[Signing] Canucks sign Ilya Mikheyev

[tas]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

No its really not. 

 

Of the 10-15 players making 6-7M between the ages of 24-27 I betcha can't find more than 3 players that make Boes contract look reasonable by comparison. 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active?stats-season=2022&pg=2

 

Go ahead cherry pick some players whatcha got? Monahan, and then .................? 

what if you find guys who are older than 27 but who were on the same contract when they were in that range? what if you check older guys' previous contracts?

Edited July 20, 2022 by tas

[Spoosh]

10 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

The problem with Beoser is he’s a one trick pony; plays a 100’ game. So, when he isn’t scoring at a big clip, he’s a liability. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with your points about value and such, but we don’t have cap space to overpay guys with fingers crossed. For me, I’d rather use that $$ on guys that have lead our team in last couple years.

That is not correct. He does a lot of things right out there and can produce. With the years we’ve had here, what he has been fighting through and all he has been good and he’ll be much better with a big chunk of that stuff progressing in the right way for him now.

 

People here just like new shiny stuff and don’t value what we have. I for one am very happy to have him here and wish he’ll stay for a long time.

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, tas said:

what if you find guys who are older than 27 but who were on the same contract when they were in that range? what if you check older guys' previous contracts?

This is the cap climate now. You're grasping straws. Timo Meir is probably the best comparable as they signed their last contracts at the hip with the heavy QO's. Meir has vastly out performed Brock in every way on a terrible sharks team. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by hammertime

[Bobby James]

19 hours ago, Alflives said:

Sorry to break it to you, but actually Garland (with his contract) is craperolla.  If we could have dumperooed him to clear cap we would have.  Just another example of the many terrible contracts.  

Alf? What's going on dude? What did Garland do to you? 

He's a good player and for the most part it seems everyone likes the guy and what he brings. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Bobby James

[tas]

2 hours ago, hammertime said:

This is the cap climate now. You're grasping straws. Timo Meir is probably the best comparable as they signed their last contracts at the hip with the heavy QO's. Meir has vastly out performed Brock in every way on a terrible sharks team. 

I'm not grasping, I'm just accusing you of not being very thorough and having poor methodology that won't yield any worthwhile info. 

[-AJ-]

15 hours ago, hammertime said:

Pasternak 26yo 6.66m 40 goals 77 points

Nylander 26yo 6.9M 34goals 80 points 

Reinhart  26yo 6.5m 33g 82 points

Debrincat 24yo 6.4m 41g 78 points

 

Brock 25yo 6.65m  23g 46points 

 

I could go on Mackinnon, Nichushkin, Larkin, Barzal, Guentzel, Meir basically any and all of Brocks peers (24-27yo) making close to his money are considerably better players with Monahan being the one exception 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active?stats-season=2022&pg=2

 

I'd like to see 35g and 70+ points 

 

4 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I think its important to note the production before the signature for a more tailored comparison.

 

For example;

MacKinnon wasnt even close to a PPG his first 4 years 

Reinhart just blew up this year, before this year he was producing around Boeser's level, even a tad less

Nylander's production's been quite meh his entire career until this year. 

 

Let's maybe give Brock a chance and the benefit of the doubt and recognize that :

-he's shown us how talented he is, and how much of a fit he is on this team both on the ice and in the locker room

-his father was dying the last 2 years, the mental charge of that alone is astonishing 

-his back broke in his rookie season and he's struggled to get back into form

 

He will be who we know he can be sooner rather than later. He's shown glimpses. He was our leading scorer in 2021 ffs. 

Not only do you have to note the production/state of the player prior to the contract signing, but you have to consider cap inflation:

 

Pastrnak's contract was 8.89% of the cap, $7.33M in 2022

Nylander's contract was 8.76% of the cap, $7.23M in 2022

Reinhart's contract was 7.98% of the cap, $6.58M in 2022

Debrincat's contract was 7.85% of the cap. $6.48M in 2022

 

Again, what @HorvatToBaertschi says is an even more important point--considering where they were at when signing the contract. Anachronism when looking at old contracts is one of my pet peeves.

 

[hammertime]

3 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

Not only do you have to note the production/state of the player prior to the contract signing, but you have to consider cap inflation:

 

Pastrnak's contract was 8.89% of the cap, $7.33M in 2022

Nylander's contract was 8.76% of the cap, $7.23M in 2022

Reinhart's contract was 7.98% of the cap, $6.58M in 2022

Debrincat's contract was 7.85% of the cap. $6.48M in 2022

 

Again, what @HorvatToBaertschi says is an even more important point--considering where they were at when signing the contract. Anachronism when looking at old contracts is one of my pet peeves.

