[PDF] Vegas Golden Knights (P1) vs. Edmonton Oilers (P2) | Golden Knights win series 4-2

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I see this argument used by non-Oilers fans all the time, and it simply doesn't make sense.  If your team has the most lethal powerplay in hockey history, it makes sense to orient your game towards that.  You shouldn't fault a player or a team for playing to its strengths.

 

McDavid and Pettersson are completely different kinds of players.  Pettersson is a very slippery player who is exceptional at avoiding contact and creating space.  On the puck, he's such a smooth handler and he can get just enough separation to make a play.  Off the puck, he is so good at getting open.  McDavid has a different approach, where he will use his explosiveness to challenge defenders directly.  Either he blows by them and gets a prime scoring chance or he gets stuffed.  More likely, defenders will get desperate and either hook, hold or trip him.  His style of play is specifically catered towards drawing penalties.  It works as well as it does because he is Connor McDavid, so I think it's completely unfair to hold that part of his game against him. 

 

If there are older comparisons, I'd say McDavid is a faster, smaller version of Mario Lemieux while Pettersson is a more offensively minded version of Pavel Datsyuk.  What's the point of suggesting one is better than the other when they play completely different styles of hockey?

So we are not allowed to compare players?  Isn't that what we do here on CDC on a daily basis?

 

Of course they are different players, I never said they weren't.  What I was pointing out was that at even strength Petey is more productive than Draisaitl and almost as productive as McDavid.  If McDavid wants to keep playing the same way, trying to draw the opposition into taking penalties by challenging them at every opportunity, then he is going to end his career with no cups.  So he has a choice to make.  Either change your game somewhat, or just keep racking up those points in the regular season and get used to playing alot of golf in the summer.

 

All superstars past and present have found a way to make it work in the playoffs and win cups.  McDavid also needs to do this.  I don't get why you think that McDavid's plan of trying to instigate penalties to use the PP to win games is some type of winning strategy.  Vegas didn't take any penalties in the 3rd period last night.  Teams that are cup contenders are usually more disciplined than the average team in the regular season.  So, you would think that the Edmonton superstars would know this and change their game accordingly.  Obviously they did not, and maybe they can't.  How many times did the reporters ask McDavid and Draisaitl about their 5 on 5 play?  And how many times did they come back and say they were fine 5 on 5, they scored 2 goals last night.  Scoring 2 goals 5 on 5 isn't good enough to win hockey games.  Vegas scored 4 goals 5 on 5.  Usually the team scoring 4 goals beats the team scoring 2 goals.

 

Unless McDavid can change his game and play more like Gretzky and Crosby in the playoffs and less like guys who are at the all-star game, he is not going to win any cups...

[Jaimito]

12 hours ago, CanucksFan8353 said:

Remember when we thought a Leafs V Oilers final was inevitable… good times (or not)!

I didn't. Both are paper tigers that didn't have what it takes to make it.   Was obvious.  

[RUPERTKBD]

I'm sure we'll see plenty of analysis about why the Oilers lost (or why the Knights won) but IMHO defensive play and blocked shots, etc., is all a bit of a smokescreen....

 

Edmonton lost because their goaltending let them down. Simple as that.

[MikeBossy]

5 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I'm sure we'll see plenty of analysis about why the Oilers lost (or why the Knights won) but IMHO defensive play and blocked shots, etc., is all a bit of a smokescreen....

 

Edmonton lost because their goaltending let them down. Simple as that.

I agree but would add their inability to score 5 on 5 and lack of depth also bit them in the butt.

[AnthonyG]

1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I'm sure we'll see plenty of analysis about why the Oilers lost (or why the Knights won) but IMHO defensive play and blocked shots, etc., is all a bit of a smokescreen....

 

Edmonton lost because their goaltending let them down. Simple as that.

And they struggled to score 5v5/ES

They had 10 goals at ES/5v5

9 goals on the PP

 

VGK had 20 goals 5v5/ES 

4 goals on the PP

 

Edmonton lost because they got shut down.

McWhiner had 3 points 5v5 in that series.

Dont blame the goalies for not scoring for McWhiner 5v5

 

[johngould21]

1 hour ago, ktcy2 said:

Then how are you supposed to build a team then. I don’t see anyone on the knights roster that jumps out and scream “I am only built for the playoffs”… McDavid is a monster in the regular season and means nothing in the playoffs. Does it have to do with how the game is called? If 50% of the penalties go uncalled then what is the point of rules? I truly believe that the “anything can happen” rhetoric is because the game is called different in the playoffs from the regular season. This shouldn’t be the case. The same standard should apply both in the regular season and the playoffs to maintain consistency. 
 

