Rutherford again criticizes Canucks structure: 'Something has to be fixed'

[JM_]

29 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Then you'd have Petey wanting out, Quinn wanting out, etc.

 

Bad take.  You'd be throwing them into the fire and, for Petey, he's really finding his game in a big way but put all the pressure on him and it could mess with that. Let him quietly go about his business without disruption, which he doesn't seem to like. This team team needs stability and to find their game, not have it all reset from square one.

 

Rutherford's words were to fire the team up more than tear it down in my view. At least for now.

imagine being 'stuck' with a point per game player. Oh the horror. 

 

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

I like David Amber's take on 650 right now.

 

Is this just to shake the team up? Change the narrative?

 

I mean, Calgary's starting to really fall. Ottawa was hot and has lost 6 in a row. Things are not "determined" 10 games in...the dust will settle but teams that started hot are now not (except Vegas, hate them). 

 

"It is what it is"

The problem is, this has never been about what other teams may or may not be doing.

 

Primarily it's about the Canucks having a black hole at top 4 RHD. The Canucks needing a 3C. The Canucks needing to play with more structure, better execution and FAR better team defense (some of that a problem with the above missing personnel). The Canucks lacking organizational depth.

 

Secondarily, how do you get those pieces with the assets and cap constraints we have? You can't keep everyone AND fix those issues.

 

Nobody wants to just move out players willy nilly. And just because we've won a couple and "they" have lost a couple, doesn't change any of that. The team isn't good enough. Period. Management needs to fix that.

Edited November 9, 2022 by aGENT

[DSVII]

10 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Pitt won the Cup with Schultz (reclamation project), Dumoulin (not really established yet), Ian Cole, Trevor Daley (last legs), Ron Hainsey (never had legs) and Olli Maatta. Lentang was hurt

This is why Rutherford thinks you can win with a lean defense 

Two generational centres and A 2 million dollar Bonino with Kessel on your 3rd line. Along with one of the winningest goalies in the NHL doesn't hurt either.

[Harold Drunken]

2 hours ago, -DLC- said:

I like David Amber's take on 650 right now.

 

Is this just to shake the team up? Change the narrative?

 

I mean, Calgary's starting to really fall. Ottawa was hot and has lost 6 in a row. Things are not "determined" 10 games in...the dust will settle but teams that started hot are now not (except Vegas, hate them). 

 

"It is what it is"

Yeah, problem is this happened last year too and was the reason we missed the playoffs. Statistically, teams that are below .500 at the 20 game mark or 1/4 way through the season usually miss the playoffs unless they go on a tear. We can't expect or assume this team is going to do what it did in the second half last season. We need to let that go, it doesn't matter anymore this season is this season. We are not playing good enough hockey to dig out of a deep hole.

[Harold Drunken]

43 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Two generational centres and A 2 million dollar Bonino with Kessel on your 3rd line. Along with one of the winningest goalies in the NHL doesn't hurt either.

Hate to be that guy, agree with everything you said along with the underwhelming d core....but they also had great structure. Probably way JR is harping on that so bad. Our D structure is terrible. 

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Yeah, problem is this happened last year too and was the reason we missed the playoffs. Statistically, teams that are below .500 at the 20 game mark or 1/4 way through the season usually miss the playoffs unless they go on a tear. We can't expect or assume this team is going to do what it did in the second half last season. We need to let that go, it doesn't matter anymore this season is this season. We are not playing good enough hockey to dig out of a deep hole.

And even if we do, is that really the goal we're aiming for?! Build a clearly flawed team, barely able to claw in to the playoffs, and only because other teams lost?!!

[DSVII]

13 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Hate to be that guy, agree with everything you said along with the underwhelming d core....but they also had great structure. Probably way JR is harping on that so bad. Our D structure is terrible. 

Sadly a structure introduced by our former assistant coach haha  but yes i can agree to this, also JR didn't have a chance to choose his own coach too plays into this.

