Ilunga Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, IBatch said: Lol. Sounds like me closer to the draft ... used to do it every year, but for selfish reasons, to find gems for future hockey pools. But for sure it's a crapshoot over time. Every draft has had its surprises, and its whiffs. Nolan Patrick. Yakupov. OJ. Lots of Torres types that play a lot of games but aren't really what you're hoping for with a higher pick, Gudbranson is a good current example of that. And a lot of Phillips/Jovo's too, a level up, definitely solid picks. This team needs an EK, or Pastrnak, Smyl, or Edler or two as well. As in mid first round, later first round, and some god darn 3rd rounders to make the team and have a huge return based on draft position. Look at what having just two does for a teams fortunes in EP and QHs. Glad Tochett is putting in a system. And I think everyone knows we can't win with this D without everyone pitching in. And that our goaltending is a fairly easy patch - it's a huge part of why we aren't in the playoff hunt now instead. Baby steps, bites of the elephant are fine as long as our scouting staff doesn't blow it. Yes I am doing it for drafting purposes in regards to the leagues I am a member of, also to take my mind of $hit IRL. The potential players that can contribute to a reasonable degree seems to be a bit deeper in this draft and I do believe there is some real gems to choose from with our early third if the chips fall right. I am totally with you on the systems comment. All team sports are now systems based, players knowing their role and playing it well. The old adage, A champion team will beat a team of champions is more pertinent than ever. Edited February 28, 2023 by Ilunga 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 59 minutes ago, IBatch said: 1979-1983 ish will be tough to beat, loaded with future HHOFers. Not so sure about this draft managing to keep up with all the hype ... these kids missed significant development time as a group. The echo chamber outside of the true experts, and one upping the hype has definitely created a frenzy of sorts. A lot of parroting ... not to be the devils advocate but before the world juniors which is also weighted too heavily, the message was "it's an above average draft because of the quality of the talent at the top (Beddard etc)"..." "past that it's more crap shooting then normal, covid etc" paraphrased - from ISS / THN. Read on here too many times "this years seconds are like firsts" "this years late firsts are top 15 picks". For our case, it won't matter much unless "this years 8-12th overalls are like normal years top 5 picks" etc etc. If there ever was a year to tank, this would be a great one for sure. Usually by this time the following draft (2024) is getting hyped ... Haven't heard about a Jack Hughes (who was hyped a ton, going back to age 13-14), McDavid, Beddard etc. Most likely the Canucks need two great drafts to sort ourselves out. Trading Kuzmenko and Beau would be a tank commander move - but who's left that would even consider going there? Florida? Doubt it they blew their wad last season didn't work out. CAR maybe sure. Personally wouldn't do it unless they matched the insanity TB did with NSH, adding the value that it is a guy who looks like a 40 plus goal scorer ... on a sweet two year deal. Yep. The moment usually seems bigger than it actually is when it is happening (e.g. right now). Just looking at the first two of those years... 1979. Ray Bourque Mark Messier Mike Gartner Michel Goulet Glenn Anderson Brian Propp Rick Vaive Kevin Lowe Paul Reinhart Dale Hunter Neal Broten Guy Carbonneau Dirk Graham Thomas Steen Anton Stastny Brad McCrimmon Pelle Lindbergh Mats Naslund John Ogrodnick Rob Ramage Mike Foligno Laurie Boschman Doug Crossman Mike Krushelnyski Mike Ramsey Jim Peplinski Duane Sutter Perry Turnbull Craig Hartsburg Laurie Boschman Keith Brown Brent Ashton Lindy Ruff Pat Riggin Rick Wamsley Rollie Melanson 1980. Denis Savard Paul Coffey Jari Kurri Larry Murphy Bernie Nicholls Steve Larmer Dave Babych Don Beaupre Andy Moog Kelly Hrudey Brent Sutter Hakan Loob Troy Murray Patrik Sundstrom Steve Kasper James Patrick Barry Pederson (en route to a slam dunk for the HOF before injury) Mike Bullard Walt Poddubny Craig Ludwig Tom Fergus Aaron Broten Mike McPhee Reijo Ruotsalainen Brian Mullen Randy Cunneyworth Doug Lidster Steve Bozek Craig Muni Moe Mantha Mark Osborne Ric Nattress 2023 will be hard pressed to compete with that. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: Yes I am doing it for drafting purposes in regards to the leagues I am a member of, also to take my mind of $hit IRL. The potential players that can contribute to a reasonable degree seems to be a bit deeper in this draft and I do believe there is some real gems to choose from with our early third if the chips fall right. I am totally with you on the systems comment. All team sports are now systems based, players knowing their role and playing it well. The old adage, A champion team will best a team of champions is more pertinent than ever. We won't be able to judge 2023 properly until 2030. So patience is also a requirement. Funny how that works. EP was crowned the champion too early in his draft. Makar was developed for a couple years. But EP was the crowned first overall after his rookie season and again his sophomore year. Whomever we do pick, it's highly unlikely we see him in the lineup until 2025. And that's best case. