Alflives Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, tas said: the current management sees the contention window in 2 years. Miller Petey Bo is proving to be one hell of a good (awsome actually) centre punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, Alflives said: Miller Petey Bo is proving to be one hell of a good (awsome actually) centre punch. and I don't see an issue giving miller $8-9 mil x 6-8 years because by the middle of that contract the salary cap will have gone up to $90 mil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rackdawg Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Miller Petey Bo is proving to be one hell of a good (awsome actually) centre punch. Do you want your 3 centers taking up. Roughly 25 million in cap space is my worry going forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, Rackdawg said: Do you want your 3 centers taking up. Roughly 25 million in cap space is my worry going forward if they are living up to their AAV's then thats a pretty good place to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete13 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 18 hours ago, kanucks25 said: ... how are those 2 situations in any way comparable lol? Maybe because Doug Wilson is seemingly losing his marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, tas said: and I don't see an issue giving miller $8-9 mil x 6-8 years because by the middle of that contract the salary cap will have gone up to $90 mil. Maybe have gone up; maybe not. The pandemic kicked the crap out of revenue- that by itself could take a few years to get revenue back to "normal" Huge war going on, that is triggering inflation, to the point that quite a few people will likely no longer have the discretionary funds to go to games. Future is murky. I would not sign anyone to longer than 5 years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rackdawg said: Do you want your 3 centers taking up. Roughly 25 million in cap space is my worry going forward down the middle and top d are where you want to allocate your dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, gurn said: Maybe have gone up; maybe not. The pandemic kicked the crap out of revenue- that by itself could take a few years to get revenue back to "normal" Huge war going on, that is triggering inflation, to the point that quite a few people will likely no longer have the discretionary funds to go to games. Future is murky. I would not sign anyone to longer than 5 years. I don't see inflation being significant enough to hurt attendance numbers in a noteworthy way (depending on your economic status, going to a game is either affordable or it isn't -- tickets going up $20 is unlikely to change that), but I do see the inflation as providing the necessary bump, in addition to the new broadcast deal, to bring revenues back to where they need to be in a hurry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 39 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, we're not good enough, even with Miller having career seasons and likely at his peak. And paying for those peak seasons, while he regresses to a middle 6 player, isn't how we get better unfortunately. People seem to be stuck on "not wanting to pay stars" or "hit 30 and it's downhill". That's not what this is about. It's all about timing, windows and opportunity cost. I have zero problem with players in their 30's. I'd have happily seen us sign Pavelski this summer to the short term extension he just signed in Dallas. I have no problem paying Petey, Hughes or Demko on their upcoming extensions, through their primes and in to their early 30's. I do however, have a major problem extending Miller at $9x8, through his declining years, years before our contention window. It's not personal, it's not about him as a player, it's just simple math. OEL is not remotely similar. A similar deal would see us signing Miller from 25-33'ish, at a lower hit (RFA, pre-peak years) That's simply not reality though. Petey and Hughes haven't even entered their primes yet, and Demko is just starting his. Again, even post-Miller, with the right returns and right subsequent moves, there's zero reason we can't be a bubble playoff team again next year. There's no need to "waste" any of their windows (which are barely open a crack at this point). Besides, they probably need a couple warm up laps in the playoffs before we do any real contending anyway. That is exactly why it is a crazy tough decision. A likely cost to competitiveness in the short term (1-2 years) compared to likely costing competitiveness in the medium term (3-5 years). That is the simple equation. I still personally think they should make trades at this deadline if they can get the packages they want... but I also see why that is virtually impossible if the team is this near the playoff bar and won't blame them for not making the moves. The coach and players mostly care about the team's prospects today and tomorrow, not four years from now. The GM has to have a much longer horizon. Miller is a weird paradox in the better be plays, the worse he makes our long term outlook. He is clearly our best skater, so that is really hard to walk away from. Due to his crazy stretch of play and career year, his price tag is likely going to be even more gigantic in both dollars and term, so that is really easy to walk away from and trade him instead. Both things are true at the exact same time. How do you trade him this deadline even for a boatload of assets that could set the team up for years and look Demko/Petterson/Hughes in the eyes and say making us worse for the next two years is worth it? Does that trash the confidence in the room just like letting guys like Tanev, Markstrom, and Toffoli walk (without even giving a contract offer to two of them?). It could definitely have that impact on players who haven't seen much success for this team their entire careers. I think Miller "probably" gets traded, but in the offseason when the team has the chance to make a series of moves to reshape the roster while everyone is away in the summer and not actually playing games. It is easier to see all of those moves/signings as a "package" when training camp starts and sell them to the remaining players... vs. just a big move or two at