What should the Canucks approach be at the trade deadline if they’re in the playoff race?

[Warhippy]

25 minutes ago, BCNate said:

Nice job doctoring up my quote there champ.

 

Care to add back in the part about dealing Garland, Boeser, Myers to open up space to address the D?  Using those pieces and the cap space they open up to overhaul the D is an awfully good way to supplement our core.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"champ" cute

 

So how do you address the now gaping hole in our forward core?  Garland is an almost indispensable middle 6 forward.  Boeser is currently a ppg top 6 player regardless of how slow he looks.  Myers is still currently our best defense.

 

Now, your suggestion is that "we're not far off" yet by creating two massive holes in our forward group we're now able to retain Kuzmenko and Horvat great, but now we're also looking for a PPG RW, a defensively responsible motor for the middle 6 that is one of the best even strength producers for their contract in the league and also still have to revamp the defensive end of things while now also finding yet another top 4 RHD when we haven't really had one to speak of since 2011/2012

 

So when you want to be smug at least try; like really try to get the meat in to the meal when you do.  Because your suggestion of just revamping the defense because "we're not far off" is wrong.  Creating 3 gaping holes at three of the more expensive positions in the league while suggesting "we're not far off" and still not addressing the defense while have literally thousands, not tens or hundreds of thousands but thousands to spend to fix it now is honestly just ignoring the overall issue and committing to more of the same.

 

Te one overall glaring factor you missed while throwing out a ppg (14 points in 16 games) RW like Boeser or an even strength production possession monster like Garland "just to clear up cap space" is that to replace those pieces, we're now competing with 20 other teams in the league for the exact same assets come free agency because nobody is just gonna give them to us which inevitably puts us in the exact same spot we've been in for the last 4 years.

 

No depth.  no cap space.  Mediocrity at best.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Warhippy

[250Integra]

The only way this team buys or stays put is if they believe they can go deep in the playoffs. Even if they're in a playoff position, they still need to entertain offers to open up cap space. My guess is if a Horvat deal is done before the TDL then we'll likely see one or two of Boeser, Pearson, Garland, or Myers gone. Kuzmenko might be someone they sell high on especially if a 1st rounder is coming back our way.

[stawns]

Somehow they're going to have to find about $8m in cap savings to keep Bo and Kuz, but almost any deal they make will be salary in and salary out.......it's going to be tricky 

[erkayloomeh]

We should be selling Boeser,  garland.

We can win without them and it would be nice to get some pics and free up cap. 

[BCNate]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

"champ" cute

 

So how do you address the now gaping hole in our forward core?  Garland is an almost indispensable middle 6 forward.  Boeser is currently a ppg top 6 player regardless of how slow he looks.  Myers is still currently our best defense.

 

Now, your suggestion is that "we're not far off" yet by creating two massive holes in our forward group we're now able to retain Kuzmenko and Horvat great, but now we're also looking for a PPG RW, a defensively responsible motor for the middle 6 that is one of the best even strength producers for their contract in the league and also still have to revamp the defensive end of things while now also finding yet another top 4 RHD when we haven't really had one to speak of since 2011/2012

 

So when you want to be smarmy at least try; like really try to get the meat in to the meal when you do.  Because your suggestion of just revamping the defense because "we're not far off" is wrong.  Creating 3 gaping holes at three of the more expensive positions in the league while suggesting "we're not far off" and still not addressing the defense while have literally thousands, not tens or hundreds of thousands but thousands to spend to fix it now is honestly just ignoring the overall issue

Boeser, Garland, and Dries are our current 3rd line.  You are overestimating their impact, they have 5 goals on 37 games combined. Garland hasn't scored a goal in a month  3rd line forwards are not the more expensive positions in the league, Jim Benning aside.

 

If the Myers, Garland, Boeser are as indispensable as you suggest, they will get significant returns to address our D.

