[Discussion] Time for JR to make his first big move (Boeser)

[NHL97OneTimer]

It's been tricky to really judge this team over the past few weeks given the COVID impact.  I think this team can pull off a playoff spot still, and regardless, this team is looking like it's tracking well overall.  With that said, I don't think JR believes in this group as is and I don't blame him.  We want a contender, not a possible playoff team.  If you're JR and you look at the salary cap knowing you have some decisions ahead of you, do you wait for the trade deadline or do you act sooner?  In normal years, you wait for the trade deadline.  However, this year's financial situation may mean trading a bigger salary will be more difficult, so working the lines earlier may be prudent.

 

Back in October, the Hockey Writers wrote that Boeser's next contract will likely be a $7.5-8.5M/yr x 6-7 years.  Now this may be different by the time he needs to resign, but anything close to this number at this point is just not on.  This is perhaps where I'll rub a few people the wrong way but Boeser is just too slow, soft and inconsistent to be a guy paid at this level.  He also brings very few intangibles unlike players like JT and Bo.  He can shoot well and his takeaway-to-giveaway ratio is the best on the team (surprisingly), but he doesn't hit or do well in the circle.  His +/- is second to worst on the team and his offensive production is fairly weak for a guy getting nearly 20 min a game with first powerplay time.  Compare analytics with Podkolzin who has 2/3s the ice time.  He has a similar goals per TOI ratio despite not being on the first power play.  He outranks Boeser in hits, +/- (by 10), face-off % (small numbers though), shooting percentage and other stats.  He's an excellent shooter himself.

 

Full disclosure - I like Brock and I'd like to have him stay on this team for a cap hit that makes sense.  But if this team wants to move forward, it has to avoid contracts like what Brock will demand.  We need to avoid summers with stars not being signed, and we absolutely have to avoid losing other good players because of signing bad contracts (e.g. losing Marky, Tanev and Toffoli).  JR also has to establish a culture where contracts match performance and are not increased just because they're old contract is expiring.

 

If the Canucks are to be a contender, that window needs to happen in the next 3-5 years.  It all starts in the next 4 weeks and JR better start by pulling the trigger on Boeser imo. 

 

What do you think?  Have the Canucks reached the fork in the road where core players need to be moved before the deadline in order to make the next jump?

Edited January 22, 2022 by NHL97OneTimer

[Alflives]

Boeser is great along the walls.  He’s a fabulous young play, who can score clean, which is a rare breed.  We will keep him.  Miller, Motte, and Dickinson will be moved.  

[nux_win]

Trading away Boeser just in case he becomes too expensive doesn't seem very wise to me.  Sure, we could ease all our cap problems by trading away our skilled players but that isn't the goal.  Winning is the goal (I hope).  We have to keep pure goal scorers like Boeser and figure out the cap as we go.   GCG!

[Crabcakes]

I think the next big move is to hire a GM

 

Do we know what this version of the Canucks actually is?  Surely not the pre-Boudreau team but how good is it really?  

 

Nobody cares about my opinion but here it is anyways.  I think they're a borderline playoff team.  And of course, many of the young players are still improving.

 

 

[Nucker 67]

I agree. He's too slow and $7+ is a lot IMO.  I think the Canucks would get a very nice return in a trade, and get a player with speed (and possibly size) that could help this team be better.  

[grandmaster]

35 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Boeser is great along the walls.  He’s a fabulous young play, who can score clean, which is a rare breed.  We will keep him.  Miller, Motte, and Dickinson will be moved.  

No way Brock stays ahead of Miller. Miller is the MVP of this team (other than Demko). The Canucks would collapse if Miller was gone. Heart and soul of this franchise. A true power forward not seen on this team since Bert. Brock can be replaced but not Miller.

Edited January 22, 2022 by grandmaster

[MeanSeanBean]

I'd much rather trade Miller over Brock. Miller is at his peak right now, and will only decline as his career goes on. Brock has likely not peaked yet. We have seen glances of how dominate he can be, but injuries have slowed him down.

 

I also find it telling when you watch behind the scene videos of the guys. Brock is nearly always there and acting like a brother to the guys. I just think long term he brings more to the team the JT. Short term, JT is the better and more valuable player right now. But that means he can bring a better return now, while Brock can become more valuable to the team as time goes on.

 

Imo, moving on Boeser would be a terrible idea (and that's not just because I have his jersey)

[hammertime]

24 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I agree. He's too slow and $7+ is a lot IMO.  I think the Canucks would get a very nice return in a trade, and get a player with speed (and possibly size) that could help this team be better.  

Why would the canucks get a very nice return in a trade when as you say he is slow and not worth his QO?

[NHL97OneTimer]

9 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

I'd much rather trade Miller over Brock. Miller is at his peak right now, and will only decline as his career goes on. Brock has likely not peaked yet. We have seen glances of how dominate he can be, but injuries have slowed him down.

 

I also find it telling when you watch behind the scene videos of the guys. Brock is nearly always there and acting like a brother to the guys. I just think long term he brings more to the team the JT. Short term, JT is the better and more valuable player right now. But that means he can bring a better return now, while Brock can become more valuable to the team as time goes on.

