[Signing] Kotkaniemi to Re-Sign on 8 year deal

[Phil_314]

38 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Sure it is. The nearly 6m Brock currently makes is already a  massive over payment. 

 

Brock's stat line lastnight.

 

Rk	Date	Tm		Opp		G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	EV	PP	SH	S	S%	SHFT	TOI	HIT	BLK	FOW	FOL	FO%
1	2022-03-11	VAN		WSH	L-OT	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		22	19:38	0	0	0	0

 

He literally does nothing for 20 mins. 

Not sure if sarcasm... or not realizing it's a small sample size

[hammertime]

1 minute ago, Phil_314 said:

Not sure if sarcasm... or not realizing it's a small sample size

Brocks got 18 even strength points this entire season. 8 count em 8 goals from our elite sniper getting all the cush ice time. 

 

Connor Garland 29 even strength points 13 goals. 

 

Bo Horvat 20 even strength goals

 

Tanner Pearson 11 even strength goals.  

 

Pod 10 even strength goals

 

Hoglander 8 even strength goals

 

Brocks a floater who plays in the soft ice never challenges anyone for a puck, spins off checks he's a glorified PP specialist who quite frankly any number of the guys listed above deserve his minutes. Brocks been having his tires pumped for years. 

 

 

 

[MeanSeanBean]

2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Since this is essentially going to be a pseudo Boeser thread, I've accepted that we need a young, all situation, RHD more than we need Boeser unfortunately.   I'm confident that with the proper utilization,  Hog, Garland and Pod will be able to fill in most of the lost offence while  a young RHD will be critical for the d-group moving forward.  Not saying BB alone will get us that but somehow we need to acquire such an asset.  Git'er done Allvin. 

Counter point. Been listening to the people's show the last few weeks and they are calling cup contending teams checking to see what their deadline accusations should look like. Literally every single team has said a scoring winger. I think Boeser is undervalued for what he does bring, he is something litterally ever team needs, a scoring winger.

[hammertime]

5 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Counter point. Been listening to the people's show the last few weeks and they are calling cup contending teams checking to see what their deadline accusations should look like. Literally every single team has said a scoring winger. I think Boeser is undervalued for what he does bring, he is something litterally ever team needs, a scoring winger.

Yes they will salivate over his 4 career playoff goals.

Edited March 12, 2022 by hammertime

[Bell]

50 minutes ago, khay said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Marc Begevin for drafting Kotkaniemi, making it possible for us to draft Quinn Hughes.

 

Merci beaucoup Marc!

 

This might be the funniest post ever on CDC.  Congrats.

[RWJC]

35 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

Performance bonuses can only be included if the player meets the below criteria.........Boeser does not.

 

1. The player is on an entry-level contract.
2. The player has signed a one-year contract and is over 35 years old.
3. The player has signed a one-year contract after returning from a long-term injury (has played 400 or more games, and spent 100 or more days on the Injured Reserve in the last year of their most recent contract).

Thanks! Much appreciated

[Fanuck]

24 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Counter point. Been listening to the people's show the last few weeks and they are calling cup contending teams checking to see what their deadline accusations should look like. Literally every single team has said a scoring winger. I think Boeser is undervalued for what he does bring, he is something litterally ever team needs, a scoring winger.

I definitely hear you,  but I'm going on the 'build from net out" model and other than Huggy, we got literally no young roster defense capable of contributing meaningful minutes. 

[JeremyCuddles]

This would be an incredible deal for Carolina if true. I still believe in Kotkaniemi's potential. People don't really account for the fact he's still just 21. He still has all the time in the world to reach his potential.

 

Edit: His possession numbers are good, his faceoff percentage is near 50%, he's not afraid to throw his body around. Not a prominent hitter but not non-existent either. His minutes are low and his usage is very favorable. 62% ozone starts. But I mean, our kids are in the 60% ozone range too. So it's not that unusual. I dunno. Good contract, great if he keeps growing his game.

