[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[-DLC-]

24 minutes ago, jyu said:

Might be good to watch other games if you have time before you blame the league or the refs for our lack  of physical play. 

LOL when you go low I'll go high.

 

I watch MANY other games. Resorting to that crap. speaks volumes.

 

Review Tyler Myers' penalty history to tell me this league gets it right. "Too tall" is mostly what his infractions have been. But sure.

 

But done here, not playing this game. Refs are awesome, gotcha.

 

 

[Jaimito]

From a video posted by Shannon in July 2021 

 

 

 

 

[jyu]

3 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

LOL when you go low I'll go high.

 

I watch MANY other games. Resorting to that crap. speaks volumes.

 

Review Tyler Myers' penalty history to tell me this league gets it right. "Too tall" is mostly what his infractions have been. But sure.

 

But done here, not playing this game. Refs are awesome, gotcha.

 

 

You watch many other games and reached that conclusion?

 

 It wasn’t low it was just an advice. Blaming the refs is getting old honestly. 
 

To say we are not playing physical because we are afraid of the refs it’s just downright… well embarrassing. I don’t know what else to say. If the team is truly playing timid because of the refs and the league, there really needs to be a formal complaint against the league followed by an investigation.

Myers is a tall guy and he will be the first to tell you that he inadvertently elbowed a lot of guys because of his height. 
 

I get complaints from people about my elbow when i play contact sports and I’m only 6’3. When you have five inches on someone, you can’t help it but just be mindful of your body.  The refs can’t not call the penalty because “oh that’s Myers, I’m sure he didn’t intend to elbow the guy, he’s just tall that is all.”

[-DLC-]

I'm really curious to see how Bo pans out on a new team. He was finding success here on an individual basis, even if that wasn't translating to overall team success. Will be interesting to see if he was just more familiar/comfortable here and found his groove despite it all. Or if this team was holding him back and he reaches his full potential elsewhere. I'll be rooting for him to do well, but time will tell if he made the right move by holding out or if persistence here might've paid off.

[MattWN.]

15 hours ago, BPA said:

How do you figure that???

 

Not the best stat but Miller is -14 while Bo is +3.

When you take into account the past few seasons, Miller was a more effective defensive forward. It wasn't until this year when Miller fell off the rails with his dzone play. He was one of the better two way players last year while netting 99 points. 

[Gawdzukes]

55 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Use your words @jyu

 

Do you feel we get good officiating and can play a physical game? I've been watching this team a whole lot....I'm pretty sure it's quite lopsided.

It's hilarious that people think the refs are out solely to gang up on the Canucks. 

 

Like honestly look at yourself in the mirror. Do you honestly believe that it is so important to the NHL that the Canucks fail that they purposely cheat and spend time plotting against us? Maybe we're just not that good and hockey is full of hard to judge and questionable calls?

 

 

[MattWN.]

5 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I'm really curious to see how Bo pans out on a new team. He was finding success here on an individual basis, even if that wasn't translating to overall team success. Will be interesting to see if he was just more familiar/comfortable here and found his groove despite it all. Or if this team was holding him back and he reaches his full potential elsewhere. I'll be routing for him to do well, but time will tell if he made the right move by holding out or if persistence here might've paid off.

I don't think theres much doubt he's going to drop like a rock in production. NYI won't allow him to cheat offensively like he's been free to do in Vancouver. There's a reason why NYI has no 20 goal players, and Vancouver has 3, with miller sitting at 18. Not to mention 1/3 of Bo's points have come on the PP, and the Islanders have a league worst PP at 15%. Signing long term with the Islanders will no doubt end any conversations of Bo being anywhere near a 50G player.

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

It's hilarious that people think the refs are out solely to gang up on the Canucks. 

 

 

 

 

I don't recall saying that.

 

 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

1 hour ago, jyu said:

This was true maybe a while ago. 
 

I feel embarrassed blaming the refs these days. We get a lot of power play opportunities of our own each game. 
 

And i think most of the penalties we get called for are reasonable. They do make mistakes yes, but it’s on the team to kill those off so as to not let it decide the game because all of the other teams suffer from poor and random officiating. 
 

A lot of the new referees that came in don’t really have animosity or hate towards our team or the players. 
 

We haven’t really had any player suspended as of late either so I don’t quite like this narrative of the book thrown at us while other teams and other players get away free. 

I would say there is much room to grow in terms of officiating improvements, but I won't use it as an excuse when cheering for the Canucks. I didn't and won't use it where most people need to vent about a certain year sandwiched between 2010 and 2012 or the handling of Canucks during the Finals in 1994. When Vancouver got away with stuff and it was quite prevalent in the 2008 to 2013 range for example where the team was having much success. Time and again you would see our guys get away with something and the other team's players or coaches losing it. We wouldn't complain we would laugh. 

