[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[SilentSam]

3 minutes ago, rekker said:

I will defend the twins as well for the Hall of Famers they are, but I fully agree with this statement. It's no coincidence that we have a GM and coaches with multiple cups, and JT was chosen over Bo. Basically, that's what's happened, and it's for the better, and I loved Bo. It's long overdue for a culture change here and JT is going to lead that charge. EP plays more aggressively than Henrik, and Hughes isn't afraid to speak up and call out what needs to be called out. It's about a way of approaching the game and I'm just tired of this look the other way crap. I agree with your other point that what makes hockey great is that it's an "in your face" sport. A thing of beauty, I ffnn love it. I want a culture that embraces that and it's been sorely missing since Kesler and Burrows and even the likes of Hansen have left. 

Thanks Rekker,.

   There was a time not too long ago I thought that culture was rising here again,.  It was the time of the West Coast Express, JovoCop , and hand fulls  of other characters willing to step up aggressively to win .

 

The Bertuzzi incident was unfortunate,  

But many incidents happened to contribute to that one ..

 

The outcome of that was a City of fans who loved a player , turned their back on him..

 

They / We should have stood with that soldier and allowed him the forgiveness he rightfully deserved, and helped to rally his game back where and what he was,.  One of the best power forwards this franchise has seen.

 

Shortly after that team dismantled, and Gillis “retooled” into the 2011 Final.

Amazing actually.

but then … somewhere , somehow ..  we went soft.

 I often wonder if it’s more due to scouting,.

and perhaps them leading management away from a style , to one that is thought to be the way THE LEAGUE is progressing to “no fighting” or more skillfull players, and tighter rules..  

But the real truth to how this game is played rises every playoff season,  it’s Physical Fast and Mean.

                   And no team , including ours should create a culture any less than that.

[rekker]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Thanks Rekker,.

   There was a time not too long ago I thought that culture was rising here again,.  It was the time of the West Coast Express, JovoCop , and hand fulls  of other characters willing to step up aggressively to win .

 

The Bertuzzi incident was unfortunate,  

But many incidents happened to contribute to that one ..

 

The outcome of that was a City of fans who loved a player , turned their back on him..

 

They / We should have stood with that soldier and allowed him the forgiveness he rightfully deserved, and helped to rally his game back where and what he was,.  One of the best power forwards this franchise has seen.

 

Shortly after that team dismantled, and Gillis “retooled” into the 2011 Final.

Amazing actually.

but then … somewhere , somehow ..  we went soft.

 I often wonder if it’s more due to scouting,.

and perhaps them leading management away from a style , to one that is thought to be the way THE LEAGUE is progressing to “no fighting” or more skillfull players, and tighter rules..  

But the real truth to how this game is played rises every playoff season,  it’s Physical Fast and Mean.

                   And no team , including ours should create a culture any less than that.

So true, playoffs are a battle and not for the faint of heart. What da you know, the team is now run by playoff proven management and coaching. Benning was a softy when he played. I watched him, but won't pretend to remember him specifically. Just go off hilites and talk and he was a softy. He assembled that mentality and it failed miserably. I mean, one example. In one season JR et all have found a Dakota Joshua! Holy crap. JR couldn't find a player like that through all his years. Pathetic. 

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

Coz Miller is a leader, and he's awesome....am I allowed to say that without offending BoHo lovers? 

No one has said you’re not allowed to like JT Miller 

[Elias Pettersson]

If the Canucks want a new captain they should let the players decide. That’s how I would do it. Then you will get a true captain who is respected by all. This should always be done this way unless you have someone who is a no brainer to be captain. 
 

My vote would be for JT Miller to be captain. My gut feeling is Petey doesn’t want to be captain. Hughes would be fine as well. But his brother isn’t the captain of New Jersey so I don’t think he is forcing himself to be a captain either.  
 

Let the two young superstars focus on hockey. Miller is very comfortable with the media and is like a father figure to the others. He’s a family man. Let him take the heat for the others and the media can have fun with him when he’s in a sh*tty mood. 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, rekker said:

So true, playoffs are a battle and not for the faint of heart. What da you know, the team is now run by playoff proven management and coaching. Benning was a softy when he played. I watched him, but won't pretend to remember him specifically. Just go off hilites and talk and he was a softy. He assembled that mentality and it failed miserably. I mean, one example. In one season JR et all have found a Dakota Joshua! Holy crap. JR couldn't find a player like that through all his years. Pathetic. 