 

Imo, moving on Boeser would be a terrible idea (and that's not just because I have his jersey)

So you'd rather pay ~$8M/yr hoping that Boeser hasn't peaked yet than keep Miller at $5.25M/yr who is actually peaking right now?  I think that only holds if you're seeing a huge upswing in Brock......we are not.  IMO Brock has definitely peaked already.  I'm basing that on the fact that his conditioning has not improved over the years, nor has his versatility.

[NHL97OneTimer]

1 minute ago, hammertime said:

Why would the canucks get a very nice return in a trade when as you say he is slow and not worth his QO?

Because other teams have to sometimes give their fans a boost in morale and because some teams are willing to pay a bit extra if they think they're close to a cup.

[hammertime]

13 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

I'd much rather trade Miller over Brock. Miller is at his peak right now, and will only decline as his career goes on. Brock has likely not peaked yet. We have seen glances of how dominate he can be, but injuries have slowed him down.

 

I also find it telling when you watch behind the scene videos of the guys. Brock is nearly always there and acting like a brother to the guys. I just think long term he brings more to the team the JT. Short term, JT is the better and more valuable player right now. But that means he can bring a better return now, while Brock can become more valuable to the team as time goes on.

 

Imo, moving on Boeser would be a terrible idea (and that's not just because I have his jersey)

Brock will be 25 in less than a month he is what he is. IMO a top 6 tweener. Who brings very little to the table other than scoring which he doesn't do very much of. 

[NHL97OneTimer]

58 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Boeser is great along the walls.  He’s a fabulous young play, who can score clean, which is a rare breed.  We will keep him.  Miller, Motte, and Dickinson will be moved.  

That's fantastic marketing....."he's great along the walls", "he's a rare breed".  We should add that to the marketing to trade him.  

 

Podz is great along the walls too and he comes in at a much lower price.  Building great teams involves paying some guys a lot less than their contribution in a cap world.

[hammertime]

2 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Because other teams have to sometimes give their fans a boost in morale and because some teams are willing to pay a bit extra if they think they're close to a cup.

IMO JR would do very well to recoup a late 1st 25-32 or a 2nd and a prospect for Brock. 

[Nucker 67]

Might get scorched for this, but a Boeser for Fiala and Boldy trade could be real good

 

Fiala brings speed and skill to the team now.  Boldy is part of the youth movement.  Boeser gets to play for his home team and be near family.

 

 

 

[NHL97OneTimer]

1 minute ago, hammertime said:

IMO JR would do very well to recoup a late 1st 25-32 or a 2nd and a prospect for Brock. 

A solid top 4 D would be great though if we could get one.

[hammertime]

Just now, NUCKER67 said:

Might get scorched for this, but a Boeser for Fiala and Boldy trade could be real good

 

Fiala brings speed and skill to the team now.  Boldy is part of the youth movement.  Boeser gets to play for his home team and be near family.

 

 

 

No way they give us Boldy alone. Let alone anything additional. 

[Bure_of_94]

3 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Because other teams have to sometimes give their fans a boost in morale and because some teams are willing to pay a bit extra if they think they're close to a cup.

This isn’t an ea sports game. 
 

 I would suspect the real reason to trade him is that his QO would be 7.5million and his agent would have to be pretty dumb to take anything less. 
 

 I’m not sure that Brock is worth 7.5 million/season in a league where speed has become vital the last 5-10 years and a lot of players aren’t making it past 30-32 anymore. 
 

 

 If we don’t ship off Brock, we lose both Miller and Horvat to make the cap work in the summer. 

[grandmaster]

10 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

I'd much rather trade Miller over Brock. Miller is at his peak right now, and will only decline as his career goes on. Brock has likely not peaked yet. We have seen glances of how dominate he can be, but injuries have slowed him down.

 

I also find it telling when you watch behind the scene videos of the guys. Brock is nearly always there and acting like a brother to the guys. I just think long term he brings more to the team the JT. Short term, JT is the better and more valuable player right now. But that means he can bring a better return now, while Brock can become more valuable to the team as time goes on.

 

Imo, moving on Boeser would be a terrible idea (and that's not just because I have his jersey)

Agree to disagree. I think it would be terrible to move Miller as opposed to Brock. Miller is far more valuable, leaps and bounds ahead of Brock’s “glances” of dominance.

[NHL97OneTimer]

1 minute ago, hammertime said:

No way they give us Boldy alone. Let alone anything additional. 

True.  I don't remember Boldy to be too quick neither.  Am I wrong?

 

The Canucks need size and speed in one player, not two different players.  But a solid D would be a higher priority IMO.

[NHL97OneTimer]

4 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

This isn’t an ea sports game. 
 

 I would suspect the real reason to trade him is that his QO would be 7.5million and his agent would have to be pretty dumb to take anything less. 
 

 I’m not sure that Brock is worth 7.5 million/season in a league where speed has become vital the last 5-10 years and a lot of players aren’t making it past 30-32 anymore. 
 

 

 If we don’t ship off Brock, we lose both Miller and Horvat to make the cap work in the summer. 

I'm not sure you read what I was responding to.  I was saying that we need to trade him (for the reasons you've suggested and more), and others will be interested in him because of the reasons you replied to.