

 

or CAR for Kotkaniemi+ 

 

or NYR for Kravtsov+, or Kakko+

 

[Ted Lasso]

28 minutes ago, billabong said:

One team that we keep hearing but I can’t wrap my head around “why?” Is Detroit. 
 

unless they give up assets for horvat to roll the dice on signing him and recoup those assets by flipping Larkin 

 

untouchables I’m guessing are Raymond seider and maybe hronek considering the season he is having. 
 

so what’s left?

 

kasper, edvinsson, Rasmussen, zadina, veleno and soberblom

 

To van: kasper, edvinsson, zadina 

 

to det: horvat 

They are slipping out of contention…not sure they should be buying

[billabong]

9 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

They are slipping out of contention…not sure they should be buying

My thoughts exactly but apparently they’re still in the mix 

[Ted Lasso]

2 minutes ago, billabong said:

My thoughts exactly but apparently they’re still in the mix 

I made a proposal involving Detroit here. Kasper scouting reports are intriguing 

 

 

[Off_The_Schneid!]

A couple of comments about things I consistently keep reading.

 

- Just because they haven’t allowed teams to talk contract yet doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Most likely the last step after all the fine details are ironed out. No point letting them talk unless you have a deal 95% agreed upon 

 

- Carolina isn’t a fit, they have young centers, they would be more inclined to go with Timo Meir or a less expensive (acquisition cost ) veteran true rental center . Rumoured Toews for 2nd rounder. 
 

Teams im cheering for to string some wins together : Nashville, NYI, Florida 

Could be potential landing spots if playoffs seem achievable. NYI and Nashville seem like the best trade partner from their perspective long term IMO
 

[Ted Lasso]

Considering their first is now a top 10, think it’s off the table, but a deal around Kasper or Rasmussen could address our C need. They don’t have any significant RD I could find

[billabong]

10 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

I made a proposal involving Detroit here. Kasper scouting reports are intriguing 

 

 

Props to you for posting the scouting report 

 

To me edvinsson is the prize out of Detroit as we have zero in the pipeline on D on the left side and right side. he’s a bonafide young top 4 D in the making 

 

edvinsson, kasper or rasmussen, zadina

 

edvinsson and Kasper would be a grand slam home run but Rasmussen would be a great consolation prize if Det holds onto Kasper 

Edited January 24, 2023 by billabong