[GDT] December 19, 2021 GAME POSTPONED (Was Arizona @ Vancouver) - PLEASE KEEP IT TO HOCKEY RELATED TALK

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Coconuts]

46 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Honestly don’t see the point in talking trades right now at all. Let’s get closer to the deadline here and see where this team is. Meaningless otherwise. 
 

And hey maybe we’ll go on a run to the playoffs and people can complain we didn’t get any assets lol. Classic 

Because that's what we do best on CDC, beat topics to death and then beat them some more. Regardless of whether we actually need to or not. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

This break may actually be a blessing in disguise for the Canucks.

 

Boudreau will now get the time to properly introduce his new systems to the team and they will get the time to practice them.

 

Hopefully the season will re-start in late December and early January and the team will be ready and refreshed with all their systems and responsibilities understood... and they can start a new streak of wins.

They've also had ample time to locate a proper priest to exorcise the room. Guys heads have been on a swivel(360 degrees) & they've been puking Green doctrine!

[Coconuts]

35 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

What going on in here?

 

We still talking about trading my bff?

 

I wont stand for it.

I will fill out all the necessary forms at the complaint department if this nonsense ever comes to fruition. 

[Devron]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Because that's what we do best on CDC, beat topics to death and then beat them some more. Regardless of whether we actually need to or not. 

Sure but it’s a silly topic. Like trading Boeser for Dumba quality. Miller is our best forward by far. Literally drives the offence. That and he literally has another year on his contract after this

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Sure but it’s a silly topic. Like trading Boeser for Dumba quality. Miller is our best forward by far. Literally drives the offence. That and he literally has another year on his contract after this

See, that's where some folks disagree. If everyone thought it were silly there wouldn't be so much discussion about it. This forum is for hockey talk, Miller is a Canuck, trades take place in the NHL. The topic is absolutely fair game. 

 

You don't have to like it, you don't even have to agree with it, but people will discuss it and there will be legitimate points on both sides. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Coconuts

[Devron]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

See, that's where some folks disagree. If everyone thought it were silly there wouldn't be so much discussion about it. This forum is for hockey talk, Miller is a Canuck, trades take place in the NHL. The topic is absolutely fair game. 

 

You don't have to like it, you don't even have to agree with it, but people will discuss it and there will be legitimate points on both sides. 

Yup and I will be the one to say told you so. Just like I laugh at people wanting to trade Boeser for Dumba. It’s all laughable and belongs in the proposal section

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Yup and I will be the one to say told you so. Just like I laugh at people wanting to trade Boeser for Dumba. It’s all laughable and belongs in the proposal section

Remains to be seen. 

 

As for Boeser for Dumba, we're on the same page there. Boeser isn't someone I'm interested in moving. But I'm not hellbent on keeping him either, I see everyone on this roster aside from Demko, Hughes, and maybe Horvat are being players I'd potentially move. Depends on the offer, even Gretzky was traded. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Coconuts

[204CanucksFan]

 

 

[EddieVedder]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Remains to be seen. 

 

As for Boeser for Dumba, we're on the same page there. Boeser isn't someone I'm interested in moving. But I'm not hellbent on keeping him either, I see everyone on this roster aside from Demko, Hughes, and maybe Horvat are being players I'd potentially move. Depends on the offer, even Gretzky was traded. 

2 of boesers goals were pure luck.  The rest he got perfect setups on.  

No matter how you slice it, hes a slow and soft forward whos not a playdriver... not worth 8 mil especially when youre going to need to sign players like podz and hogz soon. 

[Devron]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Remains to be seen. 

 

As for Boeser for Dumba, we're on the same page there. Boeser isn't someone I'm interested in moving. But I'm not hellbent on keeping him either, I see everyone on this roster aside from Demko, Hughes, and maybe Horvat are being players I'd potentially move. Depends on the offer, even Gretzky was traded. 