The pro scouting that we have currently is light years ahead of what it used to be. Let’s hope the amateur scouting is just as good. 

[rekker]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If the Canucks want a new captain they should let the players decide. That’s how I would do it. Then you will get a true captain who is respected by all. This should always be done this way unless you have someone who is a no brainer to be captain. 
 

My vote would be for JT Miller to be captain. My gut feeling is Petey doesn’t want to be captain. Hughes would be fine as well. But his brother isn’t the captain of New Jersey so I don’t think he is forcing himself to be a captain either.  
 

Let the two young superstars focus on hockey. Miller is very comfortable with the media and is like a father figure to the others. He’s a family man. Let him take the heat for the others and the media can have fun with him when he’s in a sh*tty mood. 

Yip. I lean towards JT as captain as well and I agree, I'm not convinced EP wants it. JT would embrace it, probably fumble it at times, but he's a maturing hockey player that I think would embrace the C and rise to it.

[Sophomore Jinx]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If the Canucks want a new captain they should let the players decide. That’s how I would do it. Then you will get a true captain who is respected by all. This should always be done this way unless you have someone who is a no brainer to be captain. 
 

My vote would be for JT Miller to be captain. My gut feeling is Petey doesn’t want to be captain. Hughes would be fine as well. But his brother isn’t the captain of New Jersey so I don’t think he is forcing himself to be a captain either.  
 

Let the two young superstars focus on hockey. Miller is very comfortable with the media and is like a father figure to the others. He’s a family man. Let him take the heat for the others and the media can have fun with him when he’s in a sh*tty mood. 

I agree, there's no one better for the job, he would be a great captain, and I look forward to seeing that happen (not that it would be a terrible thing, but I do have some trepidation that they may choose EP40)

[Ted Lasso]

Despite defending him in the trade Miller thread for a long time, I hadn’t thought of Miller for Captain, and was limiting the choices to the two young Superstars.

 

After hearing Petey’s interview at the ASG, it was clear he doesn’t want it (at least yet…when there’s doubt, there’s no doubt).

 

Between the IMac article, this presser and several posters here, I’m on board. The candor to admit his mistakes, and the maturity to overcome them (and show that with his play), and the fact he’s turned up his play after landing the contract have won me over. 
 

He’s also recognizing other players, and showing an interest to mentor younger players like Podz, and expressing confidence/optimism for the team.These are all good traits for a Captain.

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Kenny Powers
added a bit

[Darius]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Seattle had a captain. Mark Giordano. They traded him after 58 games so didn’t bother to name another captain yet. No rush to do that at this time because they don’t really have anyone else that screams captain material. 

 

Montreal did the same thing. Didn’t have a captain for years. Even Boston went without a captain for several years while Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito were on the team. Neither one of those guys ever became captain though. 

 

Vegas also didn’t have anyone who could be a captain until Mark Stone arrived. Now they have Alex Pietrangelo as well so they now have good leadership. 
 

It’s better not to have a captain at all then naming one just for the sake of it. I also disagree about a captain only being a symbolic figure. That’s just not true. I’ve been following hockey since the 80’s. Some of my all time favourite players were captains. They were all the unequivocal leaders of their teams. In every way. Wayne Gretzky, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Mario Lemieux, Scott Stevens, Ray Bourque, Bryan Trottier, Mark Messier, Zdeno Chara, Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin. 
 

These guys were all the leaders of their team. Respected by everyone in hockey. When they walked into a room people listened. No way these guys were just symbolic figures for their teams. They are all Stanley Cup champions and put their teams on their backs in order to win a cup. 
 

It’s different now than what it used to be. But you still have alot of captains currently in the NHL who are similar to the players above. Some of the current captains shouldn’t really be captains. You can see this by watching their teams play. And some teams just don’t have that right player to be a captain. The Canucks were in that position when Henrik retired. There wasn’t really a good replacement for him. BO became captain because he seemed to be the only player who fit that role. But he was too young and inexperienced for that role. He was never going to be a Linden or Smyl. And he didn’t have enough talent to be like Henrik or Naslund. He was named captain because quite frankly we didn’t really have anyone else available who qualified. 

