Big time disappointment this off-season so far?

[mikeyman109]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

You missed our two picks after?

Soft picks again. No one will mistake Petterson for Scott Stevens or Chris Pronger. and also not just D with Grit we need some size and grit up front. Has Raffi Torres had a kid yet? Lapierre?

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, Heretic said:

Ovi has a Cup.

Ovi has a team....

[mikeyman109]

and Gardener is a fourth round pick. Not holding my breath he will be an Impact player

Edited July 8, 2022 by mikeyman109

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Soft picks again. No one will mistake Petterson for Scott Stevens or Chris Pronger. and also not just D with Grit we need some size and grit up front. Has Raffi Torres had a kid yet? Lapierre?

He is far from soft or small.  Our next pick was a 6'4 center who likes to use his size.

[mikeyman109]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

He is far from soft or small.  Our next pick was a 6'4 center who likes to use his size.

in the fourth round. Excuse me for missing that point How many fourth rounders are impact players? our first two picks were players that are exactly what our team culture has been. So much for the change promised by JR and PA.  again i hope Lekkerimäki. turns out to be a great player but he isnt a change in the way this team had been built.

 

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

in the fourth round. Excuse me for missing that point How many fourth rounders are impact players? our first two picks were players that are exactly what our team culture has been. So much for the change promised by JR and PA.  again i hope Lekkerimäki. turns out to be a great player but he isnt a change in the way this team had been built.

 

You're overreacting.  The veterans are going to be the ones driving the culture and JR will be making his mark over the next month or so.  Go outside or something and have a little patience.

[mikeyman109]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

You're overreacting.  The veterans are going to be the ones driving the culture and JR will be making his mark over the next month or so.  Go outside or something and have a little patience.

WADR, you missed the point Heffy. The veterans arent the ones complaining about the culture. The management group said they wanted to change the culture of the team. Add speed and some grit . they did neither of that in this draft that will impact the club for at least three to four years. Its not the players i Have a problem with its the management saying they wanted to change the culture and then bringing in the same type of players that wont change the culture. My expectation was they would look at a different type of player. Not ask the 18 yr old Swede to change the culture of the dressing room.

[420Fish]

I remember feeling big time disappointment in '82, '94, and 2011. Today did not feel like that.

[Pure961089]

I wonder if the Caps would trade their 1st rounder for Miller.  The kid Ivan Miroshnichenko has a ton of skill but fell in the draft because Hodgkins Lymphoma.  Apparently he’s 100% healthy.  The Caps need a playmaking centre and Ivan Miroshnichenko with a couple more pieces like their 2nd rounder Ryan Chesley, I can see a deal made now.  

Edited July 8, 2022 by Pure961089

[Metal Face Doom]

I see the, "I choose violence" guy has taken over the chat....

[The Lock]

3 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

and as for signing them later on its pretty tough to do when we keep signing little guys for 4 to 5 million each. the cap doesnt allow us to sign anyone at this point.

Size is about surviving the physical element of the Stanley cup Playoffs. Once the whistles get put away its about inflicting your will on the other team and surviving what they do to your team. Size doesn't guarantee success but in 94 we were the biggest team in the league. Once you have your core built you have to find supplementary p[ieces that fit what you need. There are ways to do that thru Free agency but you over pay. Theres the trade route but the other team needs the same skill set you want and unless they have a glut of it arent willing to give you the best players.

The only issue i have with taking the Swede at 15 is they said they were going to change the culture of this team. I hope the kid is a super star in the making but he is more of the same we have seen.

 We needed a top ranked D man. maybe Petterson is the one but i dont expect him to be compared to Scott Stevens any time soon. Pickering or Maveroux might have fit the bill better. But we will move on and hopefully find someone that can play the right side of our D. We are only going to go as far as that will take us.

So I see a few issues with this:

 

1. You're comparing '94 with now, which all evidence shows is that the NHL is a very different game nowadays. There's a reason why certain players (Sydor immediately comes to mind) retired after the lockout of 04-05. The game changes at that point due to the rules changing. You can't compare '94 to now. Well... you can... but not effectively.