What your saying is true and do agree. However some times these things grow legs and if almost turns into a bandwagon. It use to be “in fashion” to trade Boeser. Now it’s in fashion to trade Miller. May as well make a thread on it in the proposal section but I’m sure there is already. I think it’s respectable to talk about the team we have in place on the GDT Imo. Im sure not everyone agrees.

 

My opinion is you don’t move a guy like Miller unless JR and Co have an idea that things won’t work cap wise, player wise. Maybe Miller see himself a Canuck for a long time, maybe he doesn’t. All factors that we like to pretend we know. Like for example some people seem to think JT wants out. Isn’t that always the rumour. Personally I just see a guy that wants to win and maybe that’s coming sooner then some people envisioned. Winning streak aside I always thought we were a better team and further along then people say. Maybe that finally coming fo fruition.

 

One final note. LE ruined the fans in a lot of ways. One of them is anyone over 30 sucks. Look around the league though. That’s so far from the truth. Miller has just hit his prime and a player I can see being very good for years to come because of his playing style 

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

2 of boesers goals were pure luck.  The rest he got perfect setups on.  

No matter how you slice it, hes a slow and soft forward whos not a playdriver... not worth 8 mil especially when youre going to need to sign players like podz and hogz soon. 

Boeser is absolutely a complimentary winger, but any way you spin it he's been hot lately. He was one of our best, if not arguably our best forward last season. Him and Miller were around a similar PPG. 

 

He's definitely not worth 8M, but there's no way he gets it. His qualifying offer is 7.5M but I don't see why he couldn't be extended beforehand. He's a piece I could actually see being moved out too if the Canucks don't like where negotiations are at. But I'd be more surprised to see him go than Miller, I think a deal gets done. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

What your saying is true and do agree. However some times these things grow legs and if almost turns into a bandwagon. It use to be “in fashion” to trade Boeser. Now it’s in fashion to trade Miller. May as well make a thread on it in the proposal section but I’m sure there is already. I think it’s respectable to talk about the team we have in place on the GDT Imo. Im sure not everyone agrees.

 

My opinion is you don’t move a guy like Miller unless JR and Co have an idea that things won’t work cap wise, player wise. Maybe Miller see himself a Canuck for a long time, maybe he doesn’t. All factors that we like to pretend we know. Like for example some people seem to think JT wants out. Isn’t that always the rumour. Personally I just see a guy that wants to win and maybe that’s coming sooner then some people envisioned. Winning streak aside I always thought we were a better team and further along then people say. Maybe that finally coming fo fruition.

 

One final note. LE ruined the fans in a lot of ways. One of them is anyone over 30 sucks. Look around the league though. That’s so far from the truth. Miller has just hit his prime and a player I can see being very good for years to come because of his playing style 

In my defense, I've been banging this Miller drum for at least the last two months. This isn't new territory for me. But yes, sports fans love a bandwagon. But I don't think cap concerns should be written off entirely because of that, or concerns about the future of the roster and organization. For some folks it's going to be that they simply don't like Miller, but from what I've seen most people concerns revolve around cap space, playing ability, how he'll age, roster construction, what different folks view as our competitive window and a slew of other reasons. It's not a tidy topic cut and dry topic regardless of whether someone wants to retain him or not. As for the GDT, perhaps not, but I've seen sillier things discussed in GDT's. We won't have a game for at least a week now anyway. 

 

And that's exactly it, we don't know what Miller wants. Miller may not even know what Miller wants. But people speculate, and uncertainty breeds discussion. I think he wants to win, I think he's a talented player, I see why people like him. But the reasons people want to keep him are the same reasons he'd be valuable to another team, and many folks would capitalize on that. There's no way of knowing, even if he came out and said something people still wouldn't necessarily believe it. He could always change his mind. I've seen interviews from Edler over the years, he's stated he'd like to stay in Vancouver at various points.. now he's in LA. Hockey happens. 

 

I like our players, but I'm not as attached to them as some other folks. Hockey is a business, players move every year. Rare is the player who sticks with a team their whole career. These are things I keep in mind. Rutherford has been rather ruthless in the past with some of his moves, but those in hockey management need to be able to be ruthless. Fans can afford to get too attached, those running a hundred million dollar organization cannot. 

