[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Dallas Stars | Feb. 27, 2023

[RWJC]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

In reading that article, it says that Leonard was coming off a major injury the previous season and had only played 9 games.  So, the Raptors were "load managing" him by trying to get him back into shape and limiting his starts until he was fully healthy.  

 

Also, according to the article, you actually need league permission to "loan manage" a player and need to provide medical documentation to the league:

 

In order to get permission to sit Leonard — or anyone else for that matter — for load management reasons, Toronto must first provide medical documentation to the league. It should also be noted that not all requests are necessarily granted.

“Teams must contact the League Office when they are considering sitting a player in circumstances that might violate the Player Resting Policy,” the league said in an email to Sportsnet. “In limited circumstances, load management may provide a legitimate basis for a team not to play a player without violating the Player Resting Policy including, for example, a player who plays in most games but is restricted from playing in back-to-back games or in other unusual circumstances for legitimate medical reasons that have been documented and shared with the League Office.

 

That has nothing to do with Petey, Kuzy and Hughes anyways who are 100% healthy.  And even if they were a bit banged up, players want to play.  If you force them to sit out that will piss them off and create more problems than it solves.  Pissing Petey off to the point where he wants out kinda undermines the whole idea of tanking and getting Bedard.  Plus, it creates a big problem in the dressing room.  All for a shot at Bedard.  What happens if you don't get Bedard?  And then you lose Petey too?  This scenario can backfire big time on this team.

 

At the end of the day, you just have to hope that our AHL defence will not hold up. Demko will be rusty and not at his best, and we will lose more games than we win.  

How do you know they are playing 100% healthy? And that article was written in 2019 when it was an innovative practice (according to media). Now it’s commonplace across pro sports, but really it’s just a label applied to a practice that has long been employed even prior to it being publicized. 

 

More recently, Look at playoff teams who have clinched position the last few seasons towards end of year and you’ll see many of the top tier talent intermittently rested. TOR GM now has 8-9 viable Dmen for the playoffs. Why? So he can rest the likes of Reilly and Gio down the stretch when the games matter less and the health of the personnel going into post matter more.

Marek and his guest on his show just a few mins ago even commented on how load mgmt is common practice and part and parcel of why teams load up at TDL. 
 

I’d rather EP and QH have a long shelf life with this club than worn down playing high minutes in a futile pursuit. Yeah they want their ice time, and they get it, but they obviously understand this team is going through transition. And they’re still getting paid regardless. If they want to put their stats above the best current interest of the club, then what does that say about who these players are? 
 

you’re worrying about potential reaction without factoring how much of a beating a guy like QH has already taken this season. Go back and watch a few games…the kid has been abused by other teams to a point he should be filing a police report!

Edited February 28, 2023 by RWJC

[Goal:thecup]

We only have one more game before the TDL.

I hope that all the players we want to move have their best game ever (and never again after being moved).

 

Then the line between the tank-only and the take-the-tank-as-it-comes groups will get blurrier and blurrier (it's a word; I looked it up lol) until we are all one big happy CDC fan-ily again.

Go Canucks Go!  (Then not so much Go after Thursday's game.) 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, RWJC said:

How do you know they are playing 100% healthy? And that article was written in 2019 when it was an innovative practice. Now it’s commonplace across pro sports, but really it’s just a label applied to a practice that has long been employed even prior to it being publicized. 

 

More recently, Look at playoff teams who have clinched position the last few seasons towards end of year and you’ll see many of the top tier talent intermittently rested. TOR GM now has 8-9 viable Dmen for the playoffs. Why? So he can rest the likes of Reilly and Gio down the stretch when the games matter less and the health of the personnel going into post matter more.

Marek and his guest on his show just a few mins ago even commented on how load mgmt is common practice and part and parcel of why teams load up at TDL. 
 