Edited March 12, 2022 by N7Nucks

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

This would be an incredible deal for Carolina if true. I still believe in Kotkaniemi's potential. People don't really account for the fact he's still just 21. He still has all the time in the world to reach his potential.

 

Edit: His possession numbers are good, his faceoff percentage is near 50%, he's not afraid to throw his body around. Not a prominent hitter but not non-existent either. His minutes are low and his usage is very favorable. 62% ozone starts. But I mean, our kids are in the 60% ozone range too. So it's not that unusual. I dunno. Good contract, great if he keeps growing his game.

Yup.  The Canes stole Kotka.  And the Habs are left to build around Cole Caufield.  Which would be fine if building a boy band or a new Mousekateer group. 

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

Yes they will salivate over his 4 career playoff goals.

11 points in 17 games is pretty reasonable for a first time playoff go. Your bias is showing.

[hammertime]

54 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

11 points in 17 games is pretty reasonable for a first time playoff go. Your bias is showing.

5 even strength points is pretty ineffective 

[MeanSeanBean]

25 minutes ago, hammertime said:

5 even strength points is pretty ineffective 

What ever you say. Boeser has a 24 point even str over 82 game record in the playoffs with minimal experience. Millers over 82 is only 32 over his career, and that is greatly bolstered by the fact he has progressed as he ages.

 

 In their first roughly 20 games of playoff experience Boeser has a slightly lower ppg even strength, but higher overall point production. I'm sure no one is trying to argue Miller is ineffective in the playoffs.

 

Boeser wasn't the leader of the team that playoff run, but he's has litterally one opportunity to get to the post season. If that's how you want to judge him that's on you and I'm not gonna bother trying to persuade you otherwise.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Shayster007

[hammertime]

13 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

What ever you say. Boeser has a 24 point even str over 82 game record in the playoffs with minimal experience. Millers over 82 is only 32 over his career, and that is greatly bolstered by the fact he has progressed as he ages.

 

 In their first roughly 20 games of playoff experience Boeser has a slightly lower ppg even strength, but higher overall point production. I'm sure no one is trying to argue Miller is ineffective in the playoffs.

 

Boeser wasn't the leader of the team that playoff run, but he's has litterally one opportunity to get to the post season. If that's how you want to judge him that's on you and I'm not gonna bother trying to persuade you otherwise.

 

 

I judge him by what I see. I see a passenger who is fully reliant on his linemates and deployment to put up points. He really doesn't contribute anything else in any other facet of the game. He isn't a good enough goal scorer to warrant anything north of 5m 

[Darius]

2 hours ago, hammertime said:

Brocks got 18 even strength points this entire season. 8 count em 8 goals from our elite sniper getting all the cush ice time. 

 

Connor Garland 29 even strength points 13 goals. 

 

Bo Horvat 20 even strength goals

 

Tanner Pearson 11 even strength goals.  

 

Pod 10 even strength goals

 

Hoglander 8 even strength goals

 

Brocks a floater who plays in the soft ice never challenges anyone for a puck, spins off checks he's a glorified PP specialist who quite frankly any number of the guys listed above deserve his minutes. Brocks been having his tires pumped for years. 

 

 

 

I understand that BB has holes in his game.  Not fast, doesnt hit, etc etc.   but I dont buy this argument.  Take Pettersson for example. 

 

9 even strength goals, thats barely more than Hoglander, less than Pearson and Podz.  Hes not particularly strong on the puck, doesnt win many board battles, gets pushed around a little more than I would like...are we going to argue that we should give his minutes to Pearson now?

 

Last I checked Petey was 1 point behind BB for production if we combine this season and the last two.  I can find the table and post it if you like, but past 2 seasons in addition to this current season (up to and including the Montreal game)  the total point production went something like Miller first place, Hughes second place, Brock third place, EP fourth, Bo fifth place.  I find it hard to believe that a floater that doesnt deserve minutes and  can be replaced so easily can land in third place on this team when it comes to point production if he was so bad - do we really need to pump his tires?  Thats a pretty big sample size.

