Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[eeeeergh]

bet anything that with demko healthy + hronek in the lineup, minus horvat, we're already a bubble playoff team

 

a penalty killing 3c and an additional big shutdown defenseman make us a competitive playoff team

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

31 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

islanders in shambles

only option they have right now is buying a DeLorean and hoping it comes with the time machine functionality built in

 

 

 

It’s gonna be a long 8 years for those Islander fans. 

[Chicken.]

31 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

bet anything that with demko healthy + hronek in the lineup, minus horvat, we're already a bubble playoff team

 

a penalty killing 3c and an additional big shutdown defenseman make us a competitive playoff team

 

 

Not to mention Mikh back in the lineup healthy and Kuzy accustomed to the north american game… the core a year older and wiser. Beauv with chemistry built. Podz and Hogz hungry af to get back in the lineup. My optimism is rising.

 

Get us some more defensive help and i agree were looking competitive 

[Timråfan]

48 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

bet anything that with demko healthy + hronek in the lineup, minus horvat, we're already a bubble playoff team

 

a penalty killing 3c and an additional big shutdown defenseman make us a competitive playoff team

 

 

Is it just that you have an avatar of an intelligent and sensitive hockeyplayer you actually seems to grasp what’s important.

 

Other seems to not understand the difference between different management groups or coaches.

[Timråfan]

22 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

It’s gonna be a long 8 years for those Islander fans. 

How many trades have been so good for the Canucks?

[EddieVedder]

54 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

bet anything that with demko healthy + hronek in the lineup, minus horvat, we're already a bubble playoff team

 

a penalty killing 3c and an additional big shutdown defenseman make us a competitive playoff team

 

 

Yea well theres always an excuse for this team.  It comes down to us not having enough quality players and zero depth.  We always try to convice ourselves certain players are better than they actually are.  Hroneks a positive though.  Hes a legit 2 on most teams.   Need more quality players like Hronek. 

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, eeeeergh said:

We traded an 8.5 million dollar player generating this level of production + a 2nd round pick

 

for

 

Hronek, one of the best center prospects (raty), and a 4th

 

Absolutely flipping wild trade

 

an unbelievable fleeing

 

new york got undressed, JR stole the shirt off their backs and all of their boxer-briefs

 

if that wasnt enough humiliation, he walked out wearing their toupee

 

absolute unbelievable highway robbery by the hairless compadres / bald bandits

 

standing ovation for the chipmunks

Um, you seem to be forgetting the 20 pts in 33 games forward that also came in that trade...

 

....

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

14 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

How many trades have been so good for the Canucks?

You have to go back to the Brian Burke and Pat Quinn years. 

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You have to go back to the Brian Burke and Pat Quinn years. 

Ehrhoff with a little cap dump for peanuts was a mighty good trade.

[Timråfan]

9 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Ehrhoff with a little cap dump for peanuts was a mighty good trade.

Peanuts is a player I’ve never heard anything of. Any good?

[spook007]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:06 AM, dougieL said:

See this is the type of comment that doesn't reflect reality. If it did, Steve Yzerman would be an absolute idiot.

 

Hronek costs significant cap space; a draft pick/prospect costs very little. The trade should be viewed in terms of:

 

Would you rather have Hronek's cap space (which you can use to presumably get a guy in free agency or at significantly reduced trade cost) + a first and second round pick, or would you rather have Hronek? View like this, it's not nearly as much of a slam dunk as many people here seem to think it is.

 

If there was no such thing as cap space, I agree...this trade would probably be a win for us. But...just take a look at what it has cost teams to move cap space.

 

22 hours ago, dougieL said:

Did I every say they could have signed a Hronek-level player in FA at 1 year for 4.4m? You know what - if you want to go down that route, yeah, we're about to get a Hronek-level player in FA, and you're absolutely right that he won't be cheaper. He'll be a hell of a lot more expensive. You know who that player is going to be? Yeah...Hronek 

Well I read your previous post as Honeks cap space, which is 4.4M could presumably get a player for in free agency, or at significantly reduced cost?