 

Even If you dealt the 3 for minimal draft picks/futures and retained a bit on Myers, you would have over 30 million this offseason to re alllocate assets.  That is a bit more than the thousands you suggest.  

[stawns]

1 minute ago, erkayloomeh said:

We should be selling Boeser,  garland.

We can win without them and it would be nice to get some pics and free up cap. 

You're not freeing up much cap with either of them imo.  Both deals would likely have significant cap coming back

[stawns]

2 hours ago, luckylager said:

If we start next season with Miller but without Horvat.. no words

If they choose Miller and Boeser over Bo and Kuz, that might be enough for me to find another team.

[IBatch]

In the race then make some moves that work for us if they come up.    If Horvat isn't going to talk until the off-season then that's a tough one.  

 

That said, even if we are tops in our division i'd be hesitant to buy.   First playoffs - then worry about what's next.   Horvat, is this years Miller lol.    If a deal comes up that's too hard to ignore then sell.   Playoffs first step.   These guys need that.    But not ready to buy ... the only way we should even consider that is if we end up a top team (league wide).    Unlikely.   But am going to enjoy the ride .... and all the scoring. 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by IBatch

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, BCNate said:

Boeser, Garland, and Dries are our current 3rd line.  You are overestimating their impact, they have 5 goals on 37 games combined. Garland hasn't scored a goal in a month  3rd line forwards are not the more expensive positions in the league, Jim Benning aside.

 

If the Myers, Garland, Boeser are as indispensable as you suggest, they will get significant returns to address our D.

 

Even If you dealt the 3 for minimal draft picks/futures and retained a bit on Myers, you would have over 30 million this offseason to re alllocate assets.  That is a bit more than the thousands you suggest.  

OK we're gonna disagree no matter what.

 

14 points in 16 games is not third line production.  Garlands consistency at even strength puts him in the top 5% in the entire league for his cap hit.  Your suggestion is moving them out just for the cap space.  We can not replace those players at forward.  At all.  We also don't have the current space to take on any more "Ethan Bear" type deals at all to try to improve the defense.  Regardless of what line they are playing on, that is not production that is easily replaced.  

 

With most teams in the league struggling with cap issues it is a compounding issue because any cap we send out will effectively end up with cap coming back.  

 

The fundamentla issue here is that we're creating holes to plug holes.  Suggesting we can move out Myers Boeser and Garland at around $17 million in cap space to replace/retain Horvat and Kuzmenko.  Kuzmenko's current production puts him at around $7 ish million for league average, a $6 million increase in straight cap.  Horvat's currently a minimum $7.5 million or a $2 million increase for an $8 million total leaving us now $9 million to replace a ppg RW, a defensively responsible middle 6 player in Garland and STILL find a top pairing and top 4 pairing RHD (like the entire league is doing) which is literally not possible for less than $9 million.  

 

This is added/adding that we also still have no depth the second we get injured and the issues with Dermott and Pearson coming back from injury relief.

 

Sorry mate, we're never gonna agree on this one because we're just way to far off to consider ourselves contenders

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

If they choose Miller and Boeser over Bo and Kuz, that might be enough for me to find another team.

Depends on what you get for them.   Doesn't it?   Plus time rarely follows a hockey script anyways.   This years hero's often end up tomorrows wasted cap.     

[spook007]

Regardless og anything they can't afford to let neither Bo nor Kuz leave for nothing at the end of the season. 
 

If they can't resign them, they have to deal them... 

 

If they can resign them, they may have to deal others at TDL, but it won't be as pressing a decision to make. 
 

Hopefully a Brock or Garlamd + something else out and a top 4 D line Baer in would be really good.  
 

[IBatch]

Just now, spook007 said:

Regardless og anything they can't afford to let neither Bo nor Kuz leave for nothing at the end of the season. 
 

If they can't resign them, they have to deal them... 

 

If they can resign them, they may have to deal others at TDL, but it won't be as pressing a decision to make. 
 

