Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys

[iinatcc]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think the team went through with the pride night (they’ve done it the two previous years apparently) but pulled the pregame pride jersey just before the guys were supposed to wear them.  Reading between the lines, I’d say there were several Ranger players who refused t wear the jersey, and used the Provorov excuse: “it’s against my religious beliefs”.  It would have looked bad seeing several players missing the warmup skate.  

If that is the case just let the ones who want to wear it, wear it and participate 

 

It does three things 

1. Shows who are the players that really want to support this 

2. Exposes those that don't since these people feel strongly about it 

3. No discrimination or exclusion of players just to show what it is and let public individuals formulate their own opinion and views (i.e oh such and such is not wearing the pride people are free to think if he is free to express his beliefs, a homophob, or both ) 

Edited January 29, 2023 by iinatcc

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Frankly a sad state of affairs when the night is done with all the bells and whistles, class if you will and yet people have to find something to pick apart. I can assure you empowering people through that evening and putting money behind initiatives and programs for inclusiveness and celebrating the evening as was done is far more then a positive that does not need to be lessened by the very people and advocates it is allies with because jerseys were not worn. 

Perfectly put.  

 

Sounds like it was nicely put on, but the author of this article is creating some fake outrage.  Also somehow this author was elected to represent the entire LGBTQ+ community and speak on their behalf.  

[ABNuck]

9 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

@ABNuck I was going to try and offer a measured explanation on why this is quickly becoming a serious issue.

 

But I'm not going to waste my time on someone who thinks anyone supporting the KKK should have a voice and see the light of day.  Your idea of free speech is to murder people in the name of white supremacy.  They belong in jail, along with anyone dumb enough to even support their right to do believe such garbage.

I think you need to go back and re-read my comments my friend. In no way did I state that I supported the KKK, nor did I say that my "idea" of free speech was to murder anyone in the name of white supremacy. It is those types of statements that are inflammatory and are at the root of all divisions, people who tell you what you meant by what you said. I joined the Canadian Forces back in the 80's to fight for people's freedoms and to rid the world of hatefulness and tyranny...in EVERY form. Free speech is free speech, and it has no bounds until it crosses the line of common law. If a member of the KKK expresses hateful speech, then he is 100% wrong. If he states that he prefers McDonald's burgers, or Chevy trucks, then he is entitled to that opinion. If he wears a symbol of hatred (ie/ swastikas or other symbol) then that is 100% wrong and promotes hatred. If he chooses not to wear a rainbow t-shirt on gay pride day, well again that's his choice and it is not hateful in any way. I think society will be in a much better place if they just allow people to have and express their opinions, as long as they don't cross the line to hateful speech. There is a HUGE difference between saying "I don't support the pride community" to "I hate the pride community"...people need to understand the difference. We cannot, as a society, get to the point where we state that everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as it doesn't disagree with mine...that's when the divisions start. Let's just all try to get along and include EVERYONE in society unless they are hateful and exclusive by definition of common law.

[-DLC-]

12 hours ago, ABNuck said:

I may be way out in right field here, but I'm trying to understand the hate that people are having towards Provorov. These seem to be two different incidents albeit connected by one part of society. By not wanting to where a gay pride jersey, isn't Provorov just exercising his own freedom of expression as well? I myself personally would not wear any symbols of anything to show support for something that I personally don't believe in, and I don't think anyone else should be forced to do so either. What I do find interesting is that when any issue of inclusivity in sport comes up, it seems to be overtaken by the LBGT+++ community. By design, wouldn't inclusivity mean everyone, no matter their race, color, nationality, sexual preference etc.? I don't see a lot of Filipino people in the NHL, nor do I see a lot of Filipino inclusivity media (nights, jerseys, banners etc). I also don't recall hearing Provorov state that he hated gay people or anything like that. If he is like me on the subject then he probably feels that I neither hate nor publicly support, my choice in a free society is it not? Whenever I hear of anyone being excluded (again by either race, nationality, color, religious beliefs, sexual orientation or anything) it frustrates me...but it's the EXCLUSION that frustrates me, not the ideals that the individuals represent. I personally feel that everyone should have their personal rights and freedoms to what they choose, and that no one should penalize anyone for those beliefs as long as they are not contrary to common law. If Provorov came out and stated that he hated gay people and that's why he won't support the evening's theme, then that would be wrong. But he didn't. He simply wants to be included for his own personal views. As do I. I don't hate anyone, not even Calgary Flames fans. They push my patience at times, but I wish them no harm. I wasn't born onto this planet to become any sort of judge of people and their beliefs...they're personal and each person should have the freedom to express them. Heck, even the KKK has right to assemble and speak their thoughts (as long as it isn't hateful)...I don't and never would support them, but I understand their right to speak their opinion. Anyways, focus on the big picture...inclusivity...and don't get too tied up in the tiny details like what Provorov did. Now, what the Rangers did just seems to be a case of misrepresentation. Don't promise something you're not going to deliver. Whether individual players may or may not participate, that's a team level decision. But for the organization as a whole to not follow through definitely wreaks of weak leadership.

