[Discussion] Draft and Off Season Talk

[Timråfan]

4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Hmmm, I don't think there are. It's not easily fixed though, not by a long shot ... far from it. You have a major blind spot if you don't think we have cap problems. It's pretty simple to see.

Well, I pass judgement when I know the facts.

I won’t say we  are in problem til we in fact are in problem cap wise.

If PA already has solved this but keep his cards close is something we don’t know squat about.

And here you and a lot of others talk as we are in grave cap issue… Don’t you think it is a bit early? 
 

Look at the Bruins, Lightnings and Flames that are in worse cap problems, do their fans talk about doom and gloom all the time? 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Timråfan

[Ghostsof1915]

Management has to decide. Can they compete with the core of players we have now?

Can we be cap compliant with the players we have now?

What moves need to be done to shed cap?

 

There's one way to solve the cap issues.

It will suck. People won't like it.

And the decision on this should have been when the Canucks were struggling mid-season. But that time is past.

Here goes. It's going to be like ripping the band-aid off.

 

Start over.

Trade Petey, Hughes, Demko, Miller, all at the draft.

$28.2 million in savings.

You should be able to get a boatload of picks and or prospects.

It will allow the Canucks to focus on drafting and developing.

And they can ride out the bad contracts.

 

Will it suck? Yes.

Long term gain though.

 

 

 

[Timråfan]

2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Management has to decide. Can they compete with the core of players we have now?

Can we be cap compliant with the players we have now?

What moves need to be done to shed cap?

 

There's one way to solve the cap issues.

It will suck. People won't like it.

And the decision on this should have been when the Canucks were struggling mid-season. But that time is past.

Here goes. It's going to be like ripping the band-aid off.

 

Start over.

Trade Petey, Hughes, Demko, Miller, all at the draft.

$28.2 million in savings.

You should be able to get a boatload of picks and or prospects.

It will allow the Canucks to focus on drafting and developing.

And they can ride out the bad contracts.

 

Will it suck? Yes.

Long term gain though.

 

 

 

Nah, plyoffs next season just for fun.

The serious window starts the next season.

Then we have two years on the top.

After that we can redefine the goal. Especially if Hughes run away. 
But we don’t trade away the stars before that. 

[hockeyfan-observer]

9 hours ago, kloubek said:

So what would it take to snatch Bedard from Chicago?

 

He's NHL ready, and Chicago isn't going to be competing for any cup any time soon. Seems to me they are still in asset acquiring mode, and will be for a couple of years.

 

I propose:
To Vancouver: 1 OA
To Chicago: 11 OA, Beauvillier, Raty, Rathbone, 2024 1st, 2025 2nd

 

Do you guys think something like that package could get it done? I almost think it's overpayment, but then, we're talking Bedard here.

 

Kuz Pettersson Mikheyev
Garland Miller Boeser

PDG/Dries Bedard Hoglander

Podz Studnika Joshua

Getting Bedard from Chicago?  - since he is labelled as franchise player - probably need to trade the franchise - how about Petey Huggy Demko, this years first and next 2 years unprotected firsts.  Would put us back 5+ years plus we don't have any first round picks in the near term - don't think that is reasonable.  Probably 99% chance he is going to Chicago with maybe Anaheim a team that may pry him loose if they gave the 2nd(Fantilli)  plus their prospects, including McTavish Mintyukov Luneau Zegras and whole slew of picks. Since teams most likely would not want to gut the team - Bedard is headed to Chicago.

 

I suspect they will play like Seattle or Carolina, a more controlled team oriented style to shield Bedard a bit as he is going to attract the attention of opposition and their team is not currently very deep - they may be able to sign some good free agents to help him out. I see maybe a 70-75 points next year - will eventually need a fellow player to help him out like pairs Petey-Huggy / Draisitle-McDavid / Kane-Toews / Crosby Malkin

Edited May 12, 2023 by hockeyfan-observer
c

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

We might have to suffer for a year without any upgrades made during the off-season and us having to rely on ELCs to fill out spots

 

Injuries during the season to key players may be felt much more due to the lack of depth. If we stay healthy we could probably compete for a playoff spot much we'd be on the bubble. Core would have to keep up a high level of play. Will be interesting to see how a full year without Horvat effects the sustainability of our star players and centers. We got a half-season sample size with an easier schedule to judge but adding another half year where you need others to pick up the scoring, minutes and faceoff duties against tougher opponents could affect longevity and could create potential for injury. Hence why a solid 3rd C is likely the reason of being on the managements radar. Probably want Miller/Petey to not burn out down the stretch. 

