[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[eeeeergh]

If Riley Stillman isnt getting 24 minutes per night for the remainder of the season, then this management team well and truly has lost the plot.

 

Its time. Deploy him. This is his moment. He was born for this. 

[CanucksJay]

9 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

If Riley Stillman isnt getting 24 minutes per night for the remainder of the season, then this management team well and truly has lost the plot.

 

Its time. Deploy him. This is his moment. He was born for this. 

#freeriley

[Pure961089]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:55 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

Hate to say it but this is what I worry about most. Great, we've got a couple of solid 1st round picks, but we don't have a great drafting history and if you look at Allvin, he's not the best either.

 

Lekkerimaki is much of a muchness, too soon to see what he really is, but the players around him and after him are doing marginally better. Still, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and we should wait a couple of years.

 

Allvin's drafting record in Pittsburgh wasn't great but he rarely had such high picks to work with.

 

We have absolutely blown our 1st rounders in the past but also gotten a couple of gems, but then again the conversion rate for top-10 picks should be a bit higher than what we've had so far. Petey is an absolute star and JB pulled that one out of his back side. Hughes the same. In a re-draft of their drafts, they probably move up 2-3 spots which is a lot considering.

 

Then there's Virtanen, Juolevi and now Podkolzin who's having a bumpy development, prior to that Gaunce and Jensen. I'll highlight Podkolzin - another one we get excited about a big, strong, physical winger and he's struggling now. Meanwhile Boldy is a beast in Minnesota and Cole Caufield is doing pretty well too and they were taken just a couple of picks after him.

 

The common theme I saw with these guys, dating back to Nick Jensen, is that we kept drafting size and toughness over skill. The two times we draft smaller/skinnier skilled guys, it pays off (Petey and Hughes).

 

I hope we don't obsess with physicality anymore with Allvin - so far we haven't, and we've targetted more skilled guys, but we can't be wasting top picks like this almost every single season. Our conversion rate of top-10 picks into full time NHLers let alone stars is bleak.

Yup, so many examples.  I’m afraid the Canucks can do everything right and stay the course, get a top 6 player and still screw it up going off the board.  I want Will Smith at 6, if we can somehow get him at that spot and a good RHD at 13 that’s a start.  I’m confident with Demko out and a massive hole at centre we can sail easily to a top 6 pick.  
 

The only difference between the Canucks in the past that drafted poorly and this team is hopefully our player development is better that previous teams.  Our medical staff on the other hand is another topic, how can our medical staff let Mikheyev play on a blown ACL for 2/3 of a season?  And we wonder why the Canucks have had such horrendous luck with injuries.

 

my top 5-7 are 

Benson, Smith, and  Cristall (you don’t need to be a speedster if you can pass the puck like Adam Oates) 

 

 

[MattWN.]

8 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Yup, so many examples.  I’m afraid the Canucks can do everything right and stay the course, get a top 6 player and still screw it up going off the board.  I want Will Smith at 6, if we can somehow get him at that spot and a good RHD at 13 that’s a start.  I’m confident with Demko out and a massive hole at centre we can sail easily to a top 6 pick.  
 

The only difference between the Canucks in the past that drafted poorly and this team is hopefully our player development is better that previous teams.  Our medical staff on the other hand is another topic, how can our medical staff let Mikheyev play on a blown ACL for 2/3 of a season?  And we wonder why the Canucks have had such horrendous luck with injuries.

 

my top 5-7 are 

Benson, Smith, and  Cristall (you don’t need to be a speedster if you can pass the puck like Adam Oates) 

 

 

I'll live stream myself tearing my own finer nails off, before I sift through the memes on CDC if we draft Will f**king Smith.

[JeremyCuddles]

1 minute ago, MattWN. said:

I'll live stream myself tearing my own finer nails off, before I sift through the memes on CDC if we draft Will f**king Smith.

I already got my memes in the oven. Will Smith has a massive discography of meme potential.

[Pure961089]

On 2/3/2023 at 7:47 AM, jyu said:

2014 draft minus Virtanen was a gold mine for us.

 

McCann (top 6 forward)

Demko (#1G)

Tryamkin (#4-6D)

Forsling (Top 4D)

 

If we picked Ehlers or Nylander and stayed patient and developed McCann and Forsling; and if we didn't play hardball with Tryamkin...

 

5 roster players.

 

What it could have been...

 

2014: Ehlers*, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling

2015: Boeser

2016: Tkachuk* -- trade his a$$ later for a haul

2017: Petey

2018: Hughes

2019: Podz and Hogs

 

I still prefer 2014:   Ehlers, Pastrnak Demko,… 

 

Taking nothing away from previous draft years where we drafted well.  The only thing that’s different this year is hopefully we have a drastically improved Player Development.  But again Allvin, Jim. R and Todd Harvey haven’t given me much reason to be optimistic in their drafting ability.  