I agree that teams needs respected players that form a Leadership group. At the end of the day I don’t think it mattered if messier had the c or Gretzky had the c.. heck coffee could have been the c.  same with Sakic or Forsberg. Yzerman or any other of the prominent players on those teams.  Look at our own history , Diduck could have been the c in 94 - that wouldn’t have stopped Linden from stepping up imho.  Vegas had a bunch of respected vets and no formal captain- they made it to the finals.  At the end of the day it’s a letter that does not block other players from being inspirational and dominant.  I think my main disagreement with Sam is his position is that  c needs to goto someone that drops the gloves or is a truculent and can intimidate players. 

[Ted Lasso]

Saying multiple leaders could have been the Captain on historical teams, doesn’t make the C a ceremonial position. Nor does citing a team with several alternates making it to the final. These are just Captain-related red herrings. 

Leaders shape the culture and identity of a team, and wearing a letter formalizes that leadership.

 

If a Captain says in the media ‘it feels like the team will ever win again’ in late October, that’s setting a defeatist, weak-minded identity/culture. Same goes for not sticking up for teammates, blocking shots or finishing checks.

 

Maybe if we get the next Captain right, it will remind fans what it can actually mean.

 

“He will play. You know he'll play! He'll play on crutches!”

Edited April 16, 2023 by Kenny Powers

[Elias Pettersson]

21 minutes ago, Darius said:

I agree that teams needs respected players that form a Leadership group. At the end of the day I don’t think it mattered if messier had the c or Gretzky had the c.. heck coffee could have been the c.  same with Sakic or Forsberg. Yzerman or any other of the prominent players on those teams.  Look at our own history , Diduck could have been the c in 94 - that wouldn’t have stopped Linden from stepping up imho.  Vegas had a bunch of respected vets and no formal captain- they made it to the finals.  At the end of the day it’s a letter that does not block other players from being inspirational and dominant.  I think my main disagreement with Sam is his position is that  c needs to goto someone that drops the gloves or is a truculent and can intimidate players. 

Diduck was similar to Bieksa. I would give him an A for sure. But not the C. If I look at that 94 team I could see Ronning with the C. Adams would have been okay too.  But they weren’t even close to Linden. 
 

Messier, Forsberg, Fedorov and Francis could have all easily been the captain. Those teams were stacked with leaders. Which is why they won multiple cups. Tampa is the same way. Hedman could easily be the captain. Same with Colorado and Makar. Most teams in today’s NHL aren’t loaded with those types of players though. Some don’t even have anyone qualified to be a captain but they pick someone anyways who isn’t really qualified. 
 

I don’t believe that a captain actually has to drop the gloves. Especially if they are the star player on the team. That type of player leads by example and is respected by his teammates by being the best player. However, other players who are captains who are physically capable of engaging in that type of activity should be able to at the very least play a physical game and get into scrums, push back on opponents cheap shots and in the rare instances get into a fight. 
 

Horvat is 215 pounds. He knows how to fight. We have seen that from him before and he’s actually not bad at it. So for him to simply not even engage the opposition with hits, face washes, getting into scrums, sticking up for teammates by at least getting into the opponents face, was very disappointing to see. Especially this year. This year he seemed to only focus on himself. He was rewarded for that with a retirement contract that he probably didn’t even think he could get prior to the start of the season. Good for him. I’m sure he is happy. However, I am very happy that management decided to keep Miller instead. He brings a lot more to the table than Horvat and is more than willing to use his 218 pounds to get into the opponents faces. 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Diduck was similar to Bieksa. I would give him an A for sure. But not the C. If I look at that 94 team I could see Ronning with the C. Adams would have been okay too.  But they weren’t even close to Linden. 
 

Messier, Forsberg, Fedorov and Francis could have all easily been the captain. Those teams were stacked with leaders. Which is why they won multiple cups. Tampa is the same way. Hedman could easily be the captain. Same with Colorado and Makar. Most teams in today’s NHL aren’t loaded with those types of players though. Some don’t even have anyone qualified to be a captain but they pick someone anyways who isn’t really qualified. 
 

I don’t believe that a captain actually has to drop the gloves. Especially if they are the star player on the team. That type of player leads by example and is respected by his teammates by being the best player. However, other players who are captains who are physically capable of engaging in that type of activity should be able to at the very least play a physical game and get into scrums, push back on opponents cheap shots and in the rare instances get into a fight. 
 