 

End of the day it truly goes both ways and will never be perfect, human element won't allow for it. 

[MattWN.]

Officiating is just bad, period. Every fanbase believes the refs are out to get them, even Boston (and the league basically handed them a cup)

I gotta say though, Tyler Myers deserves the VAST majority of the penalties he's called for, most of which seem to be stick infractions (hooking, tripping, holding) 

I think he gets a hard rap when it comes to some of the calls like elbowing/boarding/roughing when being 3-6 inches taller than everybody can be difficult to escape.

[Elias Pettersson]

10 hours ago, BPA said:

Lol.

 

So you’re not taking into account that he’s been on a bad team for pretty much his entire career??  That he’s often put on the defensive duties against other teams top lines??

 

Miller joined the Canucks in 2019.

+11

-7

+15

-14

 

Bo from 2019

-15

-6

+3

+3

 

Neither are defensive stalwarts.  BUT who does the coach put out to take the draws or go against the other teams top lines?? Who does the coach put out there in the dying minutes??  It’s Bo every time.

 

So don’t tell me the Miller is so much better at defending than Bo when that is far from the truth.

 

You are the one who put up the plus/minus stat from this year to claim that BO was better defensively, not me.  I simply looked at all years like you are supposed to.  

 

At the end of the day, nobody cares about plus/minus as it's basically a team stat.  If your team sucks, your plus/minus will suck.  BOTH players suck defensively, and neither one are Selke type players at all.  BO gets put out in defensive situations because he is forced to, not because he is good at it.  Miller is much better in the offensive zone so the coaches leave him on the bench for defensive faceoffs.  Last year Miller was much better defensively than he is playing this year.  If he actually tries he is not that bad.  

[jyu]

8 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

I would say there is much room to grow in terms of officiating improvements, but I won't use it as an excuse when cheering for the Canucks. I didn't and won't use it where most people need to vent about a certain year sandwiched between 2010 and 2012 or the handling of Canucks during the Finals in 1994. When Vancouver got away with stuff and it was quite prevalent in the 2008 to 2013 range for example where the team was having much success. Time and again you would see our guys get away with something and the other team's players or coaches losing it. We wouldn't complain we would laugh. 

 

End of the day it truly goes both ways and will never be perfect, human element won't allow for it. 

Well said.

 

I recently moved to NY and so I am forced to watch NY based teams. And thanks to time zone difference, I watch the Canucks right after those games. And that has changed my mind over officiating in general.

 

Living in Vancouver watching predominantly Canucks games and some of the other Canadian teams, mostly Edmonton and Calgary, I really didn't like the officiating, the league, DoPS, and etc. Even in 2004, I thought the Flames should have won the cup in game 6 and thought that their cup got stolen to help boost popularity of the Florida team in Tampa.

 

During those years you mentioned, 2008-2013, I did feel like our success was prevented from the league. For example, Burrows-Auger incident, Rome hit on Horton and subsequent 4 game suspension, and Daniel Sedin getting a 5 minute major against the Sharks in game 4 in 2013 just to name a few. 

 

Maybe it is true, maybe the league and the refs were biased towards certain outcomes in the past. Or maybe I'm just biased because I love the Canucks. I will never know but I think it's possible that there were some biases involved back in the day when less money was involved and the league was smaller in comparison to now.

 

I've been roaming these forums since 2003 (when this forum just about came to existence). The common theme then and throughout the years was the corrupted league and the refs. But recently, I noticed less and less of those remarks here, which I'm glad to see because I can tell that officiating has improved quite a bit compared to back then. Game management still exists, especially in the playoffs but much better compared to the prior years.

 

I think it's time we move away from those unsubstantiated comments if possible. Sure, the refs will make mistakes and we can discuss that here but it's a bit disappointing to blame the refs for something that's clearly not their fault. 

 

[BPA]

9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You are the one who put up the plus/minus stat from this year to claim that BO was better defensively, not me.  I simply looked at all years like you are supposed to.  

 

At the end of the day, nobody cares about plus/minus as it's basically a team stat.  If your team sucks, your plus/minus will suck.  BOTH players suck defensively, and neither one are Selke type players at all.  BO gets put out in defensive situations because he is forced to, not because he is good at it.  Miller is much better in the offensive zone so the coaches leave him on the bench for defensive faceoffs.  Last year Miller was much better defensively than he is playing this year.  If he actually tries he is not that bad.  

That is the truth.

 

I never claimed Bo was better defensively.  I put that stat out to refute the previous poster statement that Miller was defensively better than Bo.  That is simply not the case.

[MattWN.]

3 minutes ago, jyu said:

I've been roaming these forums since 2003 (when this forum just about came to existence). The common theme then and throughout the years was the corrupted league and the refs. But recently, I noticed less and less of those remarks here, which I'm glad to see because I can tell that officiating has improved quite a bit compared to back then. Game management still exists, especially in the playoffs but much better compared to the prior years.