 

I don't think that was Loui at all. The average player is as their best during their 20's and begins to fall of into their 30's, that's how things typically go. There are outliers, absolutely. Some players peak later like the twins, but rare is the player who keeps going like Ovi and Jagr. Players can be effective into their 30's, but questions related to just how effective they'll be are perfectly fair. Some players, often top players, age better than others. Loui fell off a cliff, nobody saw that coming. Players don't become worthless at 30, but not every forward is going to be Bergeron, every D isn't going to age like Weber, and not every goaltender is going to be a Brodeur. Sports are unpredictable, you never really know how a player will age. But like so many other things in sports, it's a gamble. 

 

 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

3 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Stupid to talk about trading Miller... what other team in the league would trade away their best offensive player?

 

Unless the Canucks get some kind of amazing offer, like the Panthers offering to trade Aaron Ekblad one for one for Miller, this should be a non-issue.

Hoping to see an extension on Miller

[MaxVerstappen33]

When is the next hockey game going to be ? Is the game after the desert dogs cancelled too ?

[-DLC-]

4 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

When is the next hockey game going to be ? Is the game after the desert dogs cancelled too ?

Likely the Kraken on the 27th.  If all goes well.

[MaxVerstappen33]

47 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

 

 

And if a couple players have covid, they'll add a week.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, fanfor42 said:

I get that you are saying other teams have traded their best players in the past.

 

But I think the original question he was asking could be rephrased as - who has won the trade of their best player?

 

It's risky and I'd say doesn't always turn out well.

 

 

Quebec easily won the Lindros trade.  You could make a pretty strong case that Buffalo won the Mogilny-Peca trade, and also that we won the Bure trade over the long term.

[Devron]

30 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

In my defense, I've been banging this Miller drum for at least the last two months. This isn't new territory for me. But yes, sports fans love a bandwagon. But I don't think cap concerns should be written off entirely because of that, or concerns about the future of the roster and organization. For some folks it's going to be that they simply don't like Miller, but from what I've seen most people concerns revolve around cap space, playing ability, how he'll age, roster construction, what different folks view as our competitive window and a slew of other reasons. It's not a tidy topic cut and dry topic regardless of whether someone wants to retain him or not. As for the GDT, perhaps not, but I've seen sillier things discussed in GDT's. We won't have a game for at least a week now anyway. 

This is why it doesn’t make sense to talk about trading him right now. Bruce very well could be taking us to the playoffs with this roster. If JR and Co trade Miller then he is fully off his rocker. If it doesn’t look good by the deadline then ya discussions need to be made. By both fans and management.

33 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

And that's exactly it, we don't know what Miller wants. Miller may not even know what Miller wants. But people speculate, and uncertainty breeds discussion. I think he wants to win, I think he's a talented player, I see why people like him. But the reasons people want to keep him are the same reasons he'd be valuable to another team, and many folks would capitalize on that. There's no way of knowing, even if he came out and said something people still wouldn't necessarily believe it. He could always change his mind. I've seen interviews from Edler over the years, he's stated he'd like to stay in Vancouver at various points.. now he's in LA. Hockey happens. 

Yup pretty much echoed my words here.

34 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I like our players, but I'm not as attached to them as some other folks. Hockey is a business, players move every year. Rare is the player who sticks with a team their whole career. These are things I keep in mind. Rutherford has been rather ruthless in the past with some of his moves, but those in hockey management need to be able to be ruthless. Fans can afford to get too attached, those running a hundred million dollar organization cannot. 