 

22 hours ago, dougieL said:

And yeah, we could have taken advantage of a team in a cap crunch to poach players at reduced cost...kind of the same thing teams will likely do to us now that we're the ones in the cap crunch.

And yes you don't don't know that...  

 

22 hours ago, dougieL said:

 

The consequences of this trade will not have been fully felt until we see (a) how much it's going to cost us to get out of our current cap predicament, and (b) how much we sign Hronek for.

This is true, but we can start by saying either it sucks, say its a good trade or say time will tell...

 

22 hours ago, dougieL said:

 

This whole "the 18th pick will likely never be as good as Hronek" or "the 18th pick will not help us within X years" is nonsense.

 

Is it? again you don't know, if the 18th pick even becomes a player... only time will tell. 

 

22 hours ago, dougieL said:

People need to understand the value of cap space, and until you do, you're only seeing half the picture. What did people say about Garland for our 9th overall? Some variant of "Guenther won't help us for at least 2-3 years" or "Guenther's ceiling is comparable to what Garland is now." And yet, do you think for one second that a team would give us a Guenther-level prospect in exchange for Garland and his cap hit?

Gunther starts his 3rd season next season so 2-3 seasons  would right. no?

 

22 hours ago, dougieL said:

 

Give your heads a shake people - this trade is nowhere near the slam dunk you think it is.

 

 

 

Here is the thing though. We have needed a rhd and Allvin scouted Hronek for a year, and now we got him.

Cap space is brilliant and I would love cap space, but then we wouldn't have the players that Allvin brought in.

If Hronek is as good as expected, he will cost a lot more than the 4.4M we have him for in Cap space, if we at all would be able to get him through FA. 

 

As for speaking about Guenther and time to make an impact in the NHL... most D man take longer than forwards to become impact players and most likely we won't get a dman drafted at the 18th spot into the line up for another 2-3 years at least if at all... 

We should know, how hard it is to draft an impact D as its been a while since we did so...

 

So we could sit back and hope we would draft an impact d man with the 18th pick or the 2nd round pick, which would be nice, and then hope we can get a rhd in FA, or we could get the RHD who is available for us here and now.

 

Last couple of expensive D men we got in FAs was Myers and Schmidt, and at a lesser cost Poolman, Hamonic, Del Zotto and Benn... I may have forgotten

Not a single one of those lived up to expectation, so buying in free agency is not as easy as it sounds... Good players rarely becomes available for cheap in FA... 

 

And teams don't just give up they star assets even if they cap restrained... It does happen occasionally though with Erhoff being amongst the prime examples, but there is zero guarantee that a dman like that becomes available from a team in cap trouble, and even if rhd becomes available, there is zero guarantee he is traded to Canucks. 

 

So Allvin has done his measurements and found that signing Hronek, was worth the gamble... Time will tell... but to complain about the trade, until we see in the off season, how the team looks, and if it costs the team or not, is.... 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by spook007

[Baggins]

8 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Peanuts is a player I’ve never heard anything of. Any good?

A center, Patrick White never played an NHL, or even an AHL, game. He played 26 KHL games with zero points. I call that giving up peanuts.

[Timråfan]

3 minutes ago, Baggins said:

A center, Patrick White never played an NHL, or even an AHL, game. He played 26 KHL games with zero points. I call that giving up peanuts.

I tried a bit tongue in cheek. Sorry for being swedish so you had to explain. 

[Bobby James]

I just don't see how anyone can judge this trade until 2 things happen:

 

1) Hronek is a legit top 4 RD. He is a great 2 way Dman that can contribute offensively and plays well in his own end. 

 

2) He resigns with Vancouver at a cap hit we can manage (maybe 6.5ish with term or slightly more if his play is extremely strong).

 

Without those 2 things happening then no the trade of course sucks. We need him to be the 2nd best Dman on the team and he has to sign here long term. After that it feels far more reasonable to judge the trade. 