 

2. You mention we are too soft to play against in another post in response to me. I'm not going to argue against that in itself; however, I will point out that anyone we draft has about a 15% chance of making the NHL in the 5 years after they are drafted. That's hardly a solution that will alleviate the problem of "being too soft'. Simply put, it doesn't solve the issue. That's why it's best to just draft the best player available in my opinion.

 

3. The same thing can be said for size. You don't get this from the draft. You can, but you shouldn't expect it given the poor odds of it happening. Maybe if you draft 7 massively larged players in a draft? However, then you're missing out on other things you might need. It just doesn't make sense.

 

4. What top ranked D man will we get at 15? There are generally none of those at that point. Sure, maybe a trade will help that, but if the trade still sucks for us we shouldn't just pull that trigger anyway.

 

5. There will likely never be a Scott Stevens in this league again given the new rules in place since he retired. Keep in mind those rules in place now are partially because of his play and are there to prevent his kind of play from happening in the future.  You want Scott Stevens here? Not happening bud. lol.

Edited July 8, 2022 by The Lock

[Dazzle]

10 hours ago, Baratheon said:

I think you're missing the perspective of a lot of fans.  The theory is (whether or not you agree) that Benning made moves to get us in the playoffs (save his job) and hence the short term success that eventually came under BB.  They have confidence in the new regime to fix this shortsightedness and want to be patient with them.  

 

That's just the nutshell version.  Obviously there's pages of more detailed discussion on it.

That's silly. The Canucks did poorly with the best iced roster with Green at the helm. All of this changed when Green and Benning were fired. Truly, Benning being fired could not have resulted in a performance boost. And if so, how would this be measured or quantified? An impossible task really. Rather, the firing of an unproven NHL coach (Green is unproven, given his extensive NHL/AHL seasons with no winning records) led to the hiring of a much more experienced coach in BB. BB coached this same roster to a near playoff spot, despite starting from the bottom of the standings.

 

And given how the lineup had remained largely unchanged during the JR takeover, it is reasonable to say that Benning was blamed for many things, which in some cases were not entirely warranted.

If is illogical to take the opinion that Benning had 'poorly constructed' this team (this was the opinion of Craig Button, who was a fierce defender of Green), while ignoring the fact that this roster was largely unchanged. The difference WAS BB, clearly. That is undeniable.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Dazzle

[Dazzle]

18 hours ago, Laheys Liquor said:

You realize that we acquired Miller on the 2nd day of the draft right? 
How is holding off on a blockbuster trade for the 1st round of the draft a disappointment?

Maybe don't go into it with expectations next time. 

Remember when people thought Benning got ripped off from the MIller trade? Now those same people are expecting the moon from Miller, now that he's had his best season?

 

It's almost like Benning's positive contributions are ignored/downplayed, but his failures are brought to the forefront. This results in a seriously biased discussion that doesn't fairly look at the entire picture.

 

The selecting or 'cherrypicking' of evidence makes a flawed discussion. Seriously, people NEED to know how a logical discussion works. You MUST take into account good AND bad moves in order to arrive at a logical conclusion.

[Bure2Win]

They were trying to get a deal done with NYI but i blew up at the last minute, not they're fault that the islanders were playing cheap.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

That's silly. The Canucks did poorly with the best iced roster with Green at the helm. All of this changed when Green and Benning were fired. Truly, Benning being fired could not have resulted in a performance boost. And if so, how would this be measured or quantified? An impossible task really. Rather, the firing of an unproven NHL coach (Green is unproven, given his extensive NHL/AHL seasons with no winning records) led to the hiring of a much more experienced coach in BB. BB coached this same roster to a near playoff spot, despite starting from the bottom of the standings.

 

And given how the lineup had remained largely unchanged during the JR takeover, it is reasonable to say that Benning was blamed for many things, which in some cases were not entirely warranted.

