(discussion) With stats/facts to back it up, explain where you think our d group ranks.

[Drakrami]

11 hours ago, Master Mind said:

We' haven't had good drafting/development on defense for almost our entire franchise's existence.

 

To pick on Gillis, when Benning is the most recent predecessor and therefore the GM that contributed the most to our currently empty pipeline, is very questionable.

 

As is saying Benning successfully drafted several good defensemen. In 8 years he drafted one for sure in Hughes with a top seven pick. Maybe Rathbone becomes the second, but that's hardly several.

Exactly. And people fail to see Benning was here for 8 freaking years. If he was so good at drafting, he coulda drafted his own players in the first 1-4 years and enter the league at during the final of 4-8 years. It did not happen, because that's not what it is. Instead of seeing the truth, just keep on blaming Gillis, thumbs up. 

[King Loui]

2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Why is this apparently on Benning, meanwhile Gillis gets a free pass for:

 

1) not drafting an NHL goaltender with any pick

2) not drafting an NHL defenseman with any pick

3) not being to replace Edler, who was drafted well before Gillis did

4) no succession plan after the Sedins

5) being only able to draft with two of his first round picks, and not even all of them that he had. Gaunce and Jensen were total flubs. The missing depth from the 2nd round to 7th round picks. Yikes.

 

My point is that you're missing these players from this period that would've helped for the next GM.

All you're doing is arguing the drafting pedigree between two guys, one who's job was to trade draft picks away and focus on getting to the cup final(which he did) vs a guy who finished bottom 5 every year for 7 years and who's job specifically was to draft 

 

1.  Don't really need to draft goalies when you have Luongo, Schneider and Lack in the system.  Plus traded Luongo for another elite goalie then traded Schneider for our Captain.

2.  Found Chris Tanev

3.  Couldn't replace Edler I guess that's correct?

4.  Fired for wanting to rebuild with the Sedins

5. Benning's depth from rounds 2-7 eight years in.... Demko.  

 

Check out these beauties

 

Juolevi (5th)

Virtanen (6th)

Baertschi (53rd)

Vey (50th)

Gadjovich (55th)

Lind (33rd)

Woo (34th)

Gudbranson  (38th) + (McCann) 

Hoglander now dwindling 

 

Do you know we've made just one 2nd round selection and one 1st round selection in the last 3 years.   We're cap strapped, with no prospects and just finished outside the playoff picture again  #draftgod 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, King Loui said:

All you're doing is arguing the drafting pedigree between two guys, one who's job was to trade draft picks away and focus on getting to the cup final(which he did) vs a guy who finished bottom 5 every year for 7 years and who's job specifically was to draft 

 

1.  Don't really need to draft goalies when you have Luongo, Schneider and Lack in the system.  Plus traded Luongo for another elite goalie then traded Schneider for our Captain.

2.  Found Chris Tanev

3.  Couldn't replace Edler I guess that's correct?

4.  Fired for wanting to rebuild with the Sedins

5. Benning's depth from rounds 2-7 eight years in.... Demko.  

 

Check out these beauties

 

Juolevi (5th)

Virtanen (6th)

Baertschi (53rd)

Vey (50th)

Gadjovich (55th)

Lind (33rd)

Woo (34th)

Gudbranson  (38th) + (McCann) 

Hoglander now dwindling 

 

Do you know we've made just one 2nd round selection and one 1st round selection in the last 3 years.   We're cap strapped, with no prospects and just finished outside the playoff picture again  #draftgod 

 

 

 

Yup.  The Gillis era had our best teams ever.  The new management actually reminds me of the Gillis era in that they are forward thinking.  They are trying to clean up the Benning mess while building a support group for the current key core pieces.  JR has said several times we have three key guys: Hughes, Petey, Demko.  

[Guest]

.

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by VancouverHabitant

[Harold Drunken]

22 hours ago, JM_ said:

I'm always worried with that college to AHL jump, keep your head up kids. 

Yup, that's why your AHL affiliate exists, it's to develop and prospects are so important and we've done a terrible job at that for a very long time. That's what it's there for, not many players are ready to jump to the NHL level so soon. Some do but that's rare talent. We need to stop rushing prospects in, albeit it's been largely out of necessity and lack of talent that's the reason for rushing them. Rathbone was PPG last year, the defensive side will come with coaching and guidance...hard work of course.