 

This is why they're called playoffs. The Knights are a big, heavy team, and have 4 solid lines, plus 6 defensemen that play the same way. Plus, their goaltending is far superior to the Oilers. I admit they do let a bit more go during the playoffs, but, to think that McDavid should get preferential treatment because he's Connor McDavid is ridiculous. I only watched the last 7 minutes of the game last night, but game 6, Vegas had their 3rd line out, and they held the Oilers in their own zone for a complete line change, and managed to get their top line out to keep the pressure on. It was a clinic on how to play playoff hockey.

[BC_Hawk]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I disagree. The Oilers of the 80’s needed the first 3 years to build out their team. They were still teenagers the first two years. 
 

By year 4 they were a powerhouse and only lost to one of the greatest teams ever in NYI. 
 

McDavid and Draisaitl have already been around 8+ years and still can’t figure out how to play 5 on 5 and play actual defence. Without their PP they are barely a playoff team. Gretzky’s Oilers did not have to rely on their PP to win games. They dominated 5 on 5. Actually, they dominated 4 on 4 as well. So much so that the NHL had to implement “The Gretzky Rule”. No more 4 on 4 for offsetting penalties. 
 

Unless these current Oilers can find a goalie who can stop pucks and some defencemen who can play defence, I don’t see them ever winning a cup. They have a 3 year window left. Once Draisaitl and McDavid are UFA’s I think this team will be dismantled. There is no way the Oilers can afford to keep both if they keep playing pond hockey and racking up 130-150 points. And even if they try they will be the Leafs anyways and have no money to pay anyone else. 

Agree 100%. 

 

I think the Oilers only chance to win a cup with this core is under a new coach that plays a defensive or 200' system. Will it cut down on the overall goal count, absolutely, but the team will still be lethal on the PP and has no way to go but up in terms of 5v5. Woodcroft is just not the guy; he is a "players coach" the supports his players undisciplined and reckless style. This was proven the the last month; no accountability on the players for their play or actions.

 

And in all honestly, it really isn't a bridge to far in my opinion. Looking at their current roster, they are only a couple Dmen and rearranging bottom 6 cheap players away from having a team that can play that system. Ekholm was the HUGE acquisition in my opinion; the tough one to get. the problem is that the transition HAS to happen this offseason as 2023/24 is the last chance the core has.

Edited May 15, 2023 by BC_Hawk

[RUPERTKBD]

9 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

I agree but would add their inability to score 5 on 5 and lack of depth also bit them in the butt.

It certainly didn't help, but Skinner gave up three weak goals in 2 periods yesterday. (goal #2 was just bad luck) The Knights are an excellent defensive team, but with the 2 goal cushion that Skinner had provided them, they were able to lock it down in the third.

 

[Goal:thecup]

YES, YES, YES, YES!!

No more sniveling oil jerks and no more sniveling leaf blowers!

Life is good.

On with summer.

[BC_Hawk]

1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

It certainly didn't help, but Skinner gave up three weak goals in 2 periods yesterday. (goal #2 was just bad luck) The Knights are an excellent defensive team, but with the 2 goal cushion that Skinner had provided them, they were able to lock it down in the third.

 

Skinner is a good goal tender....he simply was forced to play to many games because of the terrible signing of Campbell.  Rookies can not be relied upon to play that much with good results.

 

It was a simple formula; crappy team defense, too many games for a Rookie, and a 1B goaltender that couldn't be trusted. Unfortunately for them, they are tied to Campbell for 4 more years.

 

[AnthonyG]

3 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

It certainly didn't help, but Skinner gave up three weak goals in 2 periods yesterday. (goal #2 was just bad luck) The Knights are an excellent defensive team, but with the 2 goal cushion that Skinner had provided them, they were able to lock it down in the third.

 

VGK’s tendy let in a softie on McDavid too. Take away the soft goals for both teams its still the same result. 

[King Heffy]

38 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

So the Oilers need a young Scotty Bowman, to get McD and Drais to buy into playing defensive hockey? 

Babcock is probably the one guy with the balls to hold those two accountable and bench them if they don't start backchecking and playing like men.  He has his warts, but Edmonton has proven that they don't care about character issues there.