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, -DLC- said:

I like David Amber's take on 650 right now.

 

Is this just to shake the team up? Change the narrative?

 

I mean, Calgary's starting to really fall. Ottawa was hot and has lost 6 in a row. Things are not "determined" 10 games in...the dust will settle but teams that started hot are now not (except Vegas, hate them). 

 

"It is what it is"

I remember the season standings predication thread and everyone telling me how bad Vegas would be after I predicted they would be right at the top. @canuck73_3 seems to ring a bell.  

 

I hate em too but they're good, and they have a great defence, which wins championships and makes a good team.

 

We give up 4 goals a game. It's impossible to win in this league like that. This team absolutely needs more structure and discipline. I'd welcome a coaching change. Bruce is getting tired imo. He's out of tricks. If they want to save the season which is entirely possible I'd be offering Trotz the moon. He did it in Washington.

[JeremyCuddles]

Soooooo, do something? Is this a shot at the coaching staff? The hell kind of idiotic statement is this? You snoozed on moves all summer. Let a bunch of D-men pass. Complain about cap space but used it all for forwards.

 

You're complaining about accountability, sounds like shots at Boudreau or Allvin. Or you just want to tell people you're doing nothing. Either way these statements are dumb.

[MarnersHair]

This is 82 games people. When Canucks start winning people will find ways to still complain. Patience in letting a team grow together and pressure of Canadian market. 

[Gawdzukes]

37 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Yeah, problem is this happened last year too and was the reason we missed the playoffs. Statistically, teams that are below .500 at the 20 game mark or 1/4 way through the season usually miss the playoffs unless they go on a tear. We can't expect or assume this team is going to do what it did in the second half last season. We need to let that go, it doesn't matter anymore this season is this season. We are not playing good enough hockey to dig out of a deep hole.

We went on an absolute tear last year and still didn't make it. It's a fools game. The Avalanche are currently a team in a wildcard spot too, as are the Flames. Both of those teams will undoubtedly get better, not to mention the Blues. In addition teams with better cap and management will improve at the deadline while we spin our wheels trading away picks on crappy forwards to chase fleeting aspirations of mediocrity.

 

This Canucks team is so bad at hockey it's embarrassing that we're actually trying to be competitive and not tanking like Arizona.

 

But yah the Vancouver Miller's are here forever! 

 

  

7 minutes ago, MarnersHair said:

This is 82 games people. When Canucks start winning people will find ways to still complain. Patience in letting a team grow together and pressure of Canadian market. 

This team has been growing for a long time now. It's moldy lol! 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[BC_Hawk]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

The problem is, this has never been about what other teams may or may not be doing.

 

Primarily it's about the Canucks having a black hole at top 4 RHD. The Canucks needing a 3C. The Canucks needing to play with more structure, better execution and FAR better team defense (some of that a problem with the above missing personnel). The Canucks lacking organizational depth.

 

Secondarily, how do you get those pieces with the assets and cap constraints we have? You can't keep everyone AND fix those issues.

 

Nobody wants to just move out players willy nilly. And just because we've won a couple and "they" have lost a couple, doesn't change any of that. The team isn't good enough. Period. Management needs to fix that.

Hammer meet nail! The Canucks have a huge hole at Top4 RHD that needs to be addressed. Until it is, we will never actually get to see the potential of this team. The Canucks are best offensively when they run and gun with other teams. We have great team speed, and difference makers on offense.

 

The problem lies in that we can't expose our defense, otherwise we get thrashed. Take the beginning of the season; we were scoring at will, then have no answer on d to hold leads. The team lost confidence and would get scared to lose or such in 2nd or 3rd period; bad recipe.

 

Fast fwd a few games with Hughes now out; team reverts to a full defensive style; goes from 30+ shots a game to <20. This style wins them some games, but they can't compete against the best teams when they can't score.