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Yep. The moment usually seems bigger than it actually is when it is happening (e.g. right now). Just looking at the first two of those years... 1979. Ray Bourque Mark Messier Mike Gartner Michel Goulet Glenn Anderson Brian Propp Rick Vaive Kevin Lowe Paul Reinhart Dale Hunter Neal Broten Guy Carbonneau Dirk Graham Thomas Steen Anton Stastny Brad McCrimmon Pelle Lindbergh Mats Naslund John Ogrodnick Rob Ramage Mike Foligno Laurie Boschman Doug Crossman Mike Krushelnyski Mike Ramsey Jim Peplinski Duane Sutter Perry Turnbull Craig Hartsburg Laurie Boschman Keith Brown Brent Ashton Lindy Ruff Pat Riggin Rick Wamsley Rollie Melanson 1980. Denis Savard Paul Coffey Jari Kurri Larry Murphy Bernie Nicholls Steve Larmer Dave Babych Don Beaupre Andy Moog Kelly Hrudey Brent Sutter Hakan Loob Troy Murray Patrik Sundstrom Steve Kasper James Patrick Barry Pederson (en route to a slam dunk for the HOF before injury) Mike Bullard Walt Poddubny Craig Ludwig Tom Fergus Aaron Broten Mike McPhee Reijo Ruotsalainen Brian Mullen Randy Cunneyworth Doug Lidster Steve Bozek Craig Muni Moe Mantha Mark Osborne Ric Nattress 2023 will be hard pressed to compete with that. No doubt. Two top five all-time defenseman, arguably 2 and 3rd ... behind Orr. Messier a top ten all-time forward. One of the best Europeans ever. Those drafts were sick. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: They traded BO for futures mostly. If they wanted to compete for the playoffs or be a better team, they would have kept him for sure. They shut down Mikheyev only after they realized that they weren't gonna make the playoffs. He wanted to play up until that point. It didn't make sense for him to continue playing, better to have the surgery now to be ready for next season. They held out Demko for as long as possible because they weren't in a rush to get him back. They were out of the playoffs, so it didn't matter anymore. So, no I am not suggesting that the Canucks purposely made those moves to tank, although I have seen that brought up here. My post didn't mean to infer all of that even though it may have sounded that way... Sharps I usually read your posts with great interest as your insight is valued. All Canuck fans don’t like the losing seasons. My avenue for change is drafting as low as possible so the core of team leadership can be as talented as possible. This is no guarantee for success but it is what it is. How do I want management to approach what is left of the season? Just as Tocchet has said. Focus on process more than worrying about wins/losses. Play the core but at ‘normal’ TOI. Rotate 2-3 prospects thru games for their development. When PA sent Hogs, Podz and Aman down to Abby I thought finally a GM who sees value in developing players. The most critical imperative within the org post TDL is Abby making playoffs. Certainly not the Canucks climbing in the standings. All this aside IMHO Tocchet has the team playing much better hockey and could easily pull them higher. You were asking why watch if you want the team to lose. I am a fan. I watch to see what Tocchet is trying, how the players are responding, how the new players are performing, how are the core responding to the hard times. Which players are digging harder and don’t want to accept defeat. If that means they win games then good for them. I still want a 5-4 loss, in regulation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Demko is back... time to park the tank in the garage... its better for the mental health. Though Pods played a really engaged and good game. Beau alone is almost worth the deal with Bo... ok, Beau with the 1st is worth the deal for Bo, so it shall be interesting to see if Raty becomes a player... Think the team plays more structured, and tries to make the safer plays... Myers not flying through the offensive zone has helped him defensively, although him trying pinch it, got him smoked a few times... Finally thought we played as well at times, as we have all season defensively, and that is as close, as we get to the Abby D playing.... Edited February 28, 2023 by spook007 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 On another note, anyone know why Miller wasn't playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNucks1 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, spook007 said: On another note, anyone know why Miller wasn't playing? Out week to week injured. 650 saying Miller’s been playing with this since the first game of the season. And added he might be shut down. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 6 hours ago, Chicken. said: I think he can pull off 12 points in the last 22 games for a new record. especially with the minutes he's logging. He's gonna own this list when all is said and done. In 8 years, the top 10 will all be Hughes!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Idk about the rest of you, but to me it's INSANE the offensive talent we have yet we are like 6 points out of 2nd best odds 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 9 hours ago, Cup_Joneser said: sorry i should have posted this in the trade thread my bad. Still, why would I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 9 hours ago, Fakename70 said: Demko didn’t steal anything. He gave it away before the skaters bailed him out. It’s nice he’s back, but, not so nice that it’s still a hard job finding anyone in the Vancouver market who doesn’t predictably contort themselves to pump his tires when he gives one up. It’s ALWAYS someone else’s fault and NEVER on him. How many breakaways did he stop again? 