I’d rather EP and QH have a long shelf life with this club than worn down playing high minutes in a futile pursuit. Yeah they want their ice time, and they get it, but they obviously understand this team is going through transition. And they’re still getting paid regardless. If they want to put their stats above the best current interest of the club, then what does that say about who these players are? 
 

you’re worrying about potential reaction without factoring how much of a beating a guy like QH has already taken this season. Go back and watch a few games…the kid has been abused by other teams to a point he should be filing a police report!

I don't know if they are 100% healthy or not, which is why I said even if they were a bit banged up they still want to play.  

 

The highlighted statement doesn't make alot of sense.  You are basically saying that Petey and Hughes should play less minutes or even sit out for the betterment of the team, i.e. tank hard for Bedard, and if they don't agree to that then they are somehow bad people and bad teammates.  Who said they are playing just to pad their stats?  You think Petey is playing hockey right now just so he can hit 100 points?  Same with Hughes, to try and break some records and get that next big contract?  You don't think they are professional athletes who are programmed to win and play their best each and every game no matter what?

 

Wow, just wow.  I have no more words really.  It's better just to end this debate.  It's not helpful anymore to be honest with you.

[RWJC]

37 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I don't know if they are 100% healthy or not, which is why I said even if they were a bit banged up they still want to play.  

 

The highlighted statement doesn't make alot of sense.  You are basically saying that Petey and Hughes should play less minutes or even sit out for the betterment of the team, i.e. tank hard for Bedard, and if they don't agree to that then they are somehow bad people and bad teammates.  Who said they are playing just to pad their stats?  You think Petey is playing hockey right now just so he can hit 100 points?  Same with Hughes, to try and break some records and get that next big contract?  You don't think they are professional athletes who are programmed to win and play their best each and every game no matter what?

 

Wow, just wow.  I have no more words really.  It's better just to end this debate.  It's not helpful anymore to be honest with you.

 

im just arguing the merits of load mgmt and why it might be a good idea for this club and a few key members who will be HEAVILY relied upon as our future. I think it’s a wise investment in protecting those key assets. 
 

and yeah the bold part makes sense because some players require to be coached/trained/managed so that they can maintain or exceed production when it’s most needed. 
again…I will bring up Demko and what we have witnessed with his career as of late. If you think that can’t happen to a QH or EP, and that a lesson should be learned from and protective measures in place that way, then I really don’t feel as though you’re adequately gauging the long term value of the health of the players you support. You want QH playing 30+ mins a night in a throw away season? That’s high risk, but ok, you do you.

 

I want to see what’s next for this club in terms of some pieces we can pencil in for training camp next season that might surprise and stick. It’s early to do so, but given where we are heading, I think it totally best to accommodate our top talent, while at the same time opening opportunities for the next iteration of this roster. 
 

you give some of the top talent an intermittent rest and in those games perhaps you see other players evolve into leadership role or up their play in absence of the go to guys. This team can afford that now that we arent chasing playoffs. 
finally a focused opportunity for thorough assessment across the board.

Edited February 28, 2023 by RWJC

[Dr. Crossbar]

13 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Wow, just wow.  I have no more words really.  It's better just to end this debate.  It's not helpful anymore to be honest with you.

That was 16 more words after you said you had no more words. 17 if you include "really".

 

I have a thing for pointing that out whenever people say "I have no words." I'm always like ... that was 4 words. 

 

Carry on.

[OldFaithfulCap]

32 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I don't know if they are 100% healthy or not, which is why I said even if they were a bit banged up they still want to play.  

 

The highlighted statement doesn't make alot of sense.  You are basically saying that Petey and Hughes should play less minutes or even sit out for the betterment of the team, i.e. tank hard for Bedard, and if they don't agree to that then they are somehow bad people and bad teammates.  Who said they are playing just to pad their stats?  You think Petey is playing hockey right now just so he can hit 100 points?  Same with Hughes, to try and break some records and get that next big contract?  You don't think they are professional athletes who are programmed to win and play their best each and every game no matter what?