 

Defenseman who are offensively talented and can quarterback powerplays don't grow on trees. Rathbone is not expendable....yet. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

On 7/17/2022 at 11:27 AM, ilduce39 said:

Great thread if all it does is throw some water on the narrative / perception that we have the worst defence in the league. 
 

I agree with the idea that they’re overpaid - but I’m not sure it’s not as extreme as some of the figures say.  Sure looks like D aren’t going for a bargain these days.
 

Hoping that this group can keep it up with maybe a little boost from a healthy Poolman and adding Rathbone.  Then a more consistent year from our deeper forward group.  

I feel like an better acclimated Dermott, a motivated Burroughs and Rathbone are likely to have a bigger impact than Poolman ever will. I just don't see him making the roster next year, don't see any reason why we would start him over say Burroughs other than cap hit. Who knows, maybe he comes in and looks like a different player.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:40 AM, gurn said:

He is a better skater than the other d men- other than Rathbone.

He was asked to play forward because he was the best option on forward- not because he was the worst D man.

Actually not true, if you look at some of the quotes from the coach at the time they will essentially contradict this. Note: he was basically benched at the time.

 

It's well documented Woo has struggled to date with his development.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

I feel like an better acclimated Dermott, a motivated Burroughs and Rathbone are likely to have a bigger impact than Poolman ever will. I just don't see him making the roster next year, don't see any reason why we would start him over say Burroughs other than cap hit. Who knows, maybe he comes in and looks like a different player.

I'm wondering if they will try Dermott and Myers again. Very small sample size but not bad numbers (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/pairings.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=VAN&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410)

 

Maybe, if Dermott is capable of being the more defensive partner, we can get more out of Myers? or if not, surely we can find a stay at home left side replacement fairly easily while Rathbone percolates a bit more in the AHL. 

 

Just wondering if we can get more out of this group by making some adjustments in the bottom pairings -

 

Hughes-Schenn

OEL-Poolman

Dermott/replacement-Myers 

 

At leasts this way the offensive d men are working from their strengths. 

[Harold Drunken]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I'm wondering if they will try Dermott and Myers again. Very small sample size but not bad numbers (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/pairings.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=VAN&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410)

 

Maybe, if Dermott is capable of being the more defensive partner, we can get more out of Myers? or if not, surely we can find a stay at home left side replacement fairly easily while Rathbone percolates a bit more in the AHL. 

 

Just wondering if we can get more out of this group by making some adjustments in the bottom pairings -

 

Hughes-Schenn

OEL-Poolman

Dermott/replacement-Myers 

 

At leasts this way the offensive d men are working from their strengths. 

It will be interesting for sure, I'm strictly going by what I saw last year out of Poolman- I watched him closely because of that contract haha. He just did not look comfortable at all with the puck on this stick. His passes were not good and he bobbled the puck quite a bit. Defensively, he was pretty decent at times, when available. As you said, if will be interesting to see how they shuffle, safe to say they will to try and get more out of this group that way. Rathbone would 100% need a very sturdy defensive partner...but I agree maybe another year in Abby for him to really light it up and work on his overall game. Hughes and Schenn feels like the only thing close to a lock lol.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

It will be interesting for sure, I'm strictly going by what I saw last year out of Poolman- I watched him closely because of that contract haha. He just did not look conformable at all with the puck on this stick. His passes were not good and he bobbled the puck quite a bit. Defensively, he was pretty decent at times, when available. As you said, if will be interesting to see how they shuffle, safe to say they will to try and get more out of this group that way. Rathbone would 100% need a very sturdy defensive partner...but I agree maybe another year in Abby for him to really light it up and work on his overall game. Hughes and Schenn feels like the only thing close to a lock lol.

I'm wondering about someone like De Haan who is still out there. What if we could get him on ~1.5 mil per? 

 

Maybe someone like that who is good in our end, but not any kind of offensive threat is the right guy for Myers?

 

Interesting write up on him here: https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2021/6/29/22553139/chicago-blackhawks-calvin-de-haan-expansion-draft-bait-defenseman-blue-line-nhl-2021

 

[ilduce39]

11 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

I feel like an better acclimated Dermott, a motivated Burroughs and Rathbone are likely to have a bigger impact than Poolman ever will. I just don't see him making the roster next year, don't see any reason why we would start him over say Burroughs other than cap hit. Who knows, maybe he comes in and looks like a different player.