When you're on the job, though, there are requirements at times.

 

Like my freedom working in a school is quite limited. I have to work within the confines of an elementary level setting. I have to be careful of tshirts I wear, etc. I have to watch my language. Etc.

 

If you stand alone in your freedom and your entire team stands together, you're not really being a team player. You're putting your own "freedom" in the way of coming together for a cause that your team supports.

 

The Rangers doing this also really missed the mark. 

 

If you don't support the cause, the NHL may not be for you because they're striving for inclusiveness and that hockey is for everyone. If you aren't of that thinking, maybe go find a profession where your "beliefs" are more in line with your job. It's a privilege not a right to be part of an NHL team. You're paid the big bucks to "represent" your team and if you opt out of important events and causes, that's on their watch.

[Slegr]

8 minutes ago, ABNuck said:

I think you need to go back and re-read my comments my friend. In no way did I state that I supported the KKK, nor did I say that my "idea" of free speech was to murder anyone in the name of white supremacy. It is those types of statements that are inflammatory and are at the root of all divisions, people who tell you what you meant by what you said. I joined the Canadian Forces back in the 80's to fight for people's freedoms and to rid the world of hatefulness and tyranny...in EVERY form. Free speech is free speech, and it has no bounds until it crosses the line of common law. If a member of the KKK expresses hateful speech, then he is 100% wrong. If he states that he prefers McDonald's burgers, or Chevy trucks, then he is entitled to that opinion. If he wears a symbol of hatred (ie/ swastikas or other symbol) then that is 100% wrong and promotes hatred. If he chooses not to wear a rainbow t-shirt on gay pride day, well again that's his choice and it is not hateful in any way. I think society will be in a much better place if they just allow people to have and express their opinions, as long as they don't cross the line to hateful speech. There is a HUGE difference between saying "I don't support the pride community" to "I hate the pride community"...people need to understand the difference. We cannot, as a society, get to the point where we state that everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as it doesn't disagree with mine...that's when the divisions start. Let's just all try to get along and include EVERYONE in society unless they are hateful and exclusive by definition of common law.

To me, one of the key points with the Provorov example is that while free speech and all of that exists, he is employed by an NHL team that has committed to inclusivity and that has said it is proud to support the LGBTQ+ community. The jersey-wearing warm-ups are a reflection of that. Prior to his sitting out of the warm-up skate, the NHL had never allowed a player to do that. He was going against the values of his employer.  That's like with you when you were in the Canadian forces - they don't allow certain things when in uniform, behaviour such as chewing gum, slouching, placing hands in pockets, and smoking or eating on the street is forbidden. Can you do that when you're not in uniform? Sure. We have those freedoms. But when your employer sets certain expectations, you are obligated. Otherwise, there are other places for you to work. NHL players, whether they like it or not, are held to a high standard, and are seen as leaders.

[GhostsOf1994]

When is there going to be heterosexual pride night?

 

No straight people, no reproduction and eventually humans cease to exist. 

 

Ask the NHL when they will have child slave labor night for all those Indonesian kids? 

 

When is the NHL going to step up and and denounce islamic/muslim states where lgbtq = death? I'll wait.

 

keep identity politics off the ice! 

 

So they say Hockey is for everyone, right?

 

not everyone will agree with LGBTQ so those people must be cancelled/ punished.

 

How very tolerant, non discriminatory of others beliefs.

 

its none of my business nor does it bother me who people sleep with or identify as long as there is no children, rape or sexual abuse.

 

 

Just wash your hands is all I ask

 

 

[-DLC-]

36 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

When is there going to be heterosexual pride night?

 

No straight people, no reproduction and eventually humans cease to exist. 

 

Ask the NHL when they will have child slave labor night for all those Indonesian kids? 

 

When is the NHL going to step up and and denounce islamic/muslim states where lgbtq = death? I'll wait.

 

keep identity politics off the ice! 

 

So they say Hockey is for everyone, right?

 

not everyone will agree with LGBTQ so those people must be cancelled/ punished.

 

How very tolerant, non discriminatory of others beliefs.

 

its none of my business nor does it bother me who people sleep with or identify as long as there is no children, rape or sexual abuse.