 

Wow, just wow.  I have no more words really.  It's better just to end this debate.  It's not helpful anymore to be honest with you.

it is all hypotheticals of course but here

are some articles to read. 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/23/does-the-nhl-have-a-tanking-problemhttps://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/23/does-the-nhl-have-a-tanking-problem

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-must-fix-load-management-problem-by-working-with-players-to-protect-the-popularity-of-the-league/amp/

 

 

 

[OldFaithfulCap]

39 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I don't know if they are 100% healthy or not, which is why I said even if they were a bit banged up they still want to play.  

 

The highlighted statement doesn't make alot of sense.  You are basically saying that Petey and Hughes should play less minutes or even sit out for the betterment of the team, i.e. tank hard for Bedard, and if they don't agree to that then they are somehow bad people and bad teammates.  Who said they are playing just to pad their stats?  You think Petey is playing hockey right now just so he can hit 100 points?  Same with Hughes, to try and break some records and get that next big contract?  You don't think they are professional athletes who are programmed to win and play their best each and every game no matter what?

 

Wow, just wow.  I have no more words really.  It's better just to end this debate.  It's not helpful anymore to be honest with you.

There are many cases where that makes sense by the way. Not doubleshifting a player who us chasing goals for a record if you've made the playoffs. Sitting guys like many teams do close to the playoffs. 

[OldFaithfulCap]

1 hour ago, Goal:thecup said:

After the TDL.

For the next couple days or so, we want all the players we no longer want to look their best.

If we trade guys like boeser then moving from slot 4 to 5 is ok, my worry is that we won't. 
 

We all just want to win. 

 

It's funny as i really think tocchet is not going to work here and the front office will be gone 2 years from now. But that will assume we stay a middle team for the next 2 years and only proof of that will be in 2 years.

Edited February 28, 2023 by OldFaithfulCap

[Goal:thecup]

Just now, OldFaithfulCap said:

If we trade guys like boeser then moving from slot 4 to 5 is ok, my worry is that we won't. 
 

We all just want to win. 

 

It's funny as i really think tocchet is not going to work here and the front office will be gone 2 years from now. But that will assume we stay a middle team for the next 2 years and only proof of that will be in 2 years.

Wow; you really are depressed OFC.

Better ride in the back of the band wagon until you get your mojo back.

[OldFaithfulCap]

4 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Wow; you really are depressed OFC.

Better ride in the back of the band wagon until you get your mojo back.

I'm depressed regardless (is there such thing as a perpetually optimistic canuck fan????)I do think tocchet is the wrong hire for the modern game anyway. We shall see.

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by OldFaithfulCap
h

[Goal:thecup]

8 minutes ago, OldFaithfulCap said:

I'm depressed regardless (is there such thing as a perpetual optimistic canuck fan????)I do think tocchet is the wrong hire for the modern game anyway. We shall see.

 

 

I can help you get your Mojo back, but first:

[OldFaithfulCap]

16 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

I can help you get your Mojo back, but first:

All jokes aside I'm not a huge fan of bipolar as a diagnosis but i definitely am a high functioning depressive.

 

I should say that even though i think we're going to blow the tank, that firing bruce mid-season was dumb and that tocchet was the wrong hire I still spend about 90 mins all up on making the Game Day threads. I still read a bunch of out of town newspapers/hockey sites on opponents, watch highlights, collate stats, check twitter and make photoshop adjustments. Why do I bother? because this has been my team for better or worse since 1990.

 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: Canucks fans who are intolerant of other fans differing beliefs and anyone who likes Boston.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by OldFaithfulCap
s

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Goal:thecup]

5 minutes ago, OldFaithfulCap said:

All jokes aside I'm not a huge fan of bipolar as a diagnosis but i definitely am a high functioning depressive.

 

I should say that even though i think we're going to blow the tank, that firing bruce mid-season was dumb and that tocchet was the wrong hire I still spend about 90 mins all up on making the Game Day threads. I still read a bunch of out of town newspapers/hockey sites on opponents, watch highlights, collate stats, check twitter and make photoshop adjustments. Why do I bother? because this has been my team for better or worse since 1990.