 

Biggest issue with this team is consistency and a biggest reason for that is lack of proper personnel. We need more defensive guys if we want to consistently have better defensive results(PK and goals against). Coach helps but coach needs to proper guys in the proper places to get the best results. 

 

It will be an interesting year but I wouldn't have crazy expectations unless they manage to clear cap(and how much) and make things interesting this off-season. 

I don't harbour any huge expectations for next season, but do believe the team have it them to reach the play offs.

Reaching the play offs is not the holy grail, but a stepping stone in the right direction.

 

We may have to ride the pine next season, without any further upgrades, however once we show, are below the the cap threshold, we may be able to make a few deals to help with the 3C position amongst others.

 

Who knows, they may even have a deal in place for Myers or one of the wingers... we don't know everything the GMs discuss behind closed doors.

 

[Gawdzukes]

22 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Well, I pass judgement when I know the facts.

I won’t say we  are in problem til we in fact are in problem cap wise.

If PA already has solved this but keep his cards close is something we don’t know squat about.

And here you and a lot of others talk as we are in grave cap issue… Don’t you think it is a bit early? 
 

Look at the Bruins, Lightnings and Flames that are in worse cap problems, do their fans talk about doom and gloom all the time? 

I'm not saying they can't possibly wiggle their way out of it but it's obvious we have cap concerns, and after the last trade deadline it's worse than it was last year. It will probably be a very difficult task to undertake. I'm going to be open minded and optimistic they make the right moves but I'm also not going to bury my head in the sand either. All you have to do is be able to add up to 83.5 to see the problems if you want to take a look.

 

I have no clue what other teams fans are talking about but I'm guessing the more knowledgeable ones are concerned over the cap there to. You have to recognize you have problems in order to fix them. Pretending they aren't there isn't a good solution.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

I so hope they are both gone. Dermott was a crap move since day 1. He's brutal, Bear is not much better. Personally I don't want him back at any price but anything above league minimum is a mistake. He makes as bad of mistakes as Myers and he's tiny. He provides a tiny bit of offence as his strength which is something we don't even need.

I don't disagree one bit... and question is if we have something as good or close to amongst the Abby Canucks, cause then they are definitely history.

 

As for the list, I don't quite get it. It says 3 retains, but they are all gone in the summer, and also is it based on Bear and Dermot still being on the books?

Regardless it's not ideal, but we have known that since Benning got canned. Management could do one of two things make some roster adjustments, and while threading carefully around the caps upper limits, or a tank... I believe, the moves they have made make sense, as we desperately needed a RHD. 

It can be debated if they should have sign Mika (I like him, but I like lots of players), but could it have something to do with making this a good place to go for Russian players? Not sure, but the last attempt with Trym didn't work out too well. JR and Allvin also have some knowledge in working with Russians from Pittsburg.

 

In the end, we have been here before about it not being possible to get under the cap line, while Benning was in charge, and every time we did... And if Benning could figure it out, I'm 100% sure Allvin as his 5000 chipmunks in the front office can manage it too... So for now, I'm not too worried.

 

 

[spook007]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

Not sure how tradeable without big retention and/or sweeteners (or cap back).

Unfortunately best thing to do is likely wait out Myers, give OEL a shot again and pray one of those wingers gets hot enough next year to be tradeable. 
As it it stands we have 2 small scoring wingers neither of which are even 20g scorers and aren’t the best defensively. One makes $4M  and one $5M. There is not much of a market for those players other than apparently in Vancouver.  We can move them but it will thin our already thin prospect and draft pool further. 
Much of what needs to happen probably should happen through attrition, waiting out Myers and Beau and looking to move Garland on tail end of deal. 
That being said I would bank on a desperate move to clear cap and expect the price will be next seasons first. The money will get spent quickly for a regrettable deal which will require more assets to be cleared the following season to make room for EP’s and Hronek’s new deals. 
Crazy way to run a team but that is us. 

As it stands but its just for 1 more year at worst.

As long as they don't do another Benning and take on another life time contract for a maybe player, because they can't wait another year.

Desperate moves to clear cap, at least costing next years 1st? Why... at worst they can buy out a player should they really feel the need to?

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

I've heard that as well but I don't really believe those people lol. They are wrong every year. We can be cap compliant but we do have to ice the same crap team in order to do so. Personally I think we'd be better off burning a year and getting our finances in order but I'm afraid we're going to see prices paid to update the roster. While this could work my biggest worry is that we pull of some crazy moves and burn futures but only get marginally better while just creating more cap havoc down the road.

 

We'll have to see what they do as there are many ways to approach this. Like usual through cap is a massive concern and a major obstacle to the club moving forward.