Hopefully a Brock or Garlamd + something else out and a top 4 D line Baer in would be really good.  
 

Just pin this.   It's the correct answer to the question. 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Regardless og anything they can't afford to let neither Bo nor Kuz leave for nothing at the end of the season. 
 

If they can't resign them, they have to deal them... 

 

If they can resign them, they may have to deal others at TDL, but it won't be as pressing a decision to make. 
 

Hopefully a Brock or Garlamd + something else out and a top 4 D line Baer in would be really good.  
 

I think we have to accept that a boeser and/or garland deal would be money out and money in.  Hopefully they can save a million on each deal

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

OK we're gonna disagree no matter what.

 

14 points in 16 games is not third line production.  Garlands consistency at even strength puts him in the top 5% in the entire league for his cap hit.  Your suggestion is moving them out just for the cap space.  We can not replace those players at forward.  At all.  We also don't have the current space to take on any more "Ethan Bear" type deals at all to try to improve the defense.  Regardless of what line they are playing on, that is not production that is easily replaced.  

 

With most teams in the league struggling with cap issues it is a compounding issue because any cap we send out will effectively end up with cap coming back.  

 

The fundamentla issue here is that we're creating holes to plug holes.  Suggesting we can move out Myers Boeser and Garland at around $17 million in cap space to replace/retain Horvat and Kuzmenko.  Kuzmenko's current production puts him at around $7 ish million for league average, a $6 million increase in straight cap.  Horvat's currently a minimum $7.5 million or a $2 million increase for an $8 million total leaving us now $9 million to replace a ppg RW, a defensively responsible middle 6 player in Garland and STILL find a top pairing and top 4 pairing RHD (like the entire league is doing) which is literally not possible for less than $9 million.  

 

This is added/adding that we also still have no depth the second we get injured and the issues with Dermott and Pearson coming back from injury relief.

 

Sorry mate, we're never gonna agree on this one because we're just way to far off to consider ourselves contenders

I read fundementia and couldn't help but laugh.    That's funny.   

 

Why don't we just worry about this stuff if and when it comes up?  Brad Richards anyone?    How about Markus Naslund.   13.6% cap hit anyone!    Good grief.   It's not the end of the world if we miss the playoffs (again) and sell some guys.   Horvat might end to with a run of scoring like he did - but wont ever get that cap hit will he?  We either re-sign him or we don't.   But do get the concern about letting assets go just for a blip run.   This also happens to be the peak cap for this current core.   So wont fall jump off a cliff if we buy either - but only if we are not "in the race " that's silly.   We better be in a good spot.  And Demko better be wrapped up.  With some Bubble. 

[BCNate]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

OK we're gonna disagree no matter what.

 

14 points in 16 games is not third line production.  Garlands consistency at even strength puts him in the top 5% in the entire league for his cap hit.  Your suggestion is moving them out just for the cap space.  We can not replace those players at forward.  At all.  We also don't have the current space to take on any more "Ethan Bear" type deals at all to try to improve the defense.  Regardless of what line they are playing on, that is not production that is easily replaced.  

 

With most teams in the league struggling with cap issues it is a compounding issue because any cap we send out will effectively end up with cap coming back.  

 

The fundamentla issue here is that we're creating holes to plug holes.  Suggesting we can move out Myers Boeser and Garland at around $17 million in cap space to replace/retain Horvat and Kuzmenko.  Kuzmenko's current production puts him at around $7 ish million for league average, a $6 million increase in straight cap.  Horvat's currently a minimum $7.5 million or a $2 million increase for an $8 million total leaving us now $9 million to replace a ppg RW, a defensively responsible middle 6 player in Garland and STILL find a top pairing and top 4 pairing RHD (like the entire league is doing) which is literally not possible for less than $9 million.  

 

This is added/adding that we also still have no depth the second we get injured and the issues with Dermott and Pearson coming back from injury relief.