6 or 7 with 38 shots against and many difficult scoring chances. There were four goals against but they were all good goals and it could have easily been twice as many. Demko gave the team a chance to win. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmanpower Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Maybe this will be the year we draft two defensemen in the first round if our draft position ends up in 8-13 range. Demko be much happier stopping 25 shots instead of 45. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 For all those that were dumping on our goalies. Martin, Delia, Silovs. Demko's first game back he still allowed 4 goals. Which is about average for the season. It's not the goaltenders. It's our defence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IBatch Posted February 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said: Idk about the rest of you, but to me it's INSANE the offensive talent we have yet we are like 6 points out of 2nd best odds Going into this season on paper anyways, it looked like we could have 8 plus 15-20 plus goal scorers, plus 3 30 goal plus scorers. Things didn't quite work out that way ... but still it is nice to see. Mikheyev goes down, Garland starts scoring (he couldn't catch a break the first 20 games, despite some good looks)... Pearson of course went down. Joshua has 9 ... In the end our D isn't scoring much at all ... but the forward group is doing it. If you go back and look at the peak Sedin era, didn't score much really - and the "leagues top power play" at the time likely wouldn't crack the top ten this year. Shows what happens when skill starts to catch up with expansion. Been saying this for a couple decades now. The league watered itself down - it's still watered down, instead of one or two enforcers we've got 4-6 AHLers on most teams. And the most enforcers could have made the league without fighting before goons came in during the 90's expansion. Save percentages are way way down. Doesn't mean the goalies are really that bad lol. Roy's went from .900 up to .920 at times during the dead puck era - not hard to figure out. He didn't "peak" just prior to retirement that's ridiculous. Broduer and Belfour same thing. 21 teams instead of 32. Imagine the talent we'd have now if they did that. For sure .900 would be superb today, just like it was in the late 80's early 90's. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 35 minutes ago, GB5 said: How many breakaways did he stop again? 6 or 7 with 38 shots against and many difficult scoring chances. There were four goals against but they were all good goals and it could have easily been twice as many. Demko gave the team a chance to win. Tanks Demko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnBurner Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, IBatch said: Going into this season on paper anyways, it looked like we could have 8 plus 15-20 plus goal scorers, plus 3 30 goal plus scorers. Things didn't quite work out that way ... but still it is nice to see. Mikheyev goes down, Garland starts scoring (he couldn't catch a break the first 20 games, despite some good looks)... Pearson of course went down. Joshua has 9 ... In the end our D isn't scoring much at all ... but the forward group is doing it. If you go back and look at the peak Sedin era, didn't score much really - and the "leagues top power play" at the time likely wouldn't crack the top ten this year. Shows what happens when skill starts to catch up with expansion. Been saying this for a couple decades now. The league watered itself down - it's still watered down, instead of one or two enforcers we've got 4-6 AHLers on most teams. And the most enforcers could have made the league without fighting before goons came in during the 90's expansion. Save percentages are way way down. Doesn't mean the goalies are really that bad lol. Roy's went from .900 up to .920 at times during the dead puck era - not hard to figure out. He didn't "peak" just prior to retirement that's ridiculous. Broduer and Belfour same thing. 21 teams instead of 32. Imagine the talent we'd have now if they did that. For sure .900 would be superb today, just like it was in the late 80's early 90's. I agree the league is watered down. Imagine how much more the quality of the league would improve if say, there were only 24 teams, which will never happen, but... Another thing that bugs me is, there's one too many refs on the ice. If they want two refs, get rid of one of the linesmen. They are constantly in the way. Edit: They should create a new penalty - "too many refs on the ice." Edited February 28, 2023 by BarnBurner 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Kravtsov has the tools, but the laidback Russian kid is going to need to put in a lot of work. Raty will eventually become a really good player as well, in time. Demko still let in 4 goals, but he is better than the others, so the Canucks might end up winning some games down the stretch. Big surprise. Canucks showing they can play well and win without Miller and Schenn. Guess VAN is picking 10th again. Be funny if the NYI pick was actually better than VAN's after it's all said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 10 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: Required listening/viewing for all who complained about ruining the tank by winning this game. Demko deserves everything we can support him with and it is apparent that he really appreciates this W. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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