 

So all within 600k of Brocks cap hit. Yep not comparable at all.

Edited July 20, 2022 by hammertime

[-AJ-]

Just now, hammertime said:

So all within 600k of Brocks cap hit. 

Pastrnak's is a bit more, but as I said, I think the much larger point is what @HorvatToBaertschi says about considering where they were at when they signed their contracts. As hard as it is, you have to remember that we didn't know all these guys would become what they have right now. A more fair evaluation would be to look at guys with similar percentages of the cap hit (around 8.00%) and go back in time to look at their careers up to that point.

 

Looking at Pastrnak now and claiming that he's a 7.33M (w/ cap inflation) player is ridiculous and doesn't consider what the GM at the time actually had to consider in signing him. When Pastrnak was signed, he had one season of 34 goals and 70 points in 75 games--his other two seasons he was a middle six forward. To be fair, you have to avoid using hindsight to your advantage and thinking of the 40+ goal Pastrnak. He was signed as a young kid with only one strong season under his belt. It was a gamble that paid off.

[hammertime]

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Pastrnak's is a bit more, but as I said, I think the much larger point is what @HorvatToBaertschi says about considering where they were at when they signed their contracts. As hard as it is, you have to remember that we didn't know all these guys would become what they have right now. A more fair evaluation would be to look at guys with similar percentages of the cap hit (around 8.00%) and go back in time to look at their careers up to that point.

 

Looking at Pastrnak now and claiming that he's a 7.33M (w/ cap inflation) player is ridiculous and doesn't consider what the GM at the time actually had to consider in signing him. When Pastrnak was signed, he had one season of 34 goals and 70 points in 75 games--his other two seasons he was a middle six forward. To be fair, you have to avoid using hindsight to your advantage and thinking of the 40+ goal Pastrnak. He was signed as a young kid with only one strong season under his belt. It was a gamble that paid off.

So can we compare them after this season then? I guess we will see I sure hope he puts up 35g and 70+ points this year. I'll eat all the crow with a smile on my face. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

3 minutes ago, hammertime said:

So can we compare them after this season then? I guess we will see I sure hope he puts up 35g and 70+ points this year. I'll eat all the crow with a smile on my face. 

I think comparing them after this season is much more fair than comparing them right now. Pastrnak's contract is a bit of an anomaly no matter how you look at it, but I think that speaks more on the brilliant internal cap that Boston established years ago with Marchand Chara and Bergeron (and suddenly threw out of the window with McAvoy, who's a hell of a player in his own right and earned that payday).

Edited July 20, 2022 by HorvatToBaertschi

[hammertime]

20 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I think comparing them after this season is much more fair than comparing them right now. Pastrnak's contract is a bit of an anomaly no matter how you look at it, but I think that speaks more on the brilliant internal cap that Boston established years ago with Marchand Chara and Bergeron (and suddenly threw out of the window with McAvoy, who's a hell of a player in his own right and earned that payday).

Sure I'm looking forward to making a full apology to Brock and all the fanboys out there. Also looking forward to hearing all the excuses when it turns out he's the same soft slow 20-30 goal scorer 45-60 point half of which come on the PP player he has always been. Hopefully he doesn't get injured again so he can finally prove himself and you right. I just want the Canucks to win and I just don't see Brock as a guy doing what it takes to win when the competition gets stiff. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by hammertime

[48MPHSlapShot]

I see the EddieVedder virus is spreading. 

[Westcoastcanucks777]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I see the EddieVedder virus is spreading. 

We need a vax

[CanucksJay]

10 hours ago, hammertime said:

No its really not. 

 

Of the 10-15 players making 6-7M between the ages of 24-27 I betcha can't find more than 3 players that make Boes contract look reasonable by comparison. 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active?stats-season=2022&pg=2

 

Go ahead cherry pick some players whatcha got? Monahan, and then .................? 

LOL I don't need to do any additional research but when you are comparing Brock's worst year of his career where he had extra baggage like his father's illness and death and then you want to compare him to his peers in the similar age group making similar money, you are already putting Brock in a position to fail. 

If you really want to do that exercise, why don't you take the year before (when he didn't have to deal with his father's death) when he finished top 30 in scoring, and do the same comparison? 

If you feel like a top 30 scorer in the league doesn't deserve 6.65m, nothing will convince you. 

