[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at San Jose Sharks | Nov. 27, 2022

[grandmaster]

7 hours ago, 24K PureCool said:

Drance is gonna be furious tomorrow.

 

 

Hate Drance. I wish 650 stop airing him on the show. Turn it off once I hear that weasel voice of his.

[jyu]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If that's the case then adios amigo.  Was fun while it lasted.   

 

As far as Kuz goes, i hope he will become our Panarin,  but later on.   After he signs say a 5 x 3 deal.   Panarin is every bit as good as EP is for us right now, when he joined the league and went on and signed his big deal.   Kuzmenko won't get a massive deal unless he does it again and scores 90 points and can drive his own line, sample size x 8.  He's definitely a possible choice for EPs long term line-mate ... but see you later thanks for the first rounder at the TDL or some playoffs before we open the wallet like that. 

Kuz is no where near as good as EP right now.

 

EP is driving that line in all zones. Kuz only driving the play in the offensive zone although he is not bad in the neutral zone either.

 

Honestly, I don't see Panarin level skiil from Kuz.

 

Ideally, we trade Boeser and give that money to Kuz (around 6). Otherwise, we just have to move on.

 

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said:

Boy, could you imagine if it were that easy and straight forward though? lol

 

They did though??? They added Bear, which seems to be a win thus far, but people with a narrative don't seem to want to acknowledge that for some odd reason.....

 

Problem is, if the team continues to play well, and they make a trade the same crowd would crucify them for shaking things up. The reality is there are some on CDC that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. There is no winning with some....improving the blueline will likely take more time, they (I mea Benning) already have 33% of the cap tied up on the back end, 7th highest in the NHL. A couple contracts will be hard to move, and good defenseman, especially RHD are at a premium. 

 

What are you willing to give up for one? I bet the price they will have to pay would upset you, and then you would rip them apart for giving up a good roster player and a pick (maybe even more) to get them. 

I like bear too. Bit early but we look to have brought in a good dude.

 

If JR lives up to his resume , I will gladly eat all the crow you want. I have just been unimpressed with his attitude and lack of targeting our needs in a timely fashion. 

 

The one thing that I like about your posts is that we both seem to think we have something quality in this squad. 

Your last sentence is incorrect about me. Might apply to other posters but I am fine with moving any of them outside of EP and QH ..IF, it betters the squad immediately. I am not on team rebuild. 

 

BTW, don't let others opinions rile you too much. For example I really like JT, you can imagine the ribbing I get. 

[Harold Drunken]

7 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I like bear too. Bit early but we look to have brought in a good dude.

 

If JR lives up to his resume , I will gladly eat all the crow you want. I have just been unimpressed with his attitude and lack of targeting our needs in a timely fashion. 

 

The one thing that I like about your posts is that we both seem to think we have something quality in this squad. 

Your last sentence is incorrect about me. Might apply to other posters but I am fine with moving any of them outside of EP and QH ..IF, it betters the squad immediately. I am not on team rebuild. 

 

BTW, don't let others opinions rile you too much. For example I really like JT, you can imagine the ribbing I get. 

All good man, I'm not riled up at all!...I just put the onus on posters when they list problems but have no solutions or can't back it up with any discernable facts or statistics. I just know, based on current market value of good, young RHD will seek a king's ransom right now and the price to acquire one would upset most on here as giving up picks and assets is usually a hot topic for this team. So JR and PA are up against against a crowd that wants to improve the blueline with a good quality RHD but also is against giving up picks and assets.....see their conundrum??? lol

 

BTW - not all that was directed at you - there were many blanket observations about other CDC users too. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I like bear too. Bit early but we look to have brought in a good dude.

 

If JR lives up to his resume , I will gladly eat all the crow you want. I have just been unimpressed with his attitude and lack of targeting our needs in a timely fashion. 

 

The one thing that I like about your posts is that we both seem to think we have something quality in this squad. 

Your last sentence is incorrect about me. Might apply to other posters but I am fine with moving any of them outside of EP and QH ..IF, it betters the squad immediately. I am not on team rebuild. 

 

BTW, don't let others opinions rile you too much. For example I really like JT, you can imagine the ribbing I get. 

When Gillis built the supporting cast around the Twins (and other key core guys) did he acquire those players in the order we preferred, or did he get them when they became available?  I see us like we were back when Gillis took over.  We have elite core pieces but not a good enough supporting group, especially on D.  It's going to take a couple years for JR to clean up the Benning mess.  

[Harold Drunken]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

When Gillis built the supporting cast around the Twins (and other key core guys) did he acquire those players in the order we preferred, or did he get them when they became available?  I see us like we were back when Gillis took over.  We have elite core pieces but not a good enough supporting group, especially on D.  It's going to take a couple years for JR to clean up the Benning mess.  