 

What really irks me now is JR spouting off about structure and such, when we have seen that reverting to full defensive scheme will not allow them to compete with good teams...yet him and his Swedish sidekick have done nothing to address the hole as aGENT mentioned. Sure Bear is better than nothing, but he is a far cry from a do it all Top4 RHD. At this point, JR talk is cheap...he needs to put his money where his mouth has been; made a big balls trade, not bad mouth the team, and coaching staff WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE IN CHARGE! 

 

It was their "first priority"....in the words of Yannick "they did nothing"

[BC_Hawk]

22 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Soooooo, do something? Is this a shot at the coaching staff? The hell kind of idiotic statement is this? You snoozed on moves all summer. Let a bunch of D-men pass. Complain about cap space but used it all for forwards.

 

You're complaining about accountability, sounds like shots at Boudreau or Allvin. Or you just want to tell people you're doing nothing. Either way these statements are dumb.

But they came here on vacation....his wife said it was a place she could live, so he took the job. Dude had the Canucks pay for his move and a new palace based on an errored resume built on the back of a generational player in Sidney. JR is a joke.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I had to go give that JR interview another listen, because on my first listen, I didn’t really hear him saying anything that was really unfair to Bruce or the players. After the second listen, I still feel the same.

 

Now granted, I think the old adage about pointing fingers (and the three pointing back at yourself) comes into play. Rutherford would have been better served by shouldering some responsibility himself and doing a better job to communicate how management has also failed to live up to expectations and execute on their plans this off-season. Failing to do this makes him come off a tad hypocritical, and I understand how this rubbed people the wrong way.

 

But as to his criticisms and observations on this team and the season so far, I think he was honest and forthcoming, and largely fair and accurate in his assessments.

 

It wasn’t a good camp. We went 2-3-2 in preseason, losing the first five games, and giving up four or more goals in 5 of the 7 preseasons games.

 

The season started much the same. Lost the first seven games, gave up four or more goals against in ten of thirteen games. 4-6-3 record.

 

It’s fair to question the commitment of the players, given these results.

 

Especially their inability to play a full 60 minutes in so many of the games. And all the blown leads.

 

It’s also fair to question whether or not the coaches did enough to get this team ready, given these results.

 

Rutherford is also correct in his criticisms re: structure. This is plain as day and I don’t see how anyone can deny it.

 

He’s also correct in saying this team played a loose style under Bruce last season that depended too much on high end scoring, a hot power play, and getting bailed out defensively by heroic goaltending performances. This is really not a sustainable model for success.

 

However, it’s also obvious that the team, as currently constructed, needs to have high end goaltending to compensate for the lack of adequate personnel, particularly on defence, and especially on that right side. Similarly, they need to have a potent power play and, in some aspects, play fairly “loose” at 5v5 (particularly re: forechecking systems), given the construction of the forward lines and how this team actually creates offence. This is a roster that needs to outscore its defensive issues and get bailed out by its goalies. That’s the reality IMO.

 

Better structure would absolutely help. But fixing the roster personnel would probably help more. And that’s on management.

 

Rutherford says all the right things, when it comes to assessing the roster. He’s been clear about the need to upgrade the defence, with critical focus on improving the RHD. He’s also talked about getting younger, improving cap space, moving out bad contracts, selling off surplus assets that don’t fit the plan, etc. 

 

And I think management is trying. JR is being truthful when he says that the team was in the mix for almost every Dman that moved, but either were outbid, or didn’t have the cap space or assets to get the deals done.

 

What he needed to do was take more responsibility for the failures to date. He should have stated clearly that he wasn’t satisfied with what they’ve achieved so far, in terms of “building” the roster, and that management had a lot of work left to do, before they could confidently hang their hats on the team they’ve put together.

 

And he should have admitted that they handed off an imperfect roster to Bruce, and that some of the issues this season are beyond the coach’s control. That would have gone a long way, I believe, with the fans. Especially if combined with a commitment from management that they’re going to work hard to address the issues they’re seeing with this roster.