I remember Poolman looking good in pre season and then playing terrible to start the year.  Then I don’t remember him at all beyond he seems to struggle in the offensive zone.
 

I’ve read he played better as the year went on before he got hurt but I honestly don’t remember it at all. I’ve also heard reports current management is high on him. On paper a big, mobile defensive - minded guy sounds great.  But yeah does he bring more than Burroughs?  Some people seem to think so but I dunno. 

[Harold Drunken]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

I'm wondering about someone like De Haan who is still out there. What if we could get him on ~1.5 mil per? 

 

Maybe someone like that who is good in our end, but not any kind of offensive threat is the right guy for Myers?

 

Interesting write up on him here: https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2021/6/29/22553139/chicago-blackhawks-calvin-de-haan-expansion-draft-bait-defenseman-blue-line-nhl-2021

 

Yeah he'd be a good veteran player to look at. I feel like we could have made a player like Jan Rutta from Tampa work at $2.75 or Collin Miller at $1.75. We'll need to make a trade to free up cap either way so I feel like a trade more likely. I don't think Myers is the offensive player he once was, I feel like him playing with an offensively minded player may be better for him. 

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Yeah he'd be a good veteran player to look at. I feel like we could have made a player like Jan Rutta from Tampa work at $2.75 or Collin Miller at $1.75. We'll need to make a trade to free up cap either way so I feel like a trade more likely. I don't think Myers is the offensive player he once was, I feel like him playing with an offensively minded player may be better for him. 

just kind of floating balloons, wondering if its maybe easier to find a better fit for Myers than OEL. Not that I don't like OEL but his offensive production suffers being the more responsible partner. 

 

I guess that could be what Allvin is attempting with the Dermott reclamation project? 

[Viper007]

10 hours ago, King Loui said:

All you're doing is arguing the drafting pedigree between two guys, one who's job was to trade draft picks away and focus on getting to the cup final(which he did) vs a guy who finished bottom 5 every year for 7 years and who's job specifically was to draft 

 

1.  Don't really need to draft goalies when you have Luongo, Schneider and Lack in the system.  Plus traded Luongo for another elite goalie then traded Schneider for our Captain.

2.  Found Chris Tanev

3.  Couldn't replace Edler I guess that's correct?

4.  Fired for wanting to rebuild with the Sedins

5. Benning's depth from rounds 2-7 eight years in.... Demko.  

 

Check out these beauties

 

Juolevi (5th)

Virtanen (6th)

Baertschi (53rd)

Vey (50th)

Gadjovich (55th)

Lind (33rd)

Woo (34th)

Gudbranson  (38th) + (McCann) 

Hoglander now dwindling 

 

Do you know we've made just one 2nd round selection and one 1st round selection in the last 3 years.   We're cap strapped, with no prospects and just finished outside the playoff picture again  #draftgod 

 

 

 

You're moving goalposts I see.  Isn't this regarding drafting?  Benning didn't draft Baertschi, Vey, Gudbranson.  If you're going to compare trading also, Gillis made some very awful trades as well.  But again this was about drafting.

 

Almost all those players named actually played in the NHL.  Gillis drafting, not very many have even played any games in the NHL.  

 

Mike Gillis

Players Drafted: 37

NHL Games Played: 2166 (7 players with 50+ games)

 

Jim Benning

Players Drafted: 54

NHL Game Played: 2542 (11 players with 50+ games, plus more to come)

 

So if you guy by NHL games played by draft picks, which usually is the determining factor whether the player drafted was a good pick or not, Benning is by far better.

 

NHL games for Benning players drafted 2nd round or later = 904 games and counting.

NHL games for Gillis players drafted 2nd round or later = 922 (Hutton and Connauton are the only players that will add to this total).