 

[AnthonyG]

5 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

It certainly didn't help, but Skinner gave up three weak goals in 2 periods yesterday. (goal #2 was just bad luck) The Knights are an excellent defensive team, but with the 2 goal cushion that Skinner had provided them, they were able to lock it down in the third.

 

5v5/ES VGK outscored EDM entirely

20-19

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

15 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So we are not allowed to compare players?  Isn't that what we do here on CDC on a daily basis?

 

Of course they are different players, I never said they weren't.  What I was pointing out was that at even strength Petey is more productive than Draisaitl and almost as productive as McDavid.  If McDavid wants to keep playing the same way, trying to draw the opposition into taking penalties by challenging them at every opportunity, then he is going to end his career with no cups.  So he has a choice to make.  Either change your game somewhat, or just keep racking up those points in the regular season and get used to playing alot of golf in the summer.

 

All superstars past and present have found a way to make it work in the playoffs and win cups.  McDavid also needs to do this.  I don't get why you think that McDavid's plan of trying to instigate penalties to use the PP to win games is some type of winning strategy.  Vegas didn't take any penalties in the 3rd period last night.  Teams that are cup contenders are usually more disciplined than the average team in the regular season.  So, you would think that the Edmonton superstars would know this and change their game accordingly.  Obviously they did not, and maybe they can't.  How many times did the reporters ask McDavid and Draisaitl about their 5 on 5 play?  And how many times did they come back and say they were fine 5 on 5, they scored 2 goals last night.  Scoring 2 goals 5 on 5 isn't good enough to win hockey games.  Vegas scored 4 goals 5 on 5.  Usually the team scoring 4 goals beats the team scoring 2 goals.

 

Unless McDavid can change his game and play more like Gretzky and Crosby in the playoffs and less like guys who are at the all-star game, he is not going to win any cups...

This isn't a comparison at all.  You're just trashing McDavid for failing to win in the playoffs.  I can assure you Oilers fans will mock you to hell given the fact that Pettersson has almost no playoff experience.  It's as much McDavid's fault for losing to Vegas as it is Pettersson for not getting into the playoffs in the first place.

 

You are faulting McDavid for the defeat against Vegas when he did a decent job scoring while the rest of his team crumpled.  No secondary scoring.  Fault Edmonton for being a top-heavy team that found a way to maximize the use of its top six forwards by giving them as many PP opportunities as possible.  It's one thing to suggest the Oilers had a losing strategy by being overly reliant on its special teams against Vegas, the least penalized team (by a lot) this season.  It's another thing to blame team strategy on one individual.

 

Look at it this way.  Pettersson on the Oilers would play less 5v5 (therefore score less) and more PP (therefore score more).  He would be told to focus on drawing penalties and scoring on the man advantage.  And... the bottom six would still struggle.  The blueline would still struggle.  Skinner would still struggle.  Nothing would change since the team strategy is still the same.

[RUPERTKBD]

17 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

Skinner is a good goal tender....he simply was forced to play to many games because of the terrible signing of Campbell.  Rookies can not be relied upon to play that much with good results.

 

It was a simple formula; crappy team defense, too many games for a Rookie, and a 1B goaltender that couldn't be trusted. Unfortunately for them, they are tied to Campbell for 4 more years.

Yeah, I don't actually think it's a death sentence for him. (IIRC, he's up for the Calder, isn't he?) I just think he had a rough series at a very bad time for the Oil.

 

Kind of like 2012 MAF....

[RUPERTKBD]

19 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

VGK’s tendy let in a softie on McDavid too. Take away the soft goals for both teams its still the same result. 

Well, we can agree to disagree I suppose, but from what I saw, Hill vastly outperformed Skinner last night.

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

30 people on CDC picked Vegas in 6.  But not even one of these so called hockey professionals picked Vegas in 6.  Not even one.  

 

CDC is much smarter than real hockey experts...

That surprises you? 

[Ballisticsports.]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So we are not allowed to compare players?  Isn't that what we do here on CDC on a daily basis?

 

Of course they are different players, I never said they weren't.  What I was pointing out was that at even strength Petey is more productive than Draisaitl and almost as productive as McDavid.  If McDavid wants to keep playing the same way, trying to draw the opposition into taking penalties by challenging them at every opportunity, then he is going to end his career with no cups.  So he has a choice to make.  Either change your game somewhat, or just keep racking up those points in the regular season and get used to playing alot of golf in the summer.