 

 

Just wash your hands is all I ask

 

 

You miss the point, completely.

 

It's like all lives matter when black lives matter is out there.

 

Not all people experience the discrimination and, often, all out hatred and violence thrown at them. So the causes to support these people aren't something that all people really "need". Straight people can go about their business without the absolute roadblocks that the LGBTQ community encounters. 

 

This isn't about "excluding" or denouncing ... it's about expressing support in the community for all people. Regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

 

And throwing up "what about (this group and that group)" isn't really a great argument. Eventually, hopefully, all people will feel represented and supported in this world. You don't NOT support some because not all are being supported. You start there and work outward.

[-DLC-]

15 hours ago, Slegr said:

It’ll be interesting to see what the Canucks do. 
The Canucks will celebrate the 2SLGBTQIA+ community on March 31, 2023 against the Calgary Flames during their annual pride game.

It looks like last year they wore the special jersey during the pregame skate:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-fans-confused-price-tag-pride-jerseys

I'd be shocked if anything changes here.

 

I mean, I believe we even have team reps in the parade and that's so awesome.

 

Here's my deal....so it goes against "your belief". Well, no one's asking you to be gay...we're asking you to support how other human beings are treated so eventually, hopefully, no one has to face the violent reactions this community often does. So that peace and love can replace hatred. Everyone (every religion) should be on board with that.

 

It's their life....you don't have to be part of it beyond putting a shirt with colours on it. It's a reasonable request and a show of love and inclusiveness, first and foremost. Everyone has their beliefs but we have to find a way to co-exist on this earth without digging our heels in the sand and not trying to move beyond that. Fear based stuff. No one's going to change your world, we all just get to be part of it. Our world. And that's a belief we all should hold.

 

What about when players start wearing ads on jerseys? Are they going to ditch the jersey if those ads aren't in line with their "beliefs"? 

 

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, ABNuck said:

I think you need to go back and re-read my comments my friend. In no way did I state that I supported the KKK, nor did I say that my "idea" of free speech was to murder anyone in the name of white supremacy. It is those types of statements that are inflammatory and are at the root of all divisions, people who tell you what you meant by what you said. I joined the Canadian Forces back in the 80's to fight for people's freedoms and to rid the world of hatefulness and tyranny...in EVERY form. Free speech is free speech, and it has no bounds until it crosses the line of common law. If a member of the KKK expresses hateful speech, then he is 100% wrong. If he states that he prefers McDonald's burgers, or Chevy trucks, then he is entitled to that opinion. If he wears a symbol of hatred (ie/ swastikas or other symbol) then that is 100% wrong and promotes hatred. If he chooses not to wear a rainbow t-shirt on gay pride day, well again that's his choice and it is not hateful in any way. I think society will be in a much better place if they just allow people to have and express their opinions, as long as they don't cross the line to hateful speech. There is a HUGE difference between saying "I don't support the pride community" to "I hate the pride community"...people need to understand the difference. We cannot, as a society, get to the point where we state that everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as it doesn't disagree with mine...that's when the divisions start. Let's just all try to get along and include EVERYONE in society unless they are hateful and exclusive by definition of common law.

You have absolutely no clue what the KKK is, do you?  Did you forget what their symbols represent?  You think that's just free speech?  What exactly do you think their beliefs are?  You aren't protecting the weak from evil.  You're protecting the haters.  You literally picked one of the worst, most openly violent, racist organizations in modern history and said their rights to "free speech" should be protected and that we should all just get along.  Tell a black person to try and get along with the KKK.  No - tell the KKK to get along with the black person.  Just try.

 

You made the comparison and made your own bed.  Now you have to lie in it.

[Sharpshooter]

17 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

When is there going to be heterosexual pride night?

 

No straight people, no reproduction and eventually humans cease to exist. 

 

Ask the NHL when they will have child slave labor night for all those Indonesian kids? 

 

When is the NHL going to step up and and denounce islamic/muslim states where lgbtq = death? I'll wait.

 

keep identity politics off the ice! 

 

So they say Hockey is for everyone, right?

 

not everyone will agree with LGBTQ so those people must be cancelled/ punished.

 

How very tolerant, non discriminatory of others beliefs.

 

its none of my business nor does it bother me who people sleep with or identify as long as there is no children, rape or sexual abuse.

 

 

Just wash your hands is all I ask

 

 

When heterosexuals are discriminated against by the majority of all religious leaders and members of society, at large, for centuries before and up to this very day. 
 

 

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

19 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

When is there going to be heterosexual pride night?

 

No straight people, no reproduction and eventually humans cease to exist. 