 

 

2021 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2021 Entry	41	2	Danila Klimovich	R	Minsk Dynamo [Belarus]
2021 Entry	137	5	Aku Koskenvuo	G	HIFK [Finland Jr.]
2021 Entry	140	5	Jonathan Myrenberg	D	Linkoping HC Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2021 Entry	169	6	Hugo Gabrielson	D	Vastra Frolunda Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2021 Entry	178	6	Connor Lockhart	C	Erie Otters [OHL]
2021 Entry	201	7	Lucas Forsell	L	Farjestads Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2020 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2020 Entry	82	3	Joni Jurmo	D	Jokerit Jrs. (Finland)
2020 Entry	113	4	Jackson Kunz	L	Shattuck St. Mary's (Minn. H.S.)
2020 Entry	144	5	Jacob Truscott	D	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
2020 Entry	175	6	Dmitry Zlodeyev	C	Dynamo Moscow Jrs. (Russia)
2020 Entry	191	7	Viktor Persson	D	Brynas Jrs. (Sweden)
2019 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	10	1	Vasili Podkolzin	R	St. Petersburg [Russia Jr.]	79	14	12	26	26
2019 Entry	40	2	Nils Hoglander	L	Rogle BK Angelholm [SweHL]	116	23	22	45	40
2019 Entry	122	4	Ethan Keppen	L	Flint Firebirds [OHL]
2019 Entry	133	5	Carson Focht	C	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2019 Entry	156	6	Arturs Silovs	G	Riga [Russia Jrs.]
2019 Entry	175	6	Karel Plasek	L	Brno Kometa [Czech]
2019 Entry	180	6	Jack Malone	R	Youngstown Phantoms [USHL]
2019 Entry	195	7	Aidan Mcdonough	L	Cedar Rapids RoughRiders [USHL]
2019 Entry	215	7	Arvid Costmar	C	Linkoping [Sweden Jrs.]
2018 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2018 Entry	7	1	Quinn Hughes	D	U. of Michigan [Big-10]	205	19	146	165	74
2018 Entry	37	2	Jett Woo	D	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]
2018 Entry	68	3	Tyler Madden	C	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2018 Entry	130	5	Toni Utunen	D	Leki-2 (Finland Jrs.)
2018 Entry	186	6	Artem Manukyan	F	Omsk-2 (Russia Jrs.)
2018 Entry	192	7	Matthew Thiessen	G	Steinbach Pistons [MJHL]
2017 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017 Entry	5	1	Elias Pettersson	C	Timra IK [Swe-1]	245	97	124	221	48
2017 Entry	33	2	Kole Lind	R	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]	30	2	6	8	12
2017 Entry	55	2	Jonah Gadjovich	L	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]	44	1	2	3	91
2017 Entry	64	3	Michael DiPietro	G	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]	3	0	0	0	0
2017 Entry	95	4	Jack Rathbone	D	Dexter School [Mass. H.S.]	17	1	2	3	2
2017 Entry	135	5	Kristoffer Gunnarsson	D	Frolunda HC [SweHL]
2017 Entry	181	6	Petrus Palmu	R	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]
2017 Entry	188	7	Matt Brassard	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	5	1	Olli Juolevi	D	London Knights [OHL]	41	2	1	3	6
2016 Entry	64	3	William Lockwood	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	15	0	0	0	11
2016 Entry	140	5	Cole Candella	D	Hamilton Bulldogs [OHL]
2016 Entry	154	6	Jakob Stukel	L	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2016 Entry	184	7	Rodrigo Abols	C	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2016 Entry	194	7	Brett McKenzie	L	North Bay Battalion [OHL]
2015 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	23	1	Brock Boeser	R	Waterloo Black Hawks [USHL]	324	121	135	256	88
2015 Entry	66	3	Guillaume Brisebois	D	Acadie-Bathurst Titan [QMJHL]	10	0	0	0	0
2015 Entry	114	4	Dmitry Zhukenov	C	Omsk Jrs. (Russia)
2015 Entry	144	5	Carl Neill	D	Sherbrooke Phoenix [QMJHL]
2015 Entry	149	5	Adam Gaudette	C	Cedar Rapids RoughRiders [USHL]	218	27	43	70	84
2015 Entry	174	6	Lukas Jasek	R	Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech]
2015 Entry	210	7	Tate Olson	D	Prince George Cougars [WHL]