[ButterBean]

21 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

I'm also curious to see if perhaps Bo might find some chemistry with Kuzmenko. So far Pearson has been the guy Bo plays best with, but he's not a big goal scorer or point getter on his own.

I think having bigger guys on the wing benefits Horvats game well. Guys who are strong on their skates and can protect the puck. Gives Bo much more room to work when he’s not the only one drawing defenders. Kuzmenko - Bo - Pod is a potentional intriguing line.

[hammertime]

34 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

LOL I don't need to do any additional research but when you are comparing Brock's worst year of his career where he had extra baggage like his father's illness and death and then you want to compare him to his peers in the similar age group making similar money, you are already putting Brock in a position to fail. 

If you really want to do that exercise, why don't you take the year before (when he didn't have to deal with his father's death) when he finished top 30 in scoring, and do the same comparison? 

If you feel like a top 30 scorer in the league doesn't deserve 6.65m, nothing will convince you. 

What I really want is Brock to live up to his contract. I want him to play with some huevos he's 210lbs plays but plays 160. He is so pillowy soft it's infuriating to watch he's got 143 hits in his entire 5 and a bit year career Petes got more 165 in 1 fewer seasons I don't expect him to be Luke Schenn out there 273 hits last year alone but at least don't play touch hockey out there. It's not da beauty league. No wonder on our playoff run Bo put up 10 goals and our goal scorer golden boy had 4. I want a cup in vancouver and we cant do that if we are paying 6.65m for a guy afraid to make physical contact with anyone on the ice. 

 

Show some emotion is all I ask. I wouldn't care if he never scored 30 as long as he wasn't such an easy assignment. 

 

[hammertime]

58 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

So you're suggesting someone should give him the "Tryamkin Special" private screening of Pronger videos?  

I'd be happy with Anders Lee videos. 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by hammertime

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

What I really want is Brock to live up to his contract. I want him to play with some huevos he's 210lbs plays but plays 160. He is so pillowy soft it's infuriating to watch he's got 143 hits in his entire 5 and a bit year career Petes got more 165 in 1 fewer seasons I don't expect him to be Luke Schenn out there 273 hits last year alone but at least don't play touch hockey out there. It's not da beauty league. No wonder on our playoff run Bo put up 10 goals and our goal scorer golden boy had 4. I want a cup in vancouver and we cant do that if we are paying 6.65m for a guy afraid to make physical contact with anyone on the ice. 

 

Show some emotion is all I ask. I wouldn't care if he never scored 30 as long as he wasn't such an easy assignment. 

 

So you want him to be a power forward when he is a skilled scorer based on his weight? 

Dude, you're like TG trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. 

Once you accept that our brass' expectation of Brock is to be a scoring forward who does it with his shot by finding soft spots on the ice, you'll be much happier. 

My honest expectation of Brock to live up to his contract is a 65-70 pt forward without being a liability on defense. His weight can be used to not be knocked off the puck easily. 

 

Truth is he might not hit 70 pts. Then I would say he has been a disappointment. All this other junk about expecting him to throw his weight around is a ridiculously poor expectation that will only bring disappointment. 

[hammertime]

6 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

So you want him to be a power forward when he is a skilled scorer based on his weight? 

Dude, you're like TG trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. 

Once you accept that our brass' expectation of Brock is to be a scoring forward who does it with his shot by finding soft spots on the ice, you'll be much happier. 

My honest expectation of Brock to live up to his contract is a 65-70 pt forward without being a liability on defense. His weight can be used to not be knocked off the puck easily. 

 

Truth is he might not hit 70 pts. Then I would say he has been a disappointment. All this other junk about expecting him to throw his weight around is a ridiculously poor expectation that will only bring disappointment. 

Why? Why should he be allowed to play like its a friendly game of shinny on the lake with 12 yearolds. Why should we as fans accept this level of effort. 

[CanucksJay]

7 hours ago, hammertime said:

Why? Why should he be allowed to play like its a friendly game of shinny on the lake with 12 yearolds. Why should we as fans accept this level of effort. 

Because that's not his game? 

Not playing physical is not the same as playing pond hockey. 

Brock still has to play reliable defense. 

This example is a stretch as I'm comparing some of the greats of all time but basically you are asking Scott Neiedemeyer and Lidstrom to play like Scott Stevens.

Or if you are just looking at size, you are asking Mario Lemieux to play like Eric Lindros. 

 

Brock is absolutely expected to backcheck and play a 2 way game while putting up 65+ pts. The other part regarding hitting is just stupid.