 

Sorry mate, we're never gonna agree on this one because we're just way to far off to consider ourselves contenders

I don't disagree with your evaluation of either Garland or Boeser.  I do disagree with the need to replace them and the allocation of those resources.  We get outstanding production from our top 6, and decent production from our 4th line.  I'd be just fine with building a lower cost high energy, physical, defensively responsible third line with guys who can PK, and spending the remaining available $ on our D.  Scoring is a not our issue, defending is.  Right now the only currency we have to deal from is forward depth to address our gaping hole on D.  

 

It's not lost on me that you have to give to get, and then have to try and replace what you give.  If we gave up forward depth without taking from our top 6 and returned defensively responsible D, our team is light years better than it currently is.  

[luckylager]

21 minutes ago, stawns said:

If they choose Miller and Boeser over Bo and Kuz, that might be enough for me to find another team.

Yeah. Kraken are an exciting young team, free of traumatic memories, and no legacy disappointment and seemingly endless failure

[Warhippy]

12 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I read fundementia and couldn't help but laugh.    That's funny.   

 

Why don't we just worry about this stuff if and when it comes up?  Brad Richards anyone?    How about Markus Naslund.   13.6% cap hit anyone!    Good grief.   It's not the end of the world if we miss the playoffs (again) and sell some guys.   Horvat might end to with a run of scoring like he did - but wont ever get that cap hit will he?  We either re-sign him or we don't.   But do get the concern about letting assets go just for a blip run.   This also happens to be the peak cap for this current core.   So wont fall jump off a cliff if we buy either - but only if we are not "in the race " that's silly.   We better be in a good spot.  And Demko better be wrapped up.  With some Bubble. 

If we mis the playoffs by a few points this year it's kind of a big deal.  This is the year where mediocrity will hurt for a long time.  That top 5 is potentially franchise defining.

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, BCNate said:

I don't disagree with your evaluation of either Garland or Boeser.  I do disagree with the need to replace them and the allocation of those resources.  We get outstanding production from our top 6, and decent production from our 4th line.  I'd be just fine with building a lower cost high energy, physical, defensively responsible third line with guys who can PK, and spending the remaining available $ on our D.  Scoring is a not our issue, defending is.  Right now the only currency we have to deal from is forward depth to address our gaping hole on D.  

 

It's not lost on me that you have to give to get, and then have to try and replace what you give.  If we gave up forward depth without taking from our top 6 and returned defensively responsible D, our team is light years better than it currently is.  

2011.

 

We had to remove Raymond, Malhotra, Rome.

 

Sometimes addition by subtraction is just subtraction.

[DrJockitch]

It is tough to come out and say we need to trade  this player or that player because there is nothing coming to replace them at pretty much all positions in the near future. We may be able to add McDonnaugh or Karlsson late in the year if can trade Boeser or Garland but their aren’t any other prospects looking NHL ready other than Lockwood. 
Our best AHL centre was Dries and he adds a third 5’9” or less forward to an already small group up front.  Our prospect pool is just amazingly bad considering we have been bottom feeders for most of 10 years. 
Part of the issue is finding room for a new top 4 D even if we could obtain one. Moving Myers will probably have to come in summer, OEL will only get subtracted via buyout and at this point isn’t worth it but does get more favourable in a couple years. 
 

We do absolutely need to clear space to even maintain the core we have. As much as I like Mik, his signing was a mistake if we can’t move on from at least 2 of Miller, Brock, Garland or Pearson. If Bo moves on then we should be trading all of them because that is full rebuild mode without Bo. 
‘Moving anything off D would be obscenely expensive unless we find someone really desperate or looking to move their own bad contracts. 

[DrJockitch]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

If we mis the playoffs by a few points this year it's kind of a big deal.  This is the year where mediocrity will hurt for a long time.  That top 5 is potentially franchise defining.

We have started our run for 16th OA. Book it now. Team screams we need rebuild, ownership screams your a championship calibre team, hold the course.