2014 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2014 Entry	6	1	Jake Virtanen	R	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]	317	55	45	100	219
2014 Entry	24	1	Jared McCann	L	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	427	93	112	205	155
2014 Entry	36	2	Thatcher Demko	G	Boston College [H-East]	136	0	3	3	2
2014 Entry	66	3	Nikita Tryamkin	D	Yekaterinburg Automobilist [KHL]	79	3	8	11	74
2014 Entry	126	5	Gustav Forsling	D	Linkoping (Sweden Jrs.)	236	23	58	81	68
2014 Entry	156	6	Kyle Pettit	C	Erie Otters [OHL]
2014 Entry	186	7	Mackenze Stewart	D	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]
2013 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2013 Entry	9	1	Bo Horvat	C	London Knights [OHL]	572	170	196	366	188
2013 Entry	24	1	Hunter Shinkaruk	L	Medicine Hat Tigers [WHL]	15	2	2	4	4
2013 Entry	85	3	Cole Cassels	C	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2013 Entry	115	4	Jordan Subban	D	Belleville Bulls [OHL]
2013 Entry	145	5	Anton Cederholm	D	Rogle Jrs. (Sweden)
2013 Entry	175	6	Mike Williamson	D	Spruce Grove Saints [AJHL]
2013 Entry	205	7	Miles Liberati	D	London Knights [OHL]
2012 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2012 Entry	26	1	Brendan Gaunce	C	Belleville Bulls [OHL]	148	11	12	23	59
2012 Entry	57	2	Alexandre Mallet	C	Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL]
2012 Entry	147	5	Ben Hutton	D	Nepean Raiders [CCHL]	437	19	85	104	168
2012 Entry	177	6	Wesley Myron	F	Victoria Grizzlies [BCHL]
2012 Entry	207	7	Matthew Beattie	R	Exeter [N.H. H.S.]
2011 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2011 Entry	29	1	Nicklas Jensen	R	Oshawa Generals [OHL]	31	3	3	6	10
2011 Entry	71	3	David Honzik	G	Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL]
2011 Entry	90	3	Alexandre Grenier	R	Quebec Remparts [QMJHL]	9	0	0	0	2
2011 Entry	101	4	Joseph LaBate	L	Holy Angels Academy (Minn.)	13	0	0	0	21
2011 Entry	120	4	Ludwig Blomstrand	L	Djurgardens Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2011 Entry	150	5	Frankie Corrado	D	Sudbury Wolves [OHL]	76	3	5	8	40
2011 Entry	180	6	Pathrik Westerholm	L	Malmo Redhawks [Swe-1]
2011 Entry	210	7	Henrik Tommernes	D	Frolunda HC [SEL]
2010 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2010 Entry	115	4	Patrick McNally	D	Milton Academy [Mass.]
2010 Entry	145	5	Adam Polasek	D	Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL]
2010 Entry	172	6	Alex Friesen	C	Niagara IceDogs [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0
2010 Entry	175	6	Jonathan Iilahti	G	Blues Jrs (Finland)
2010 Entry	205	7	Sawyer Hannay	D	Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL]
2009 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2009 Entry	22	1	Jordan Schroeder	L	U. of Minnesota [WCHA]	165	18	24	42	14
2009 Entry	53	2	Anton Rodin	R	Brynas Jr. [Swe-Jr]	3	0	1	1	0
2009 Entry	83	3	Kevin Connauton	D	Western Michigan University [CCHA]	360	28	52	80	188
2009 Entry	113	4	Jeremy Price	D	Nepean Raiders [CJHL]
2009 Entry	143	5	Peter Andersson	D	Vastra Frolunda Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2009 Entry	173	6	Joe Cannata	G	Merrimack College [H-East]
2009 Entry	187	7	Steven Anthony	L	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]
2008 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2008 Entry	10	1	Cody Hodgson	C	Brampton Battalion [OHL]	328	64	78	142	68
2008 Entry	41	2	Yann Sauve	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]	8	0	0	0	0
2008 Entry	131	5	Prabh Rai	C	Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
2008 Entry	161	6	Mats Josten-Froshaug	C	Linkoping HC Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2008 Entry	191	7	Morgan Clark	G	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]