 

All superstars past and present have found a way to make it work in the playoffs and win cups.  McDavid also needs to do this.  I don't get why you think that McDavid's plan of trying to instigate penalties to use the PP to win games is some type of winning strategy.  Vegas didn't take any penalties in the 3rd period last night.  Teams that are cup contenders are usually more disciplined than the average team in the regular season.  So, you would think that the Edmonton superstars would know this and change their game accordingly.  Obviously they did not, and maybe they can't.  How many times did the reporters ask McDavid and Draisaitl about their 5 on 5 play?  And how many times did they come back and say they were fine 5 on 5, they scored 2 goals last night.  Scoring 2 goals 5 on 5 isn't good enough to win hockey games.  Vegas scored 4 goals 5 on 5.  Usually the team scoring 4 goals beats the team scoring 2 goals.

 

Unless McDavid can change his game and play more like Gretzky and Crosby in the playoffs and less like guys who are at the all-star game, he is not going to win any cups...

Elias, I don't buy it is a strategy to draw penalties, i think he just uses his speed and his quick thinking to his advantage and he wants to get by to score not draw a penalty (that is the end result and why his peers say he is the best)

If you own and race a Porsche while everyone else are racing  VW Bug's, you don't drive your Porsche like a Beetle

How old was Ovi before he won his 1st cup 33?

For some to say he couldn't hold Crosby's jockstrap is far fetched

Ovi will go down as one of the greatest players and McD still has 7 yrs to win his 1st cup like Ovi along with Drai

Putting them down when they got their teams into the playoffs, would be like putting EP and JT down for not even getting us there

I get the dislike of the Oilers, but within reason 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Ballisticsports.

[Elias Pettersson]

12 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

This isn't a comparison at all.  You're just trashing McDavid for failing to win in the playoffs.  I can assure you Oilers fans will mock you to hell given the fact that Pettersson has almost no playoff experience.  It's as much McDavid's fault for losing to Vegas as it is Pettersson for not getting into the playoffs in the first place.

 

You are faulting McDavid for the defeat against Vegas when he did a decent job scoring while the rest of his team crumpled.  No secondary scoring.  Fault Edmonton for being a top-heavy team that found a way to maximize the use of its top six forwards by giving them as many PP opportunities as possible.  It's one thing to suggest the Oilers had a losing strategy by being overly reliant on its special teams against Vegas, the least penalized team (by a lot) this season.  It's another thing to blame team strategy on one individual.

 

Look at it this way.  Pettersson on the Oilers would play less 5v5 (therefore score less) and more PP (therefore score more).  He would be told to focus on drawing penalties and scoring on the man advantage.  And... the bottom six would still struggle.  The blueline would still struggle.  Skinner would still struggle.  Nothing would change since the team strategy is still the same.

Yes, I am.  Isn't that the point?  So, McDavid has zero fault for his team choking 2 years in a row?  It's the rest of the team's fault?  Doesn't McDavid play like 25 minutes a night?

 

If your team has the most lethal powerplay in hockey history, it makes sense to orient your game towards that.  You shouldn't fault a player or a team for playing to its strengths.

 

This is what you said in regards to the Oilers and McDavid.  You are making the point that McDavid is using the PP to try and win hockey games.  We know that strategy doesn't work in the playoffs and last night was a perfect example of why.  As you pointed out top playoff teams don't take alot of penalties, so why are the Oilers still trying to use that strategy?  Are they not capable of scoring 5 on 5 enough to win a hockey game?  Is McDavid not capable of changing his game in the playoffs?  If not, then is that not his fault?

 

McDavid had 20 points in the playoffs, 12 of them on the PP.  In comparison, Eichel had 14 points in the playoffs, but only 2 points on the PP.  So, at even strength Eichel is a better player.  Why can't McDavid outscore Eichel at 5 on 5?  You say it is not his fault, it is the team's fault.  This is confusing to me.  McDavid plays 25 minutes a night but can't outscore Jack Eichel 5 on 5.  And this is supposedly not McDavid's fault, it is the teams fault.  That makes no sense.

 

What makes total sense is that 5 on 5 McDavid isn't actually the best player in the league.  He can't even outscore Jack Eichel when it counts the most.  Sorry, but McDavid is a product of his environment.  Put him on a team that doesn't get alot of PP's and he's not even a 100-point player.  He couldn't hold Crosby's jockstrap.  

 

Won't even get into the Petey comparisons.  Petey is like a 100+ point player on a non-playoff team who could win the Selke trophy.  That type of player is exactly what you need in the playoffs to win a Stanley Cup...

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

That surprises you? 

Not really...