Our biggest move for the coming season has already been made, by acquiring Hronek to shore up our RHD position. That was an absolute must and it was addressed, so the team has been improved. Agree, we don't want another lifetime contract like OELs.... coming in in any sort of trades lined up, unless Miller or OEL goes the opposite way.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

We might have to suffer for a year without any upgrades made during the off-season and us having to rely on ELCs to fill out spots

 

Injuries during the season to key players may be felt much more due to the lack of depth. If we stay healthy we could probably compete for a playoff spot much we'd be on the bubble. Core would have to keep up a high level of play. Will be interesting to see how a full year without Horvat effects the sustainability of our star players and centers. We got a half-season sample size with an easier schedule to judge but adding another half year where you need others to pick up the scoring, minutes and faceoff duties against tougher opponents could affect longevity and could create potential for injury. Hence why a solid 3rd C is likely the reason of being on the managements radar. Probably want Miller/Petey to not burn out down the stretch. 

 

Biggest issue with this team is consistency and a biggest reason for that is lack of proper personnel. We need more defensive guys if we want to consistently have better defensive results(PK and goals against). Coach helps but coach needs to proper guys in the proper places to get the best results. 

 

It will be an interesting year but I wouldn't have crazy expectations unless they manage to clear cap(and how much) and make things interesting this off-season. 

actually, they've got quite a bit of organizational depth and they have a staff in Abby who is getting players to play the way RT wants players to play.  

[Strawbone]

Just wanted to get on page 69 

 

Well that did not go as planned.

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Strawbone

[grandmaster]

4 hours ago, kloubek said:

So what would it take to snatch Bedard from Chicago?

 

He's NHL ready, and Chicago isn't going to be competing for any cup any time soon. Seems to me they are still in asset acquiring mode, and will be for a couple of years.

 

I propose:
To Vancouver: 1 OA
To Chicago: 11 OA, Beauvillier, Raty, Rathbone, 2024 1st, 2025 2nd

 

Do you guys think something like that package could get it done? I almost think it's overpayment, but then, we're talking Bedard here.

 

Kuz Pettersson Mikheyev
Garland Miller Boeser

PDG/Dries Bedard Hoglander

Podz Studnika Joshua

I think the only way this happens is if it got leaked out that he won’t report to Chicago and say Vancouver or nothing. Never been done before. Lindros was open to other teams

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

Our biggest move for the coming season has already been made, by acquiring Hronek to shore up our RHD position. That was an absolute must and it was addressed, so the team has been improved. Agree, we don't want another lifetime contract like OELs.... coming in in any sort of trades lined up, unless Miller or OEL goes the opposite way.

Yes I suppose in that sense (acquiring Hronek) we improved, and I agree it's an area we 100% had to address. Now we'll see how much of a difference he makes. Imho unless he lights out affects the team we'll be seriously challenged to make the playoffs without some additional moves. It's not impossible by any stretch but it's going to be extremely difficult at the same time. I'm looking forward to see what they get done though.

[spook007]

Just now, Gawdzukes said:

Yes I suppose in that sense (acquiring Hronek) we improved, and I agree it's an area we 100% had to address. Now we'll see how much of a difference he makes. Imho unless he lights out affects the team we'll be seriously challenged to make the playoffs without some additional moves. It's not impossible by any stretch but it's going to be extremely difficult at the same time. I'm looking forward to see what they get done though.

The best thing about Hronek is he has a year to show his stuff, and then he is RFA...  He cost us a 1st and a 2nd, but if he sucks ball like OEL or Myers, we are not stuck with it for another 5-7 years...

I also believe other moves or a move will be made, but we do have a few players in Abby, who may come in and do well, should it not be possible...

[JamesB]

24 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I'm not saying they can't possibly wiggle their way out of it but it's obvious we have cap concerns, and after the last trade deadline it's worse than it was last year. It will probably be a very difficult task to undertake. I'm going to be open minded and optimistic they make the right moves but I'm also not going to bury my head in the sand either. All you have to do is be able to add up to 83.5 to see the problems if you want to take a look.

 

I have no clue what other teams fans are talking about but I'm guessing the more knowledgeable ones are concerned over the cap there to. You have to recognize you have problems in order to fix them. Pretending they aren't there isn't a good solution.

 

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

As it stands but its just for 1 more year at worst.

As long as they don't do another Benning and take on another life time contract for a maybe player, because they can't wait another year.

Desperate moves to clear cap, at least costing next years 1st? Why... at worst they can buy out a player should they really feel the need to?

The Canuck cap situation is not good, But I think there is a little too much negativity about it. I won't repeat the arithmetic here, but the Canucks can bring the current team back, including re-signing Bear at a reasonable number and have a few dollars left over as long as Poolman and Pearson stay on LTIR. In fact, they can wiggle into cap compliance to start the year even if only one of those guys stays on LTIR (and I think Pearson is pretty much certain to stay on LTIR).