Horvat is 215 pounds. He knows how to fight. We have seen that from him before and he’s actually not bad at it. So for him to simply not even engage the opposition with hits, face washes, getting into scrums, sticking up for teammates by at least getting into the opponents face, was very disappointing to see. Especially this year. This year he seemed to only focus on himself. He was rewarded for that with a retirement contract that he probably didn’t even think he could get prior to the start of the season. Good for him. I’m sure he is happy. However, I am very happy that management decided to keep Miller instead. He brings a lot more to the table than Horvat and is more than willing to use his 218 pounds to get into the opponents faces. 

It’s still sinking in that we got so much for Bo. He’s a 50-60 point 2C (3C with us and other clubs) who is average defensively. Yet we got Hronek, Raty, and new Beau. Allvin sure did great on that trade. 

[Ted Lasso]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I don’t believe that a captain actually has to drop the gloves. Especially if they are the star player on the team. That type of player leads by example and is respected by his teammates by being the best player. However, other players who are captains who are physically capable of engaging in that type of activity should be able to at the very least play a physical game and get into scrums, push back on opponents cheap shots and in the rare instances get into a fight. 
 

Horvat is 215 pounds. He knows how to fight. We have seen that from him before and he’s actually not bad at it. So for him to simply not even engage the opposition with hits, face washes, getting into scrums, sticking up for teammates by at least getting into the opponents face, was very disappointing to see. Especially this year. This year he seemed to only focus on himself. He was rewarded for that with a retirement contract that he probably didn’t even think he could get prior to the start of the season. Good for him. I’m sure he is happy. However, I am very happy that management decided to keep Miller instead. He brings a lot more to the table than Horvat and is more than willing to use his 218 pounds to get into the opponents faces. 

IMO, the best summary of the expectation of physicality from a Captain that absolutely varies by skill level, size, durability and ability/willingness to fight.

 

Comparing Bo to Sedin, Naslund or MacDavid, in this argument is disingenuous.

[Ted Lasso]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s still sinking in that we got so much for Bo. He’s a 50-60 point 2C (3C with us and other clubs) who is average defensively. Yet we got Hronek, Raty, and new Beau. Allvin sure did great on that trade. 

It was a good trade…and we still don’t know the upside of Raty, or even Beauvillier (who may be a top 6 staple, or may return us a 2nd pick)

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said:

It was a good trade…and we still don’t know the upside of Raty, or even Beauvillier (who may be a top 6 staple, or may return us a 2nd pick)

Yup. Bo for Hronek is a win. We got two more pieces on top of that. And we didn’t get stuck with Bo at 8.5 x 8. 
When all factors are looked at, we really came out good. 

[Darius]

22 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Diduck was similar to Bieksa. I would give him an A for sure. But not the C. If I look at that 94 team I could see Ronning with the C. Adams would have been okay too.  But they weren’t even close to Linden. 
 

Messier, Forsberg, Fedorov and Francis could have all easily been the captain. Those teams were stacked with leaders. Which is why they won multiple cups. Tampa is the same way. Hedman could easily be the captain. Same with Colorado and Makar. Most teams in today’s NHL aren’t loaded with those types of players though. Some don’t even have anyone qualified to be a captain but they pick someone anyways who isn’t really qualified. 
 

I don’t believe that a captain actually has to drop the gloves. Especially if they are the star player on the team. That type of player leads by example and is respected by his teammates by being the best player. However, other players who are captains who are physically capable of engaging in that type of activity should be able to at the very least play a physical game and get into scrums, push back on opponents cheap shots and in the rare instances get into a fight. 
 

Horvat is 215 pounds. He knows how to fight. We have seen that from him before and he’s actually not bad at it. So for him to simply not even engage the opposition with hits, face washes, getting into scrums, sticking up for teammates by at least getting into the opponents face, was very disappointing to see. Especially this year. This year he seemed to only focus on himself. He was rewarded for that with a retirement contract that he probably didn’t even think he could get prior to the start of the season. Good for him. I’m sure he is happy. However, I am very happy that management decided to keep Miller instead. He brings a lot more to the table than Horvat and is more than willing to use his 218 pounds to get into the opponents faces. 