[EdgarM]

5 hours ago, -DLC- said:

A little bit of that is the damn inconsistency in officiating.

 

Myers gets penalized if his breath reaches another player.

 

We've always had the book thrown at us for infractions that some other teams can get away with. Slide under the radar. The white towel has followed us and we just can't do what some other teams (Bruins) can. It's handcuffed this team and I think the "don't or we'll get penalized", which is based in reality, should be thrown out the window at times. Go for it anyhow, it'll soon change. Which is why I don't think we should let Schenn go. Then what?

Oh yes the "White Towel" we even have a statue depicting that. 

There in lies the major problem this team lives with. The "Victim Stance".

Why did we lose in 2011? It was the refs! It was because of injuries! 

No! It was because we were outplayed, period.

The bottom line is that we are unable to adapt to certain styles of play and its because we did not have the personnel or coaches to adapt. Look what happened when Torts asked them to change? They stopped playing for him, the same thing happened last year with TG.

That's why I am so excited for this new regime, they are making difficult decisions which will make this team far better able to adapt to different styles of play.

I agree about Schenn, even though he could bring us valuable picks, he brings a lot more to this team then that, to say the least.

[JayDangles]

37 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I know, I'll get over it...I always eventually do.

 

I just kind of hate it when it plays out this way. Stalemates and a guy moving on because we can't "afford" him...not because we don't "need/want" him on the team. Sucks.

I personally think Bo moving on is best for the team. I was glad that we couldn't afford him. I really like him, but I want to see different leadership and a different swagger to this team. There was just no way to move forward by keeping Bo 

In my opinion of course.

[MattWN.]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I personally think Bo moving on is best for the team. I was glad that we couldn't afford him. I really like him, but I want to see different leadership and a different swagger to this team. There was just no way to move forward by keeping Bo 

In my opinion of course.

100%. 

 

All we've heard about the past handful of years are splits in the locker room, and country club vibes. Change was needed, and it starts with Bo. 

[JayDangles]

56 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah it is embarrassing after awhile. It's only natural to blame something, anything sometimes when you lose and every fanbase does it and expects it. To carry that around permanently though is pretty mind-boggling. To think the whole hockey world and thousands of high priced hockey employees are hellbent on punishing the Canucks and only the Canucks is pretty sad. It's poor sportsmanship really. Like you said, it happens every night in any other game around the league. As far as Myers he's a tall, sometimes uncoordinated giant. He makes reckless plays sometimes, and he sometimes gets unfair calls because of it. Just like any tall aggressive hockey player though. Not just because he's a Canuck. 

And not just in the NHL. I have had some terrible refs in my time playing, and never did it stop me or any other teammate from playing physical. 

I don't think an NHL player will use this excuse.... Although it is odd that Myers' last real hit was when he obliterated Duncan Keith... But that was game one of the season in 2021. 

[JayDangles]

5 minutes ago, MattWN. said:

100%. 

 

All we've heard about the past handful of years are splits in the locker room, and country club vibes. Change was needed, and it starts with Bo. 

I always go back to a nasty hit on Hoglander last year. Where he got rocked, and Horvat was the closest player to it, and he literally turned his back to it and skated to the bench.

 

Then this year, Garland takes a heavy glove to the face, Horvat is right there, does absolutely nothing.

 

There are actually lots of these examples over the years of Horvat ignoring and not having his teammates backs. 

 

I've played on a lot of teams, and if my captain ever left me hung out to dry like that he would have gotten an earful in the locker room. 

 

These things erode trust, and erode the foundation real teams are built on 

 

This is the culture that needs changing. I'm very happy there's at least an opportunity now to see change happen.

[Pure961089]

3 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Oh yes the "White Towel" we even have a statue depicting that. 

There in lies the major problem this team lives with. The "Victim Stance".

Why did we lose in 2011? It was the refs! It was because of injuries! 

No! It was because we were outplayed, period.

The bottom line is that we are unable to adapt to certain styles of play and its because we did not have the personnel or coaches to adapt. Look what happened when Torts asked them to change? They stopped playing for him, the same thing happened last year with TG.

That's why I am so excited for this new regime, they are making difficult decisions which will make this team far better able to adapt to different styles of play.

I agree about Schenn, even though he could bring us valuable picks, he brings a lot more to this team then that, to say the least.

Remember when the NHL promised that they would go back to calling penalties in the playoffs after 1994 and Patt Quinn traded away, Sergio Momesso, and Greg Adams for Mike Ridley and Russ Courtnall. Traded Mike Peca for Mogilny and Took all the size and grit out of the team, all because the NHL said they were going in a more skilled direction, the NHL forgot about their promise to crack down on clutching and grabbing.  it would only get worse with the expansion years, bad teams only way to survive was to clutch and grab.  the next decade would be known as the “dead puck ere”  The order from the top was to go easy on the expansion teams.  From then on games were managed not reffed like they were before. 
 