 

Ask the NHL when they will have child slave labor night for all those Indonesian kids? 

 

When is the NHL going to step up and and denounce islamic/muslim states where lgbtq = death? I'll wait.

 

keep identity politics off the ice! 

 

So they say Hockey is for everyone, right?

 

not everyone will agree with LGBTQ so those people must be cancelled/ punished.

 

How very tolerant, non discriminatory of others beliefs.

 

its none of my business nor does it bother me who people sleep with or identify as long as there is no children, rape or sexual abuse.

 

Just wash your hands is all I ask

So... you think hockey is a welcoming sport for gay men?  Really?  Whataboutism is the lamest argument anyone can try to make.  The NHL should be free to support and promote whatever causes they believe in.  Literally every special night is going to be tied to some kind of identity politics.  Nothing in this world is not political.  Support armed forces?  That's political.  Diwali?  That's for brown people.  Black awareness?  Political.

 

The funny part is that we both kinda believe in the same principle: that the NHL are bunch of hypocrites.  The difference is that your argument is what I expect to hear from a grade 9 student.

[MeanSeanBean]

27 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

When is there going to be heterosexual pride night?

 

No straight people, no reproduction and eventually humans cease to exist. 

 

Ask the NHL when they will have child slave labor night for all those Indonesian kids? 

 

When is the NHL going to step up and and denounce islamic/muslim states where lgbtq = death? I'll wait.

 

keep identity politics off the ice! 

 

So they say Hockey is for everyone, right?

 

not everyone will agree with LGBTQ so those people must be cancelled/ punished.

 

How very tolerant, non discriminatory of others beliefs.

 

its none of my business nor does it bother me who people sleep with or identify as long as there is no children, rape or sexual abuse.

 

 

Just wash your hands is all I ask

 

 

This is the exact argument I heard when people started saying "All lives matter" when the BLM movement was in full swing. And I'll say the same thing I said then, this isn't about you.

 

A movement to help support a minority group that is openly discriminated against doesn't mean they are saying another group doesn't matter. It's simply drawing attention to a group that needs support. 

 

In your example, heterosexual couples aren't openly decriminated against for being heterosexual. They do not need support. Homosexual, Indigenous, Black people are, they will benefit from having awareness brought to this issues.

[Sharpshooter]

5 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Perfectly put.  

 

Sounds like it was nicely put on, but the author of this article is creating some fake outrage.  Also somehow this author was elected to represent the entire LGBTQ+ community and speak on their behalf.  

There have been numerous articles about this from every organization from Fox News and ESPN to Reuters and numerous other outlets. 
 

You think everyone is espousing fake outrage by writing/reporting a story on this? 
 

And it’s more confusion than outrage. Confusion about a team that says that they support gender equality on paper, but seemingly in not all their follow through. 

Maybe it isn’t the players, maybe it’s the management, but if no one can get a straight answer then reporters will dig and many fans/non-fans will question the decision. 

[greenbean30]

Honestly, I think the NHL should just go away from all these jerseys, it is just a money making scheme. Have the nights where you support all these different groups, but don't have different jerseys for every single night just to put more money into the owners pockets, and that's all it is meant for.

 

I know people will say well proceeds go towards those groups from the sale of those jerseys. Well if the team truly supports the cause, then there are other ways to donate towards those groups that will likely earn a hell of a lot more money. Like a percentage of any concession sales goes to the proceeds, or a 1/4 of the 50/50.

 

The jerseys is just a way for the NHL and the owners to make more money, and it is getting out of hand. It's nearly every month if not more there is a special jersey for a special night.

[GhostsOf1994]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

When heterosexuals are discriminated against by the majority of all religious leaders and members of society, at large, for centuries before and up to this very day. 
 

 

 

 

my cousin is openly lesbian and I support her beliefs. she even played ice hockey on guess what? an all lesbian team! this was 1995-1997.

 

How nice were her teammates to me and my father who picked her off and dropped her off and watched her games and practices?

 

No discrimination there on our sexual orientation, right?

 

I was also only a boy and not yet a teenager, what did I ever do to them other then be born a male?

 

17 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

You miss the point, completely.

 

It's like all lives matter when black lives matter is out there.

 

Not all people experience the discrimination and, often, all out hatred and violent thrown at them. So the causes to support these people aren't something that all people really "need". Straight people can go about their business without the absolute roadblocks that the LGBTQ community encounters. 

 

This isn't about "excluding" or denouncing ... it's about expressing support in the community for all people. Regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

 

And throwing up "what about (this group and that group)" isn't really a great argument. Eventually, hopefully, all people will feel represented and supported in this world. You don't NOT support some because not all are being supported. You start there and work outward.