I still don't comprehend how some on here have expected JR and PA to clean up 7+ years of bad cap management in one off season? If something takes 7 years to do, it's not likely going to be reversed in 1 - just an ounce of common sense would tell you that haha

 

There's too many people being willfully ignorant just to try and support their argument and it's depressing 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[stawns]

Just now, Harold Drunken said:

I still don't comprehend how some on here have expected JR and PA to clean up 7+ years of bad cap management in one off season? If something takes 7 years to do, it's not likely going to be reversed in 1 - just an ounce of common sense would tell you that haha

7 years of bad cap management that means nothing.  All that "bad cap" is/was set to expire in the next year or two (save for OEL), right when Petey and Hughes are hitting their prime.

 

It was PA and JR who signed two deals that shot that plan in the foot.  Now they'll likely lose Bo and possibly Petey

[Harold Drunken]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

7 years of bad cap management that means nothing.  All that "bad cap" is/was set to expire in the next year or two (save for OEL), right when Petey and Hughes are hitting their prime.

 

It was PA and JR who signed two deals that shot that plan in the foot.  Now they'll likely lose Bo and possibly Petey

Yes I know you've said that before....................We're talking about right now though, not two years down the road .because that hasn't happened yet so is not relevant to this conversation. We can't blame JR and PA for something that has or hasn't happened two years from now. 

 

And what are you basing them losing Petey on? you just said they'll have more cap in a couple years then say we'll lose Petey that makes no sense. 

 

Benning had 7 years to execute whatever his plan was, stop making excuses for him. It wasn't some 14 year master plan like you've suggested, I can tell you that for free lol that argument is just funny.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Mustard Tiger]

I hate how we are doing this yet again. Bunch of losses followed by a bunch of confidence building wins. Winning will result in many more poor decisions by us..... But it's alot more fun to win. Not to mention we have like 5 guys at or above a point per game and it's pretty much December... would be a shame to waste that type of production..

 

Please canucks whatever happens do NOT finish in no man's land. The old missing the playoffs by 5ish points is the worst possible outcome again 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Yes I know you've said that before....................We're talking about right now though, not two years down the road .because that hasn't happened yet so is not relevant to this conversation. We can't blame JR and PA for something that has or hasn't happened two years from now. 

 

And what are you basing them losing Petey on? you just said they'll have more cap in a couple years then say we'll lose Petey that makes no sense. 

 

Benning had 7 years to execute whatever his plan was, stop making excuses for him. It wasn't some 14 year master plan like you've suggested, I can tell you that for free lol that argument is just funny.

Even JR says their window is two years down the road

[Mucneer]

5 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

You should come up with a new variation of these stats by adding in "..............................................."with The worst defence"

Nahhh there is enough negative in the world right now.  Stick to stuff we do best.

[Harold Drunken]

Just now, stawns said:

Even JR says their window is two years down the road

You're swinging at ghosts here man, I don't even know what you're point is anymore lol but to say 7 years of bad cap management means nothing  is insane. How can it mean nothing, what are you trying to say?

[chon derry]

5 hours ago, ktcy2 said:

All we had to do was to just not sign Boeser this past season. It was that simple but of course the JR and PA regime lacked the insight to see this. Now it’s too late, we probably won’t be able to keep both horvat and kuzy but instead we still have Boeser, Myers, OEL. Go figure 

Another example of hasty decisions locking down miller before horvat?. His media comments throwing everybody under the bus is also a little hasty. For him to have publicly questioned whether  the fans would except a rebuild shows he has some concern about the fan base. I hope he did feel some heat for those comments. Something he may have gotten away with in Hartford Carolina and Pittsburg. He’s underestimated the Canadian  markets knowledge, weighed against that of the Americans. He seems to shoot from the hip first and learn later. An older wiser man like himself shouldn’t be putting himself in a learn the hard way situation. ( polite way of sayin STFU) ! 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said:

You're swinging at ghosts here man, I don't even know what you're point is anymore lol but to say 7 years of bad cap management means nothing  is insane. How can it mean nothing, what are you trying to say?

It means that the young core was always going to be the ones to move this franchise forward and while waiting for that group to develop and emerge, JB wanted to surround them with vets who might shelter them and get them some playoff experience.  Regardless of the outcome, there's nothing wrong with that plan.