 

If he’d said those things, I doubt people would have much of an issue with the criticisms, as they are based on reality, and I think we can all see these issues same with the team.

 

The silver lining is that, in kicking up this hornet’s nest, it seems that Rutherford has redirected a lot of fan anger and media attention toward himself, and away from the players and coaches. I doubt this was intentional, but it’s a happy accident IMO.  He’s also giving the players and coaches motivation to “prove them wrong,” which might actually be something they can draw on to help right the ship. I do think it was more of a blunder than “4D chess” from the Canucks PoHO, however. But if JR’s comments spur on this team to better results, maybe it’ll be a blessing in disguise.

[JM_]

interesting thing about Rutherfords comments is everyone is now talking about Rutherford in the media and not the players. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

2 hours ago, DSVII said:

Two generational centres and A 2 million dollar Bonino with Kessel on your 3rd line. Along with one of the winningest goalies in the NHL doesn't hurt either.

Why in the hell did Benning trade Bonino so fast ?

[DSVII]

52 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Why in the hell did Benning trade Bonino so fast ?

Because he fell in love with an overperforming 3C that was about to get cap crunched out of his team haha. (let's transpose this to JT two years later)

 

Foundational Culture Carrier Brandon Sutter.  I'll never forget how he gushed over him before even lacing his skates for us, only for Willie D to deploy him initially as a winger with the Sedins rather than our 2C.

 

 

 

 

[Hairy Kneel]

2 hours ago, DSVII said:

Sadly a structure introduced by our former assistant coach haha  but yes i can agree to this, also JR didn't have a chance to choose his own coach too plays into this.

ie I'll take the job but, ahem.. when can I fire the 35-15-10 coach?

[PistolPete13]

Old guy move to try and rally the troups. Might get a bit of a lift for a few games.

Until the defence is improved, I don’t expect to see the team winning enough games to be a contender, as much as it pains me to say that. 

We also need some help on the PK. 
You can’t make chicken soup out of chicken sh!t!

 

Ps…Ffs get rid of Mike Yeo. 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

Hammer meet nail! The Canucks have a huge hole at Top4 RHD that needs to be addressed. Until it is, we will never actually get to see the potential of this team. The Canucks are best offensively when they run and gun with other teams. We have great team speed, and difference makers on offense.

 

The problem lies in that we can't expose our defense, otherwise we get thrashed. Take the beginning of the season; we were scoring at will, then have no answer on d to hold leads. The team lost confidence and would get scared to lose or such in 2nd or 3rd period; bad recipe.

 

Fast fwd a few games with Hughes now out; team reverts to a full defensive style; goes from 30+ shots a game to <20. This style wins them some games, but they can't compete against the best teams when they can't score.

 

What really irks me now is JR spouting off about structure and such, when we have seen that reverting to full defensive scheme will not allow them to compete with good teams...yet him and his Swedish sidekick have done nothing to address the hole as aGENT mentioned. Sure Bear is better than nothing, but he is a far cry from a do it all Top4 RHD. At this point, JR talk is cheap...he needs to put his money where his mouth has been; made a big balls trade, not bad mouth the team, and coaching staff WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE IN CHARGE! 

 

It was their "first priority"....in the words of Yannick "they did nothing"

 

To be fair to management, it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. The team DOES need to play with better structure, execution, puck support and defense. That fall's firmly at the feet of the players and coaches. He's not wrong. They're simply not doing a good enough job.

 

This team, even with this personnel, and even with the clear roster holes etc, SHOULD be getting better results. They should be a bubble team, not at the bottom of the standings team. They should be able to start seasons, games, periods etc better. They should be able to be at least/around middling defensively. That's players and coaches.

 

But again, all the things I said about the roster, management, and their chosen routes they've taken thus far, are also true, and serious problems.

 

In short, both are a mess!