Ahh .... I had a nice paragraph and tapped on sharpshooters response and lost it all!

 

BLM founders have done nothing for the community in their name, instead incited violence, riots and stole 10s of millions of dollars.

 

as the name states BLM doesn't need to be said, no one deserves to die or suffer because of their skin color. 

 

why isnt the NHL expressing support of LGBTQ in Muslim/ islamic states?

 

Show me a rule, law or in writing that has ever existed that banned lgbtq from sports?

 

Ask a highschool female athlete how she likes competing against men and losing out on scholarships because thats how the male to female identifys.

 

Keep Identity politics out of sports.

[Sharpshooter]

5 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

Honestly, I think the NHL should just go away from all these jerseys, it is just a money making scheme. Have the nights where you support all these different groups, but don't have different jerseys for every single night just to put more money into the owners pockets, and that's all it is meant for.

 

I know people will say well proceeds go towards those groups from the sale of those jerseys. Well if the team truly supports the cause, then there are other ways to donate towards those groups that will likely earn a hell of a lot more money. Like a percentage of any concession sales goes to the proceeds, or a 1/4 of the 50/50.

 

The jerseys is just a way for the NHL and the owners to make more money, and it is getting out of hand. It's nearly every month if not more there is a special jersey for a special night.

I think you may be misunderstanding the economics about the Pride Sweaters. 
 

They were to be and have in the past been auctioned off with proceeds going to charities. 
 

This was never about making money for the team or its owner/owners. 
 

 

[4petesake]

5 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

 

 

Show me a rule, law or in writing that has ever existed that banned lgbtq from sports?

 

 

OK.

 

 

[GhostsOf1994]

13 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

So... you think hockey is a welcoming sport for gay men?  Really?  Whataboutism is the lamest argument anyone can try to make.  The NHL should be free to support and promote whatever causes they believe in.  Literally every special night is going to be tied to some kind of identity politics.  Nothing in this world is not political.  Support armed forces?  That's political.  Diwali?  That's for brown people.  Black awareness?  Political.

 

The funny part is that we both kinda believe in the same principle: that the NHL are bunch of hypocrites.  The difference is that your argument is what I expect to hear from a grade 9 student.

I feel attacked because of my beliefs, Am I doing it right?

 

you just discriminated against me because yiu do but don't agree with you? 

 

 

identity politics dont belong in sports.

 

does sexual orientation make you a better athlete?

isnt that a little sexist?

[greenbean30]

8 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I think you may be misunderstanding the economics about the Pride Sweaters. 
 

They were to be and have in the past been auctioned off with proceeds going to charities. 
 

This was never about making money for the team or its owner/owners. 
 

 

I know that they auction them off, but I am sure that they take a cut of the proceeds so that they don't lose any money. As well they do sell the jersey's in the store for $750(this is the Canucks, don't know about any other team), so it's definitely about making money.

 

I also addressed the proceeds topic in my post, there are other ways to donate to those charities that the team could easily do and that would end up being a lot more money towards those charities, but it would take out of their profit.

Edited January 29, 2023 by greenbean30

[-DLC-]

11 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

 

my cousin is openly lesbian and I support her beliefs. she even played ice hockey on guess what? an all lesbian team! this was 1995-1997.

 

How nice were her teammates to me and my father who picked her off and dropped her off and watched her games and practices?

 

No discrimination there on our sexual orientation, right?

 

I was also only a boy and not yet a teenager, what did I ever do to them other then be born a male?

 

Ahh .... I had a nice paragraph and tapped on sharpshooters response and lost it all!

 

BLM founders have done nothing for the community in their name, instead incited violence, riots and stole 10s of millions of dollars.

 

as the name states BLM doesn't need to be said, no one deserves to die or suffer because of their skin color. 

 

why isnt the NHL expressing support of LGBTQ in Muslim/ islamic states?

 

Show me a rule, law or in writing that has ever existed that banned lgbtq from sports?

 

Ask a highschool female athlete how she likes competing against men and losing out on scholarships because thats how the male to female identifys.

 

Keep Identity politics out of sports.

Sounds like maybe a personal experience you had 25 years or more ago may be negatively impacting your view today.  

 

People may have been hostile back then because they had to fight just to be part of society. My two neighbours (friends..RIP Joan and Tam) were subjected to all kinds of hatred and isolation. Stigmatized. Even by their own families. 

 

They endured a lot of ugliness and, yes, some groups may have reacted based on that. Lashed back out in a defensive manner. As you appear to possibly be doing now. 

 

Be part of the solution, not the problem.