If is illogical to take the opinion that Benning had 'poorly constructed' this team (this was the opinion of Craig Button, who was a fierce defender of Green), while ignoring the fact that this roster was largely unchanged. The difference WAS BB, clearly. That is undeniable.

I wonder if GMs look at how much improved the club was under BB when they consider Green for even any coaching job?  The way you put it Green was the worst coach ever, which he might have been.  As for Benning.  I will say that he was loyal.  He kept Green, and even extended him.  He supported his guy.  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Bure2Win said:

They were trying to get a deal done with NYI but i blew up at the last minute, not they're fault that the islanders were playing cheap.

A deal for Myers.  But how can anyone blame Lou Lam for going for Romanov?  That’s insane value for 13OA!  Who saw the Habs doing another Sergachev level of stupid deal?   

[Dazzle]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I wonder if GMs look at how much improved the club was under BB when they consider Green for even any coaching job?  The way you put it Green was the worst coach ever, which he might have been.  As for Benning.  I will say that he was loyal.  He kept Green, and even extended him.  He supported his guy.  

Green is not a good coach (AHL or NHL). We do have evidence to support this position. Desjardins was given terrible rosters (no exciting Canuck prospects), and he had a better win record than Green, who was given the likes of Pettersson, Horvat, Demko, Hoglander, and so forth.

 

 

 

												Willie Desjardins
																	Also, Craig Button describes Benning as a GM who "poorly constructed" the core.
																	Button then talks about Green taking away from the strength (offense), which essentially neutralizes whatever Benning was trying to do. How did a "poorly constructed" core become better defensively AFTER BB? It's the same group of people, minus Travis Hamonic.   Clearly, the core wasn't really the problem, but the coach who had zero clue how to deploy its players. We saw this with the poor preseason + early season performances. How did BB turn a bottom feeding team a total 180 degrees?

 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Dazzle

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

Green is not a good coach (AHL or NHL). We do have evidence to support this position. Desjardins was given terrible rosters (no exciting Canuck prospects), and he had a better win record than Green, who was given the likes of Pettersson, Horvat, Demko, Hoglander, and so forth.

 

 

 

												Willie Desjardins
																	Also, Craig Button describes Benning as a GM who "poorly constructed" the core.
																	Button then talks about Green taking away from the strength (offense), which essentially neutralizes whatever Benning was trying to do. How is that a "poorly constructed" core became better defensively AFTER BB? It's the same group of people, minus Travis Hamonic.

 

 

Considering how bad Green was maybe we should be keeping (pretty much) this roster in tact and giving BB a run with them from game #1?  

[Baratheon]

18 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

That's silly. The Canucks did poorly with the best iced roster with Green at the helm. All of this changed when Green and Benning were fired. Truly, Benning being fired could not have resulted in a performance boost. And if so, how would this be measured or quantified? An impossible task really. Rather, the firing of an unproven NHL coach (Green is unproven, given his extensive NHL/AHL seasons with no winning records) led to the hiring of a much more experienced coach in BB. BB coached this same roster to a near playoff spot, despite starting from the bottom of the standings.

 

And given how the lineup had remained largely unchanged during the JR takeover, it is reasonable to say that Benning was blamed for many things, which in some cases were not entirely warranted.

If is illogical to take the opinion that Benning had 'poorly constructed' this team (this was the opinion of Craig Button, who was a fierce defender of Green), while ignoring the fact that this roster was largely unchanged. The difference WAS BB, clearly. That is undeniable.

No you misunderstood me.  I was not saying that BB doesn't deserve credit.  Absolutely he does.  Simply that the success that has come under him is (so far) short term.  You can credit Benning for building the team that was eventually successful and that's fine.  It doesn't necessarily mean that he made moves that set us up for long term success.  

 

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

Where are the posts that show what we did ? Did we trade or receive any roster players in the last few days ? Where is the Pete defensman thread ?