 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: Canucks fans who are intolerant of other fans differing beliefs and anyone who likes Boston.

 

 

I apologize for my insensitivity and hope that I did not hurt or offend you in any way.

For the most part, I just try to have fun all the time and try to drag others down that path.

 

I force myself to smile as soon as I wake up and that helps me look forward to the day.

It also helps other people smile and feel better too; sounds silly I know, but it works for me.

 

Take care Bud, and thanks for all your work on the GDTs; for a while there it was just me or Deb.

This is a tough year for Canucks fans and next year might be too; can't get too mired in it and keep looking for the good bits.

 

I like all the new players and prospects and hope management has more up their sleeves for the next couple days too.

Cheers!  All the best.

[Nuxfanabroad]

@OldFaithfulCap Also really appreciate the time you put into these GDT's(vintage sense of humour too)

 

Regards to your post above, often think of this quote: "To be well-adjusted in a profoundly sick society is no sign of a healthy individual." ~Krishnamurti

[alt kilgore]

16 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If we can find Hughes a partner like a younger version of Tanev, I think he has a legit shot at the Norris trophy. Similar to when Makar got Toews…

I just want to say that Burroughs has played such a quiet, efficient way since he was inserted back into the lineup.  As soon as Bear went down, who did Tocchet put in to play with him?  Burroughs.  I love his physicality and his fighting, but I think new coaches have told him to focus more on his defensive play lately, and it shows.  He's unnoticable for all the right reasons. He gets to a loose puck fast, and gets rid of it fast, but seems to always find someone to pass it up to...one of our players not one of theirs. That's Myers specialty.

 

I know ultimately Hughes needs a Seabrook type of partner. (or a Tanev) But before we manage to get that, I think Burroughs is a great standin.  He is the closest to Schenn's way of playing if Luke does leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Devron]

42 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Settle down Ricky. Hughes is too good to be playing him that much 

[Oldmanpower]

40 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

I’m really not a fan of this and not because i want to lose. I don’t want to risk losing one of the best defensemen the Canucks have ever had to injury in a non playoff season. Surely 20-22 minutes is plenty I would think. I understand our defensemen cupboard is under stocked but surely other defenders on our team can play more minutes. This amaka no sense to me.

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Oldmanpower said:

I’m really not a fan of this and not because i want to lose. I don’t want to risk losing one of the best defensemen the Canucks have ever had to injury in a non playoff season. Surely 20-22 minutes is plenty I would think. I understand our defensemen cupboard is under stocked but surely other defenders on our team can play more minutes. This amaka no sense to me.

For me it wreaks of desperation from the coach to squeeze as much out of our stars as possible to get some late season wins. 

[OldFaithfulCap]

40 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

I apologize for my insensitivity and hope that I did not hurt or offend you in any way.

For the most part, I just try to have fun all the time and try to drag others down that path.

 

I force myself to smile as soon as I wake up and that helps me look forward to the day.

It also helps other people smile and feel better too; sounds silly I know, but it works for me.

 

Take care Bud, and thanks for all your work on the GDTs; for a while there it was just me or Deb.

This is a tough year for Canucks fans and next year might be too; can't get too mired in it and keep looking for the good bits.

 

I like all the new players and prospects and hope management has more up their sleeves for the next couple days too.

Cheers!  All the best.

You're fine, I don't get hypersensitive about most labels and I don't think you said anything bad.

 

It certainly was a hell of a strange year to return to here, but had some fun. Funnily enough i was mr optimistic in the early GDTs as i'd hope things could turn around. Alas. I'm still more than happy to stand aside for others to do GDTs but hard to drum up interest.

 

Tank stuff aside, it is good to see Brisebois, Juulsen and Wolanin and the younger guys show they are NHL caliber and better options than the declining Myes/oel combo. The problem is I still want Bedard to come here even if its a fool's hope (i don't think fantilli, carlsson or michkov are on the same level though they'll be good in a few years) but i like the idea of dvorsky in a nucks jersey one day.