I’m biased towards Diduck - one of my all time favourites .  You must remember that 11-0 game  vs Calgary ( was it you that said you were at the game?)  where he fought a bunch - especially Paul kruse.  Quinn did a great job with some of those trades( Diduck , momesso, ronning)   Brought in a lot of tough players who could actually play.  We prob need two d men and two wingers with bite that can contribute. 
 

Regarding Horvat - yup he had flaws. He could have thrown his weight around more. I’ve been impressed with Miller in the second half - especially at how he kept his composure. I just hope he can keep this up into his thirties. Hopefully he does. It’s become obvious he wants to be here and be a long term part of the solution. 

[Ted Lasso]

21 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. Bo for Hronek is a win. We got two more pieces on top of that. And we didn’t get stuck with Bo at 8.5 x 8. 
When all factors are looked at, we really came out good. 

And an opportunity to shake up (and improve) the leadership. New coaches and a new Captain gives us a real chance to change the team identity and culture.

 

Hughes mentioned in the presser that everyone sticks up for each other, and that’s been noticeable and consistent in their play since the change.

[Westcoasting]

20 minutes ago, Darius said:

I’m biased towards Diduck - one of my all time favourites .  You must remember that 11-0 game  vs Calgary ( was it you that said you were at the game?)  where he fought a bunch - especially Paul kruse.  Quinn did a great job with some of those trades( Diduck , momesso, ronning)   Brought in a lot of tough players who could actually play.  We prob need two d men and two wingers with bite that can contribute. 
 

Regarding Horvat - yup he had flaws. He could have thrown his weight around more. I’ve been impressed with Miller in the second half - especially at how he kept his composure. I just hope he can keep this up into his thirties. Hopefully he does. It’s become obvious he wants to be here and be a long term part of the solution. 

Good time memories of Gerald Diduck  yeah he could flail with the best of them !!

[Slegr]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If the Canucks want a new captain they should let the players decide. That’s how I would do it. Then you will get a true captain who is respected by all. This should always be done this way unless you have someone who is a no brainer to be captain. 
 

My vote would be for JT Miller to be captain. My gut feeling is Petey doesn’t want to be captain. Hughes would be fine as well. But his brother isn’t the captain of New Jersey so I don’t think he is forcing himself to be a captain either.  
 

Let the two young superstars focus on hockey. Miller is very comfortable with the media and is like a father figure to the others. He’s a family man. Let him take the heat for the others and the media can have fun with him when he’s in a sh*tty mood. 

It’s not a bad idea. Half a season ago I would have said no way, but Miller really turned it around. When he’s going, he’s great. And he does fit the captain mold in many respects - he hits, scores, wears heart on sleeve, will fight, he’s big enough to protect himself, and competes hard. Plus he has character. 
When he’s in his bitchy mood, and forgetting about defense occasionally, he’s still entertaining. It wouldn’t be the worst thing to give him the C. I think.

[Elias Pettersson]

31 minutes ago, Darius said:

I’m biased towards Diduck - one of my all time favourites .  You must remember that 11-0 game  vs Calgary ( was it you that said you were at the game?)  where he fought a bunch - especially Paul kruse.  Quinn did a great job with some of those trades( Diduck , momesso, ronning)   Brought in a lot of tough players who could actually play.  We prob need two d men and two wingers with bite that can contribute. 
 

Regarding Horvat - yup he had flaws. He could have thrown his weight around more. I’ve been impressed with Miller in the second half - especially at how he kept his composure. I just hope he can keep this up into his thirties. Hopefully he does. It’s become obvious he wants to be here and be a long term part of the solution. 

Diduck was a beast.  Loved his game.  Hedican and Diduck made a great pairing on that 94 team and later on.  I remember alot of Diduck's fights.  I don't believe he lost too many of them.  We had many enforcers on that 94 team.  Off the top of my head we had Odjick, Antoski, Hunter, Momesso, Dirk and Diduck.  There may have been more, I can't remember.  The game has definitely changed, I don't think there is a scenario where all 6 of those guys could play on the same team now.  Maybe 2-3 of them max.  

 

Diduck vs. Kruse was a beauty.  Can't remember if I was at the game or not.  I probably went to over 300 games at the Pacific Coliseum, so hard to remember every one of them.  I found the fight on Youtube.  Now I remember, Kruse cheapshotted him to start the fight and Diduck ended up headbutting him at the end...