I agree very rare a player stays his whole career. We differ here though I do have attachment to a lot of the players. I watch them. I listen to their stories. I cheer for them to score. It’s not just a jersey to me otherwise we may as well say Player Name scored. Too robotic, not my thing. That’s why I have fantasy pools I can do what I please with. I don’t usually mess with my nucks that’s someone else’s job. However I do have opinions on whether a player is a good one to have or not or it’s time to let go. I’m just not into proposals like alot of fans are. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it but like I said before my beef is the bandwagons. Not you. I know you well enough that you know your stuff. It’s just a thing now. Losing team, best asset, expiring contract. But it’s too early to confirm that. 

 

42 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I don't think that was Loui at all. The average player is as their best during their 20's and begins to fall of into their 30's, that's how things typically go. There are outliers, absolutely. Some players peak later like the twins, but rare is the player who keeps going like Ovi and Jagr. Players can be effective into their 30's, but questions related to just how effective they'll be are perfectly fair. Some players, often top players, age better than others. Loui fell off a cliff, nobody saw that coming. Players don't become worthless at 30, but not every forward is going to be Bergeron, every D isn't going to age like Weber, and not every goaltender is going to be a Brodeur. Sports are unpredictable, you never really know how a player will age. But like so many other things in sports, it's a gamble. 

 

I disagree the average Canucks fan does have a false sense of age and what to expect because of Loui. Even if you and I understand that he just feel of the map. Should have at the very least been a 50 point guy the first few years. Others do not understand that. I agree everyone ages differently. But if Miller is a guy that does keep playing like this for the next 5 years and the assets we got back in a trade don’t cut it in the end. Everyone looks stupid 

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

This is why it doesn’t make sense to talk about trading him right now. Bruce very well could be taking us to the playoffs with this roster. If JR and Co trade Miller then he is fully off his rocker. If it doesn’t look good by the deadline then ya discussions need to be made. By both fans and management.

 

Yup pretty much echoed my words here.

 

I agree very rare a player stays his whole career. We differ here though I do have attachment to a lot of the players. I watch them. I listen to their stories. I cheer for them to score. It’s not just a jersey to me otherwise we may as well say Player Name scored. Too robotic, not my thing. That’s why I have fantasy pools I can do what I please with. I don’t usually mess with my nucks that’s someone else’s job. However I do have opinions on whether a player is a good one to have or not or it’s time to let go. I’m just not into proposals like alot of fans are. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it but like I said before my beef is the bandwagons. Not you. I know you well enough that you know your stuff. It’s just a thing now. Losing team, best asset, expiring contract. But it’s too early to confirm that. 

 

I disagree the average Canucks fan does have a false sense of age and what to expect because of Loui. Even if you and I understand that he just feel of the map. Should have at the very least been a 50 point guy the first few years. Others do not understand that. I agree everyone ages differently. But if Miller is a guy that does keep playing like this for the next 5 years and the assets we got back in a trade don’t cut it in the end. Everyone looks stupid 

He could, but we're still a long shot at this point. I've been arguing we should trade him, but I'm not arguing he should be traded tomorrow. If we're out of it he should absolutely be on the table, but if we're in the mix I figure we'll let things play out and re-evaluate where we're at when the season is over. Until Rutherford feels like he's had ample to evaluate where this organization is at, and probably get more management folk in, I don't see him trading anyone. But by the end of January he'll likely have an idea of what he's got and management will likely be exploring several different potential routes.

 

And that's perfectly fine, it's not my job to tell you or anyone how to be a fan or how to have a relationship with the team, organization, and it's players. The fanbase ain't a monolith, and that's what's what makes a lot of the discussion that takes place here interesting. 

 

I think he should have been better, what happened was appalling. I can't remember what my reaction to the signing was but I'd wager it was probably positive, I probably figured he'd have a few solid years. I think a lot of media at the time thought it was a fair deal. A lot of free agent deals signed that year went south though, it's weird. And maybe, but that's the gamble. GM's and teams aren't going to win every trade. Sometimes there's a clear winner, sometimes it takes a bit longer to decide, sometimes both teams get what they want. It's impossible to say. There's a chance we look stupid if we trade Miller, on the flip side there's the chance we sign him to big dollars and term and he's not worth what we're paying him sooner than later. You never know.