 

I think it's time we move away from those unsubstantiated comments if possible. Sure, the refs will make mistakes and we can discuss that here but it's a bit disappointing to blame the refs for something that's clearly not their fault. 

 

They're only quiet because our team is irrelevant. Once we start playing for something again, everyone will be vocal again.

[jyu]

Use your words @-DLC-! 

 

lol just kidding. Have a nice day! Sorry if I ruined your mood.

 

At the end of the day... Go Canucks Go!

[jyu]

3 minutes ago, MattWN. said:

They're only quiet because our team is irrelevant. Once we start playing for something again, everyone will be vocal again.

Perhaps you are right. 

 

I hope not though.

 

And to be honest, when the team is good again, I could be one of those people screaming here about the officiating.

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

43 minutes ago, MattWN. said:

I don't think theres much doubt he's going to drop like a rock in production. NYI won't allow him to cheat offensively like he's been free to do in Vancouver. There's a reason why NYI has no 20 goal players, and Vancouver has 3, with miller sitting at 18. Not to mention 1/3 of Bo's points have come on the PP, and the Islanders have a league worst PP at 15%. Signing long term with the Islanders will no doubt end any conversations of Bo being anywhere near a 50G player.

Do the Isles have already a dedicated checking line?  I don't follow that team.  Unlike the situation here where Bo had to handle the tougher defensive assignments.  He won't have to cheat offensively in that he could be put in a fully offensive role (maybe have Barzal as a linemate).  Miller's production might be the player who's production drops since he'll take on even more defensive assignments with Horvat gone.

[MattWN.]

6 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Do the Isles have already a dedicated checking line?  I don't follow that team.  Unlike the situation here where Bo had to handle the tougher defensive assignments.  He won't have to cheat offensively in that he could be put in a fully offensive role (maybe have Barzal as a linemate).  Miller's production might be the player who's production drops since he'll take on even more defensive assignments with Horvat gone.

Horvat didn't take on a defensive role here, or play in a shutdown role. He took defensive zone draws, and then made a line change. The times where he was on the ice in a match up role, we were caved in. Maybe that's more on the team, than Bo alone. But theres a reason this team has given up a record number of 5 goal games.

 

Pageau's line is probably the shut down line, but really all their lines are capable on both ends. The team as whole plays a D first structure, so it makes it a lot easier when everyone does their part. 

 

I don't think Miller will be taking on any more of a defensive role with Bo gone, if anything he'll be more of a producer on the PP getting more touches with the puck. 1/3 of Bo's points came on the PP, and Miller will be one of the guys in a spot to pick that slack up.

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Do the Isles have already a dedicated checking line?  I don't follow that team.  Unlike the situation here where Bo had to handle the tougher defensive assignments.  He won't have to cheat offensively in that he could be put in a fully offensive role (maybe have Barzal as a linemate).  Miller's production might be the player who's production drops since he'll take on even more defensive assignments with Horvat gone.

The Islanders have Pageau who is very good defensively and is also great at faceoffs.  I assume BO will play with Barzal and will play primarily in an offensive role.  However, as the other poster pointed out, the Islanders PP sucks so not sure that BO will be getting all those bumper spot goals like he was in Vancouver.  And the Islanders are a Lou team that play with alot of defensive structure, so BO won't be able to cheat offensively either.

 

Last year Barzal had 59 points and was their leading scorer.  This year he is on pace for 68 points.  The chances of BO getting 80+ points with the Islanders is almost zero.  He may regress back to his 60 point pace, maybe 65 points.  He won't be getting all those PP goals with the Islanders.  But if he signs his retirement contract with them then it won't matter anyways.  Once he puts pen to paper it will be the same as Miller, neither one will be forced to have career years any longer.  Miller will be his PPG guy and BO will be the 60-65 point guy.

[MattWN.]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Islanders have Pageau who is very good defensively and is also great at faceoffs.  I assume BO will play with Barzal and will play primarily in an offensive role.  However, as the other poster pointed out, the Islanders PP sucks so not sure that BO will be getting all those bumper spot goals like he was in Vancouver.  And the Islanders are a Lou team that play with alot of defensive structure, so BO won't be able to cheat offensively either.

 

Last year Barzal had 59 points and was their leading scorer.  This year he is on pace for 68 points.  The chances of BO getting 80+ points with the Islanders is almost zero.  He may regress back to his 60 point pace, maybe 65 points.  He won't be getting all those PP goals with the Islanders.  But if he signs his retirement contract with them then it won't matter anyways.  Once he puts pen to paper it will be the same as Miller, neither one will be forced to have career years any longer.  Miller will be his PPG guy and BO will be the 60-65 point guy.

Bang on there.