[Goal:thecup]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

I think this team has given more than enough justification for being negative, and a scattered few reasons for being positive. 
‘But I am not going to play mod and police what tone people can use in the ongoing discussion thread.  It is typical form on this board to continue the general team conversation in the PGT until the next GDT thread comes. 
‘It is absolutely fair to look at this team and see that there are mediocre at best, don’t believe me try looking at things like overall results and direction. 
If we want to keep this group, that has accomplished nothing, together it is going to take some incredible cap acrobatics.  The other poster was absolutely correct in this. Didn’t match the tone you prefer, so be it. 

No they aren’t as bad a team as they were at the start of the year, they are now what they should have been all along, a team that when everything goes well is a borderline playoff team that is dependent on a goalie going on an otherworldly heater to go anywhere.  
‘Sorry if some fans prefer to see something better out of this club but ownership gets away with it because of fans that see a close win with requisite blown lead against a bottom dweller and think we are good and everything is fixed. 

Blah, blah, blah.

Keep the trade proposals in the trade proposal threads, is all I'm saying.

They're just repeating their same proposals over and over.

What part of PGT is worrying that Kuz may be worth a nice new contract.

Oh my goodness, good players are going to get paid...

[DrJockitch]

18 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

I still don't comprehend how some on here have expected JR and PA to clean up 7+ years of bad cap management in one off season? If something takes 7 years to do, it's not likely going to be reversed in 1 - just an ounce of common sense would tell you that haha

 

There's too many people being willfully ignorant just to try and support their argument and it's depressing 

Absolutely agree with this but would be more convincing if JR didn’t look like he was following the Benning plan to a T.

Double down on loosing team with long retirement contracts-check.

‘Fill out bottom six with UFAs-check

Spend what cap flexibility we have on another winger which is our one area of organizational depth-check. 
‘Trade away pics and prospects for more developed players that teams that developed them don’t see in their future-check. 
‘Oh and ignore organizational depth and holes and draft a small scoring winger with top pic-not so much a Benning trait but still. 
Most importantly overblow any moderate success as a sign they we are building to something that just isn’t there. 
 

@Goal:thecup your statements are horribly ironic given your name since you seem so happy with any moderate success that your “goal” moves further and further away. Why don’t you let the mods do the moderating. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by DrJockitch

[Harold Drunken]

Just now, stawns said:

It means that the young core was always going to be the ones to move this franchise forward and while waiting for that group to develop and emerge, JB wanted to surround them with vets who might shelter them and get them some playoff experience.  Regardless of the outcome, there's nothing wrong with that plan.

Yeah, I think you're making up what you wanted his plan to be to make you feel better honestly. And that's fine, but it's likely not reality - they wouldn't have fired him because if what you said was true he was doing a fantastic job of surrounding those young players with pricey veterans while teaching them how to not win consistently lol so ok you win. 

[bishopshodan]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

When Gillis built the supporting cast around the Twins (and other key core guys) did he acquire those players in the order we preferred, or did he get them when they became available?  I see us like we were back when Gillis took over.  We have elite core pieces but not a good enough supporting group, especially on D.  It's going to take a couple years for JR to clean up the Benning mess.  

 Good Morning. Nice to hear that you like the core and that they are not soft suckerooos.

 

I really liked Gillis despite what a lot on CDC say of him/ The reason is that he almost....almost  got us a the grail.

He wasn't without his flaws, my fav was the Sundin saga.

 

If it takes JR a couple years, then I don't seem him as very special. 

[Harold Drunken]

2 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Absolutely agree with this but would be more convincing if JR didn’t look like he was following the Benning plan to a T.

Double down on loosing team with long retirement contracts-check.

‘Fill out bottom six with UFAs-check

Spend what cap flexibility we have on another winger which is our one area of organizational depth-check. 
‘Trade away pics and prospects for more developed players that teams that developed them don’t see in their future-check. 
‘Oh and ignore organizational depth and holes and draft a small scoring winger with top pic-not so much a Benning trait but still. 
Most importantly overblow any moderate success as a sign they we are building to something that just isn’t there. 

As I've mentioned before, the sample size is too small. Benning had 7 years - we aren't even at a full year with Allvin. Time will tell.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

You're swinging at ghosts here man, I don't even know what you're point is anymore lol but to say 7 years of bad cap management means nothing  is insane. How can it mean nothing, what are you trying to say?

Exactly.  Benning acquired some very good pieces in Petey, Demko, Hughes, and Miller.  He inherited Bo, who is also very good.  So we have a good core.  But Benning tried to build around that core a quality supporting cast and failed miserably.  Just awful cap management and wasted picks/prospects to accomplish his mess.  Now JR and Allvin are trying to fix the cap mess, while bringing in pieces needed to support the key core.  I think that's why we have Mik signed for four years.  The plan is to have the supporting cast built before that contract is done.