 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Imagine not being able to live off of $6 million per year...

 

The money is simply an ego thing, who gets paid more.  It has nothing to do with providing for your family unless you are a 4th line plug making minimum wage.  The top end guys are all getting paid millions.  Whether BO gets paid $6 million per year or $8 million per year, his family is still set for life as well as several of his future generations.  The extra $2 million is for the ego only...

You are right, it is ego, status and all of that. There is a marketplace, I personally think its a joke filled with variables that make your eyes roll. Everytime I hear a hockey " insider " spew out the " Player X having just signed for this and only scoring 15 goals, now Player Y has double the goal output so you can expect his agent will be demanding double Player X's cap, but may be open to 250k less per on a longer deal " lol.

 

2 hours ago, coryberg said:

Not sure if you realize it or not but NHL players have to pay taxes on their income. 6 million isn't 6 million take hom. Not even close. Besides that fact, you can't blame a dad for wanting to set his family up for generations.

Yes taxes are a very real enemy of us all. A person earning 6 million dollars a year in B.C will get back just under 3 million dollars. We are not to judge others on what they have or spend in their lives but yes more than an above livable wage setting up family for generations on 3m per season. But wait, NHL players who can manage 10 seasons in the league also at retirement can start receiving a maximum pension ( 255k ) at age 45 years or a reduced amount at the time they retire. For Bo, when he hits 45 years old he would be collecting $ 160,000 a year on pension alone or just over 13 thousand a month until he dies on top of his career earnings.

 

It is 110% correct to say yes you can live off this amount, you can support a large family, you can ensure generations are taken care of, etc, you cannot blame someone for being in a field that pays well and having a system in place where people will negotiate for you to earn even more. You always want the best. I generally hate the " doctors earn this much, professional athletes earn this much " comparisons.

 

But there is also something to players knowingly taking pay cuts, knowingly taking less to stay with an organization, there is something to be said for loyalty. I think Bo is a very good top six forward, I think he chose the security and bump in income that Free Agency can provide versus remaining a Canuck, he will probably get a very lucrative contract, it is not meant as a slap in the face but he chose that over playing in Vancouver, is what it is.

 

If he signs say with the Islanders then he was probably premature as will get his money with any number of good or contending teams vs the Islanders.

 

 

[DeNiro]

Gotta wonder what the plan is now with that 7+ million dollars this team had earmarked for Bo.

 

This management clearly had a plan to fit him in if he had accepted their last offer. So do they really just sit on that money? This organization has never been one to do that in past.

 

I wonder what targets they’d look at in free agency. You know they’re gonna spend.

[CanucksJay]

7 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Gotta wonder what the plan is now with that 7+ million dollars this team had earmarked for Bo.

 

This management clearly had a plan to fit him in if he had accepted their last offer. So do they really just sit on that money? This organization has never been one to do that in past.

 

I wonder what targets they’d look at in free agency. You know they’re gonna spend.

Well if Bo signed, they would have had to move some bodies to fit bo under the cap. Maybe there's less pressure to do so now. 

 

Not saying that's the right thing but basically they were going to be a cap team either way 

[DeNiro]

Just now, CanucksJay said:

Well if Bo signed, they would have had to move some bodies to fit bo under the cap. Maybe there's less pressure to do so now. 

 

Not saying that's the right thing but basically they were going to be a cap team either way 

I think they’re gonna do those things regardless.

I just don’t see them letting whatever extra cap they planned to create burn a hole in their pockets. I totally expect them to acquire another top 6 forward.

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

I think they’re gonna do those things regardless.

I just don’t see them letting whatever extra cap they planned to create burn a hole in their pockets. I totally expect them to acquire another top 6 forward.

Lol another forward... Please God no. 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, CanucksJay said:

Lol another forward... Please God no. 

Not saying that’s a good idea I just see it happening.

 

You don’t go from wanting to sign a player for 7-8 mil long term to nothing. 

[MattWN.]

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Not saying that’s a good idea I just see it happening.

 

You don’t go from wanting to sign a player for 7-8 mil long term to nothing. 

Wouldn't be surprised if the offer was just for optics, knowing he wasn't going to sign for under 8. Which makes sense, when JR went public after the offer and told the fans they made a fair offer based off his career up to this season. If management had half a brain, they'd sit on that open cash and weaponize it. 

[DeNiro]

Just now, MattWN. said:

Wouldn't be surprised if the offer was just for optics, knowing he wasn't going to sign for under 8. Which makes sense, when JR went public after the offer and told the fans they made a fair offer based off his career up to this season. If management had half a brain, they'd sit on that open cash and weaponize it. 

So you’re saying they were bargaining in bad faith? I don’t see that.

 

I think they made a fair offer. The rumour was they offered 7.5 x 7. What if he had a change of heart and accepted.

 

They definitely had a plan to have Horvat on the team next season. Whether they sit on that money (the smart thing) or spend it remains to be seen.