[spook007]

15 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Sounds like the JT Miller trade no? Forgetting he was playing on one of the deepest teams in the league at the time..  and also forgetting to see how well he did with Stammer, and he did play on his line more than once and rocked it and you think if people bothered to check, more people would have known that but nooooo.. dog's breakfast indeed!!!

 What a fan base... This is typical... Omfg! Lol! Smh! <------ ! 

 You know this starts in the media right? 9 times out of 10... And we have bush league media so I guess it makes sense, the only thing their REALLY good at is sugar coating bull$hit so well people actually believe it! 

Yep it does...

[chon derry]

9 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I tried a bit tongue in cheek. Sorry for being swedish so you had to explain. 

[Timråfan]

22 minutes ago, Bobby James said:

I just don't see how anyone can judge this trade until 2 things happen:

 

1) Hronek is a legit top 4 RD. He is a great 2 way Dman that can contribute offensively and plays well in his own end. 

 

2) He resigns with Vancouver at a cap hit we can manage (maybe 6.5ish with term or slightly more if his play is extremely strong).

 

Without those 2 things happening then no the trade of course sucks. We need him to be the 2nd best Dman on the team and he has to sign here long term. After that it feels far more reasonable to judge the trade. 

For me it’s about 8,5 mill for a 2nd C

[Mrwipeout]

cant say much since he hardly played....from what i know from detroit and what i saw at times hes a great D-man and has the size and skill u want in a D. Lookin forward to seeing him next season....as mentioned im not that excited bout anything other then bedard, will take at least 3 years untill those players grows into the players they potentially can be... 

[Timråfan]

7 minutes ago, Mrwipeout said:

cant say much since he hardly played....from what i know from detroit and what i saw at times hes a great D-man and has the size and skill u want in a D. Lookin forward to seeing him next season....as mentioned im not that excited bout anything other then bedard, will take at least 3 years untill those players grows into the players they potentially can be... 

I’m a little bit curious if the SHL prospects needs more than a year in SHL before NHL.

 

It’s not like the childrens leagues in WHL and so on.

It’s the third league in the world with men against men.

Leo Carlsson plays for Sweden already in WC par example.

ASP after a year in SHL after the draft is probably a 5/6 D already with a lot of development.

[dougieL]

6 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

except it really isnt

 

where on earth is everyone seeing these massive cap issues that i keep hearing about

 

we are "over the cap" only if you count pearson and poolman, both of which are going to be sitting on LTIR

 

if you put those two on LTIR, and include our 850k bonus overage, we start next year at 78.35

 

Add 3m for Bear and youre at 81.35m + 800k for Silovs and youre at 82.15

 

So with ZERO moves we are 1 million under the cap

 

If JR makes ONE move this offseason (lets say he moves Garland with 1m retention) thats 5 million dollars for a 3C + some sandpaper on D. 

 

Next year, Beauviller and Myers contracts fall off - 10.5 million of space opens up. 

 

Petey needs a 3 million raise to take him over 10 million, Hronek will need a 3 million raise most likely. 

 

Salary cap is projected now to go up by an ADDITIONAL 4 million

 

So we go into the following season, WITH raises for our expensive RFAs, with around 8 million dollars of cap space

 

 

Literally where are these massive cap issues everyones talking about. We aren't minesota with 12 million in actual dead cap. 

Uh what??? How many players do you think are on a full NHL roster?

 

Assuming Pearson and Poolman go on LTIR, we have 79.26m committed to 20 skaters. That leaves around 4.25m to sign 3 more skaters. Let's go with your estimate of 3m for Bear (although I'm willing to assume we can sign him for under 3m). 

 

That leaves in the neighborhood of 1.25m to sign 2 more players.

 

Oh and do you feel like we should sign Hoglander? If so, he'll cost what...1.5m? And then what?

 

Okay now, given this cap situation (do we agree now that we are in a cap crunch?), what do you think teams will ask from us to take 4m of our books (for 3 years!!!) in Garland? People just somehow magically have us getting rid of money and term with little or no pain. You're seriously dreaming if you don't think we're in a cap crunch.