 

Not only that, why doesnt Power Play time count?  Isnt the PP part of the game?  Or are we only presenting the numbers that make the player look bad.

 

I realize that Brock can improve in many areas, I just dont think that guys like Hogz and Podkolzin can replace his production. Maybe Podz can one day, but Hogs is a no go for me.  Hes a penalty away from the coach's dog house, and has never really been a good goal scorer at any pro level.  Big teams will maul this team if our primary wingers are 5 foot 10 sub 180 lbs.

 

I think some of you guys zero in on particular guys and are ready to bring out the noose...but if you look at the big picture every player on this team can probably be picked apart the same way.  

 

Brock isnt worth 7.5 million, I agree...but if he agrees to 6-6.5 i think it would be wise to keep him.

 

 

 

 

 

[Canucklehead53]

45 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

What ever you say. Boeser has a 24 point even str over 82 game record in the playoffs with minimal experience. Millers over 82 is only 32 over his career, and that is greatly bolstered by the fact he has progressed as he ages.

 

 In their first roughly 20 games of playoff experience Boeser has a slightly lower ppg even strength, but higher overall point production. I'm sure no one is trying to argue Miller is ineffective in the playoffs.

 

Boeser wasn't the leader of the team that playoff run, but he's has litterally one opportunity to get to the post season. If that's how you want to judge him that's on you and I'm not gonna bother trying to persuade you otherwise.

 

 

Just to stir the pot ... If I remember correctly before the last playoffs I think most media were saying miller is quiet in playoffs. That tone has sure changed now.

 

Now though, I love boeser. I have a boeser jersey even. He kind of represented the start of our teams climb out of rock bottom for me. Other than Bo, the first big piece of our core. 

 

That being said, if cap is an issue he is the one I would be least upset to see go. Not happy but less upset than Bo, Miller, Petey, Quinn or Demko. Especially if we can get a top pairing D man. 

[erkayloomeh]

6 hours ago, JM_ said:

I wonder if we can get that for Garland? e.g., Marino for Garland swap?

I don't know much about Marino but we can't have it all.

Resign Miller. Keep boeser and garland   go get a RHD    stock up on prospects......

Something has to give.   Trading garland sounds like a plan. 

[MeanSeanBean]

2 hours ago, hammertime said:

I judge him by what I see. I see a passenger who is fully reliant on his linemates and deployment to put up points. He really doesn't contribute anything else in any other facet of the game. He isn't a good enough goal scorer to warrant anything north of 5m 

You literally just judged him by stats to start this conversation but then switched to judge by what you see as the reply? Sounds like you just judge to me, hence why I already said your bias is showing.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Shayster007

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, Canucklehead53 said:

Just to stir the pot ... If I remember correctly before the last playoffs I think most media were saying miller is quiet in playoffs. That tone has sure changed now.

 

Now though, I love boeser. I have a boeser jersey even. He kind of represented the start of our teams climb out of rock bottom for me. Other than Bo, the first big piece of our core. 

 

That being said, if cap is an issue he is the one I would be least upset to see go. Not happy but less upset than Bo, Miller, Petey, Quinn or Demko. Especially if we can get a top pairing D man. 

Yeah I'm not particularly quick to jump on a player for not being a playoff performer, peticularly when it was their first go in the post season and they still scored 11 in 17.

[hammertime]

2 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

You literally just judged him by stats to start this conversation but then switched to judge by what you see as the reply? Sounds like you just judge to me, hence why I already said your bias is showing.

I judge by what I see and check to make sure the stats are also supporting what I see. I see a supremely soft player cashing in on tap ins with incredibly padded stats. 

[MeanSeanBean]

3 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I judge by what I see and check to make sure the stats are also supporting what I see. I see a supremely soft player cashing in on tap ins with incredibly padded stats. 

Huh, cause I see a player who was top 15 in puck battles won last year and arguably our best forward. This year has been down, but his play making and net front has vastly improved. I'm not keen on judging 25 year old player on 1 down year. You do you though.