[BlastPast]

Something worth noting with regards to Myers' contracts is that he is only due 1 million in base salary during the 23-24 season, so once his bonus is paid he could be a more palatable addition to a team that cares more about cash than cap. 

[Gawdzukes]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:49 AM, NUCKER67 said:

Facts and stats?  Don't need that to see how lacking the D is.

 

OEL and Myers are older and make too much

Poolman has health issues

Rathbone is an unknown, and smallish

Dermott is an acceptable bottom pairing D, as is Burroughs

 

Quinn's real good, Schenn is dependable and tough

 

4/10 IMO

Couldn't agree more. Do my eyes count as facts cause yeah 4/10. It's the team's biggest weakness. 

 

They don't really keep stats for not knowing how to clear the zone,  being confused in your own end, and not being fast and/or mobile/skilled enough to take the puck to the opposition instead of getting it slammed in our face or off some miraculously sprawled Thatcher Demko body part. I would love to see those stats.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[Guest]

So basically we've deduced that people really struggle with trying to use stats and facts to back up their arguments.  It always defaults back to what they already think.  

 

Okay so I was thinking about this question @JM_ and my initial thought was to look at our team defensive stats as a reflection of how good our defense is.  While those numbers generally look pretty good when it comes to the bottom line (goals allowed), and middle of the pack in terms of advanced stats (high danger chances allowed)...  all those numbers are really a reflection of the whole team.  

 

So I had a simple, outside of the box idea on contrasting our defensive group against our forwards.  

When teams play 5 on 5, you're looking at 3 forwards and 2 dmen...  meaning that dmen make up 40% of the skaters.  

When teams play 4 on 4, it's almost always 2 forwards and 2 dmen on the ice, so dmen make up a higher percentage (50%) of the skaters on the team and so one could argue that dmen have a higher influence on the game in 4 on 4 situations.  

So, what if you compared 5 on 5 results vs 4 on 4 results for a team as a marker of how good it's defensemen are compared to the forwards?  

 

5 on 5:  4003 minutes, Corsi For 49.94% , Fenwick For 49.97%, Expected Goals For 49.10%  

4 on 4: 135 minutes, Corsi For 56.41% , Fenwick For 54.51%, Expected Goals For 56.12% 

 

Big difference in the sample size, however our numbers were much stronger at 4 on 4 compared to 5 on 5.  This was mostly an exercise in boredom while we wait for the big trade

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

Couldn't agree more. Do my eyes count as facts cause yeah 4/10. It's the team's biggest weakness. 

 

They don't really keep stats for not knowing how to clear the zone,  being confused in your own end, and not being fast and/or mobile/skilled enough to take the puck to the opposition instead of getting it slammed in our face or off some miraculously sprawled Thatcher Demko body part. I would love to see those stats.

Scoring chances and other puck possession numbers would tell you that.  There's certainly a way to quantify them.  

[ShawnAntoski]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:14 AM, Dazzle said:

This was a major problem before Benning arrived. The previous bozo before Benning couldn't draft a single defenseman or goaltender. Benning, while flawed, had successfully drafted several good picks for defenseman, which includes Hughes and Rathbone, with Woo probably going to make the team at some point. When good players make the team, which we have several of them in the roster, it is a bad observation to say it is a "completely empty" pipeline. Lmfao.

Yeah, both of Aquamans' past (rookie) GM's failed to deliver regardless, of there accomplishments cause (otherwise) Aquaman will still be the real defacto PoHO and either one of them will still be the GM.

Edited July 19, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[Dazzle]

23 hours ago, King Loui said:

All you're doing is arguing the drafting pedigree between two guys, one who's job was to trade draft picks away and focus on getting to the cup final(which he did) vs a guy who finished bottom 5 every year for 7 years and who's job specifically was to draft 

 

1.  Don't really need to draft goalies when you have Luongo, Schneider and Lack in the system.  Plus traded Luongo for another elite goalie then traded Schneider for our Captain.

2.  Found Chris Tanev

3.  Couldn't replace Edler I guess that's correct?

4.  Fired for wanting to rebuild with the Sedins

5. Benning's depth from rounds 2-7 eight years in.... Demko.  

 

Check out these beauties

 

Juolevi (5th)

Virtanen (6th)

Baertschi (53rd)

Vey (50th)

Gadjovich (55th)

Lind (33rd)

Woo (34th)

Gudbranson  (38th) + (McCann) 

Hoglander now dwindling 

 

Do you know we've made just one 2nd round selection and one 1st round selection in the last 3 years.   We're cap strapped, with no prospects and just finished outside the playoff picture again  #draftgod 

 

 

 

This is cherrypicking at its best. Love how you deliberately ignored the other picks. Lmfao, why is Hoglander and Woo involved in this? Gadjovich was a great pick, no matter how you spin it. Unfortunately, the assets being traded away, sometimes due to a poor coach selection, is the reason why things got neutralized.