 

However, the Canucks do not have any cap room to upgrade their biggest needs unless they can can unload a significant contract or two.

 

In the unlikely event that Poolman is healthy, that is not bad as he is a pretty good 3rd pairing D. If Poolman was healthy and assuming Bear is re-signed I would put Myers on waivers at the start of the season. If some picks him up (which is reasonably likely as his bonus will be paid by then), great. If not, I think the Canuck D would be better off without Myers and he can play in Abby.

 

But I think it would be a mistake to give up assets (prospects or picks) to facilitate a cap dump of Myers or anyone else. 

 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

actually, they've got quite a bit of organizational depth and they have a staff in Abby who is getting players to play the way RT wants players to play.  

Is that depth playoff worthy is the question that will be answered over the course of the season. 

 

I predict not as of right now as some are young and will be going through the pains, ups/downs of growth as we see on a yearly basis with guys. We've seen a understandable lack of consistency. Most notably Pod/Hog we've seen go through this and they've got higher upside and more experience than almost all of our other younger depth so I imagine it will take time for the others to settle in as well. 

 

That's what next year is for. To see what we got and to go through these growth periods. As we clear cap we can supplement the youngsters who've shown to fit with veterans that fit and then we have probably created a consistent playoff lineup and depth that we can rely on as a playoff team. 

[Strawbone]

4 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

The Canuck cap situation is not good, But I think there is a little too much negativity about it. I won't repeat the arithmetic here, but the Canucks can bring the current team back, including re-signing Bear at a reasonable number and have a few dollars left over as long as Poolman and Pearson stay on LTIR. In fact, they can wiggle into cap compliance to start the year even if only one of those guys stays on LTIR (and I think Pearson is pretty much certain to stay on LTIR).

 

However, the Canucks do not have any cap room to upgrade their biggest needs unless they can can unload a significant contract or two.

 

In the unlikely event that Poolman is healthy, that is not bad as he is a pretty good 3rd pairing D. If Poolman was healthy and assuming Bear is re-signed I would put Myers on waivers at the start of the season. If some picks him up (which is reasonably likely as his bonus will be paid by then), great. If not, I think the Canuck D would be better off without Myers and he can play in Abby.

 

But I think it would be a mistake to give up assets (prospects or picks) to facilitate a cap dump of Myers or anyone else. 

 

 

I like that idea... but it's not possible with his modified no-trade clause, is it? Or can you still waive him, but only a team on his list could pick him up?

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Is that depth playoff worthy is the question that will be answered over the course of the season. 

 

I predict not as of right now as some are young and will be going through the pains, ups/downs of growth as we see on a yearly basis with guys. We've seen a understandable lack of consistency. Most notably Pod/Hog we've seen go through this and they've got higher upside and more experience than almost all of our other younger depth so I imagine it will take time for the others to settle in as well. 

 

That's what next year is for. To see what we got and to go through these growth periods. As we clear cap we can supplement the youngsters who've shown to fit with veterans that fit and then we have probably created a consistent playoff lineup and depth that we can rely on as a playoff team. 

Hogz should never have been sent down, he was the victim of a terrible coach and the org wanting to maintain his waiver exempt status.  They have mutltiple players, at every position who could get the call up and fill in well..........thin at C though

[spook007]

2 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

The Canuck cap situation is not good, But I think there is a little too much negativity about it. I won't repeat the arithmetic here, but the Canucks can bring the current team back, including re-signing Bear at a reasonable number and have a few dollars left over as long as Poolman and Pearson stay on LTIR. In fact, they can wiggle into cap compliance to start the year even if only one of those guys stays on LTIR (and I think Pearson is pretty much certain to stay on LTIR).

 

However, the Canucks do not have any cap room to upgrade their biggest needs unless they can can unload a significant contract or two.

 

In the unlikely event that Poolman is healthy, that is not bad as he is a pretty good 3rd pairing D. If Poolman was healthy and assuming Bear is re-signed I would put Myers on waivers at the start of the season. If some picks him up (which is reasonably likely as his bonus will be paid by then), great. If not, I think the Canuck D would be better off without Myers and he can play in Abby.

 

But I think it would be a mistake to give up assets (prospects or picks) to facilitate a cap dump of Myers or anyone else. 

 

 

Absolutely... we don't want to waste assets to dump somebody we can put to Abby or buy out...

 And mega yes, way too much negativity regarding the cap... 

[Ghostsof1915]

18 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

Just wanted to get on page 69 

 

Well that did not go as planned.

 

Straw with the right priorities.