this deadline which would clearly make us worse for the next 20 games. I also think that the team has a chance to actually be better next year due to those moves, even if you have moved out Miller, Boeser, and Myers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, tas said: the current management sees the contention window in 2 years. Yes, opening in 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, IBatch said: If Millers job is to just get us to the playoffs so these guys get a taste and we don't re-sign him (let him go as a UFA) then that's ok. We get his cap back. Disagree vehemently with this. If we know he's not in the long term plans, we HAVE to get assets back for him. No ifs, ands or buts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: Yes, opening in 2 years. JR did say that before he had a chance to see the team actually fight back into contention for a playoff spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: Disagree vehemently with this. If we know he's not in the long term plans, we HAVE to get assets back for him. No ifs, ands or buts. doesn't have to be this year. I understand the fears of overpaying for him to extend him this summer, but we also know what we're getting. Prospects are nice to have but they are not established players. Bruce loves this guy for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, JM_ said: if they are living up to their AAV's then thats a pretty good place to put it. The question is will he sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, JM_ said: JR did say that before he had a chance to see the team actually fight back into contention for a playoff spot. Their play has been admirable. Doesn't change the obvious holes, structural and succession issues, or cap we need to move out just to retain some of these guys needing new deals. The team is now playing above the expectations of the bubble team they were expected to be. IMO, some if that is playing over their heads, that we've faced a lot of backups, 2nd in back to back games (and likely not opposition's best efforts some nights) etc. Some of that is them playing well (and having Demko). In no way though do I think a veteran exec like Rutherford has confused himself in to thinking we're better than we actually are though or that mid term, there's not a LOT of work to do to sort this roster out, fix the holes and succession issues, retain key youth and the right vet/support players, add key support players, get faster etc... All under the cap. 2 minutes ago, JM_ said: doesn't have to be this year. I understand the fears of overpaying for him to extend him this summer, but we also know what we're getting. Prospects are nice to have but they are not established players. Bruce loves this guy for a reason. We shouldn't be signing him to the deal required to keep him here. Period. If he's even interested in staying in the first place. Ergo, if he's not staying, we need to move him for as much value as we can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, gurn said: Maybe have gone up; maybe not. The pandemic kicked the crap out of revenue- that by itself could take a few years to get revenue back to "normal" Huge war going on, that is triggering inflation, to the point that quite a few people will likely no longer have the discretionary funds to go to games. Future is murky. I would not sign anyone to longer than 5 years. I would if it's a deal that could possibly look better with time. If you get get a player like Bo long term for a cheap AAV, I'd take that risk. Yes his play may fall into his 30s, but if the AAV is a deal it's a risk worth taking if the cap does go up. I wouldn't want to overpay Miller at an older age which is likely what it would take to resign. I would only be looking at long term deals if it's ok sweetheart deals, which I can't see any situation Miller takes. Edited March 17, 2022 by Shayster007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, bad alice french said: The question is will he sign? thats the 70 million dollar question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, aGENT said: Their play has been admirable. Doesn't change the obvious holes, structural we can try to move other players for 3C and d upgrades/better fits. Its far harder to get a 1C. 15 minutes ago, aGENT said: and succession issues, this is the hardest part imo. Yes a boatload of picks and prospects would be great, not sure thats in the cards, not at the a-prospect or top 10 pick level. 15 minutes ago, aGENT said: or cap we need to move out just to retain some of these guys needing new deals. Thats why I'm open to using Hoglander to move Dickie and Poolman to AZ, e.g. Trade Garland and Myers too. All of those guys are easier to replace than a 1C. 15 minutes ago, aGENT said: The team is now playing above the expectations of the bubble team they were expected to be. IMO, some if that is playing over their heads, that we've faced a lot of backups, 2nd in back to back games (and likely not opposition's best efforts some nights) etc. Some of that is them playing well (and having Demko). In no way though do I think a veteran exec like Rutherford has confused himself in to thinking we're better than we actually are though or that mid term, there's not a LOT of work to do to sort this roster out, fix the holes and succession issues, retain key youth and the right vet/support players, add key support players, get faster etc... All under the cap. But who's driving that bus? Miller, Bo, Petey, Hughes, Demko. Thats our core 5. 15 minutes ago, aGENT said: We shouldn't be signing him to the deal required to keep him here. Period. If he's even interested in staying in the first place. Ergo, if he's not staying, we need to move him for as much value as we can. thats a nice circle OK say we overpay by 1.5 mil AAV to keep him. Tell me the opportunity cost and real impact of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 39 minutes ago, aGENT said: Yes, opening in 2 years. it won't be opening in 2 years if you don't retain miller. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 29 minutes ago, tas said: it won't be opening in 2 years if you don't retain miller. That's entirely dependent on what the return for Miller is. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now